During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Honestly...I'm not sure what to do here. If it wasn't in the film itself that'd make things a lot easier.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Jihn's comic probably has something. