Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Bandos really does set the heinous standard for the work. Lucien might qualify if there wasn't already someone more evil than him.

Bandos

Well, none of the other Mahjarrat were sad to see him gone...granted, the morality of the Mahjarrat varies between each one, but during the ritual most of them wanted Lucien to be the sacrifice instead of Jhallan.

I'll help solidify Bandos with another , and a for the Colonel too. On the fence about Cerdic.

Unlike Bandos, who was always sane and intelligent in his plans if sometimes overconfident, Lucien came across as genuinely insane near the end of his life. Whether or not that truly disqualifies him from being a CM, he easily comes across as the closest to a GDV of any of the Runescape bad guys. I was originally going to talk about both but chose Bandos since he was the more dangerous and grandiose in his sheer evil.

edited 8th Feb '15 4:38:24 PM by LoreDeluxe

Do you have any thoughts on Lord Iorwerth? I never finished his quest line but going by the Wiki he sounds pretty awful.

to Bandos, Cedric and the Colonel.

I think I got enough votes to do a write up on Black Manta:

• Justice League: Throne of Atlantis: Black Manta is the main assistant to Orm. Black Manta readily assists Orm with his plan to start a war between Atlantis and the rest of the world, by slaughtering Atlantean civilians in sea craft that is disguised to look like a US military sub. Near the end of the film, Black Manta revealed he has been manipulating Orm into starting a genocidal war with the surface world, claiming that the war was his idea. Black Manta ultimately plans to kill Orm and take the riches of Atlantis for himself.

edited 8th Feb '15 9:12:54 PM by Overlord

@Hamburgertime: It turns out Lord Iowerth was an Unwitting Pawn to the Dark Lord (the evil side of Seren, go figure). Also, he was very pathetic at the time of his death so he doesn't count.

That's 6 for Bandos so I'm going to make the finishing touches on his write up, mainly try to trim it down.

Neither of those are necessarily a disqualifier, but it sounds like he's ultimately kind of a wuss.

Also, Word of God says we'll finally see Lord Drakan this year. Given what he's done to his kingdom I could see him qualifying.

Here is the write up for Bandos. If you have any suggestions, please say so.

Runescape: Bandos, The Big High War God, is an omnicidal god of war and a true believer in Might Makes Right and War is Glorious. As a mortal, Bandos murdered his father, usurping control of his tribe and leading them in a campaign of destruction against the rest of his people. He murders a child after promising not to if they told him where to find their world's god, Jodoku Otoku. Bandos happily murders the sleeping god despite knowing its death would lead to the extinction of all life on his homeworld through meteors. Now a god, he traveled to the world of Yu'biusk, homeworld of goblins, orks, and orges, and transformed its inhabitants from peaceful hunter-gatherers to a brutish horde to serve as his soldiers, worshipers, and playthings. Marching his new army to the world of Gielinor, he ecstatically led to battle during the cataclysmic God Wars. Constantly betraying his allies and spreading wanton slaughter, Bandos fought simply for the thrill of war. Eventually banished from Gielinor by Guthix at the end of the Third Age, Bandos took the frustration out on his remaining followers on Yu'biusk. He manipulated the remaining tribes into waging a war of total annihilation that turned Yu'biusk into a lifeless wasteland, just like his Bandos' homeworld. In an attempt to return to Gielinor, he made Zanik, a member of a tribe of goblins that rebelled against him, into his Chosen Commander and lead his followers to wage total war on the rest of the world. Despite failing yet again, he does return following the death of Guthix with the intentions of killing the others gods and claiming the Stone of Jas and use its power to wage endless war across the universe. Bandos ultimately fails and is killed, but his evil dogma is so ingrained in his followers that they continue to war bloody war in his name. Hated and feared by mortals and gods alike, Bandos perfectly represents everything that can go wrong when a mortal ascends to godhood.

Edit: I removed most of the links. What can I cut to make it shorter?

edited 8th Feb '15 7:14:35 PM by LoreDeluxe

Wall of Text alert. BTW, does Bandos knock Sigmund out?
Like the X Men stuff.
Chidin for now.
Black Manta looks good, just get rid of "in this film", make it The Starscream (the second S isn't capitalized), and I think rest of the world (right now it's "rest world"). That and Eric rewrite can be submitted Tuesday. I just requested the other stuff.

edited 8th Feb '15 7:08:29 PM by ACW

Uuuh, put some of those wicks in brackets.

edited 8th Feb '15 7:00:32 PM by HamburgerTime

Bandos has done a lot of terrible shit and I'm not sure what I can cut without making him seem less monstrous. As for Sigmund, Bandos is the true Big Bad of the storyline Sigmund appears in, so maybe?

I don't think Bandos blots out Sigmund. For one, they have the exact opposite goal, with Sigmund wanting to slaughter the Goblins and Bandos wanting to lead the Goblins to slaughter everyone else, and for two, there's a massive scale difference (small-time cult leader vs Physical God).

In comparison, my current article on Bandos is 18 lines whereas the one for Morgoth from The Silmarillion is 16 lines. If I cut out 2 or 3 lines of text, will that be enough?

As of the most recent chapter this month, is Dr. Gedouin from Blue Exorcist ok for CM? Just asking, but i can write up a detailed statement of his crimes, if needed. EDIT: here goes...

Dr Gedouin: Who is he? Gedouin is a completely amoral Mad Scientist under the employ of Lucifer and the Illuminati. He is first seen in a flashback of Izumo Kamiki's past. Both the flashback and the present day present him as a sadistic, arrogant man who relishes every ounce of pain he inflicts upon others for the sake of pleasing Lucifer.

What does he do? When Izumo's mother Tamamo was possessed by the Nine-Tailed Fox demon, after subduing her the Illuminati abducted Tamamo, Izumo, and Izumo's (then two years old) sister Tsukumo. At the Illuminati's laboratory, Gedouin subjected Tamamo to endless painful experiments in pursuit of the Illuminati's research on the Elixir of Immortality, keeping the sisters as backup if Tamamo didn't produce results. Ten days after the capture, when another member of the organization grew a conscience and tried and failed to let Izumo escape (after successfully sending Tsukumo into the True Cross Order's protection), Gedouin punished said traitor by injecting her with an imperfect elixir of life, laughing manically at her death throes. After this he told Izumo that he would track down Tsukumo and use her as the next subject of his experiments if she didn't obey his orders.

In the present day, after the Illuminati makes their presence known to the world and recaptures Izumo, Gedouin reintroduces himself by presenting her mother, who has been reduced to an emaciated, banadaged shell by years of being picked apart by his experiments. And when tests show that Izumo has a more than 99% chance of dying if she attempts to assimilate the Fox, Gedouin demands to continue with the possesion experiment to avoid displeasing Lucifer. After the heroes storm the lab to rescue Izumo, he confronts them and gleefully reveals that the zombies that have been set upon them are tourists that were lured to the town surrounding the Illuminati headquarters and used as sacrificial lambs for his failed elixir experiments. When Rin asks him how he can experiment on fellow humans, he has the gall to employ a Humans Are the Real Monsters argument, saying that since humans slaughter other animals to live, slaughtering humans to further his research is only fair. In the next 2 chapters, Gedouin uses a device to force Izumo to take in the Nine-Tailed Fox, and as it starts destroying her body, he laughs that there is no longer any value in her life and tells her to die for his sake. Two more chapters later, after Tamamo regained her senses and sacrifices herself to save Izumo from the fox, as the others crouch around her body Gedouin screams that hundreds of people are born and die everyday, so mourning the death of 'one old hag' was useless, before using his own device to turn himself into a monster to try and kill the group.

Does he have a Freudian Excuse or other sympathetic qualities? Not in the least. In fact, even For Science! does not apply to his actions. It is made clear at several points that he has absolutely no ability to empathize with the suffering of others and that every atrocity he commits is towards the goal of receiving Lucifer's praise and nothing else.

Closing Words: Definitely worthy of the spot. Nobody else in the series has displayed depravity enough to match his (yet, at least).

edited 8th Feb '15 8:54:27 PM by Toivoa

Removed a few lines from near the beginning and near the end. Does this look better? At 15 lines, its officially shorter than Morgoth's section, and this much text is understandable since its for one of the main villains from an MMO with lots of backstory.

Runescape: Bandos, The Big High War God, is an omnicidal god of war and a true believer in Might Makes Right and War is Glorious. As a mortal, Bandos happily murders the sleeping god, Jodoku Otoku, despite knowing its death would lead to the extinction of all life on his homeworld. Now a god, he traveled to the world of Yu'biusk, homeworld of goblins, orks, and orges, and transformed its inhabitants from peaceful hunter-gatherers to a brutish horde to serve as his soldiers, worshipers, and playthings. Marching his new army to the world of Gielinor, he ecstatically led them to battle during the cataclysmic God Wars. Constantly betraying his allies and spreading wanton slaughter, Bandos fought simply for the thrill of war. Eventually banished from Gielinor by Guthix at the end of the Third Age, Bandos took his frustration out on his remaining followers on Yu'biusk. He manipulated the remaining tribes into waging a war of total annihilation that turned Yu'biusk into a lifeless wasteland, just like his Bandos' homeworld. In an attempt to return to Gielinor, he made Zanik, a member of the tribe of goblins that rebelled against him, into his Chosen Commander to lead his followers to wage total war on the rest of the world. Despite failing yet again, he returns following the death of Guthix with the intentions of killing the others gods and claiming the Stone of Jas and use its power to wage endless war across the universe. Hated and feared by mortals and gods alike, Bandos perfectly represents everything that can go wrong when a mortal ascends to godhood.

edited 8th Feb '15 8:01:09 PM by LoreDeluxe

@ 35273 ACW, okay, how does it look now?

I just realised something paradoxical about the Complete Monster trope in general.

If a character chose to become the monster that he is, then that must mean that there was some point in his life, however brief, when he WASN'T completely evil (after all, you cannot "choose" to "become" something that you already are). If that's the case, then it means that he DID at one point have the POTENTIAL for good and is therefore not a COMPLETE Monster. And is therefore illegible.

Paradoxically however: If the character was %100 pure soulless evil right from the start, that would mean he was BORN that way. But if he was born with no capacity for kindness or empathy, then it wasn't really his choice. Thus making him Made of Evil and thus illegible to be a Complete Monster.

Nope. "Having had a potential to not be evil at some time in the past" is not a disqualifying criteria. Complete Monster isn't about what they used to be, or about what they could have been if things had been different. It's about what they are.

Also, "born with no capacity for kindness or empathy" is not the same as Made of Evil ("The bad guys aren't just bad, they are Bad! The concentrated, physical manifestation of it to be precise. ... Somehow, the villain's physical body is made up of a tangible form of Evil.... These villains are, unsurprisingly, not human; or at least, not anymore. They may be an Anthropomorphic Personification of Evil, a God of Evil that is made up of their portfolio rather than an organic/'divine' being in control of it, a Pure Energy Being made of The Dark Side, or the Ultimate Evil. Normal humans can become Made Of Evil if they spend years being really evil and get dosed with Phlebotinum.")

edited 9th Feb '15 3:11:40 AM by Madrugada

Exactly. It's what they are currently (look at Griffith/Femto: started good, then BECAME a CM).

So quite a few pages back I proposed that we cut Sascha Vykos from the Vampire: The Masquerade page and was opposed by Lightysnake, who is probably the only other person here familiar with the source material. It wasn't that much of a priority so I let it go, but now that I've gotten another VTM 20 book that I've decided to bring him up again.

To give the short of it Sascha Vykos is a vampire from the Tzimisce clan whose thing is using their unique abilities to fleshcraft people into anything that strikes their fancy (but most commonly ends with And I Must Scream scenarios for the victim). Vykos is the signature character for the clan and gets a lot of screen time because of that. Now Lightysnake pointed out that Vykos was head and shoulders worse than the rest of it's clan but from reading the latest stuff I can't see that. The Tzimisce in the latest supplements routinely craft their victims into objects (a long tapestry with every thread formerly being a vampire and a set of books made out of vampires, in both cases the victims fully aware of what's happening to them), the faction most of them are apart of revel in being inhuman monsters making games out of torturing and brutalising humans, and the setting itself being incredibly dark in terms of what happens there. I honestly don't think Vykos makes the cut, but since Lightysnake seems more familiar with the character than I I'll let him identify it's full acts so we can establish if it qualifies or not.

edited 9th Feb '15 3:52:20 AM by Shaoken

Is Redd White from Ace Attorney valid for Complete Monster. He blackmails and ruins the lives of people for money and his entertainment, has not regret for anything he's done, shown no sympathetic traits, and very clearly shows his lack of regard for other people.

most of his blackmail is offscreen. Onscreen, he blackmails Grossberg, kills Mia, frames Maya, punches Phenox, is indicated to have driven someone to suicide, falsly accuses Phenox of Mia's murder, and acts like a [[Jerkass]]. Certainly a nasty guy, but Von Karma is far worse.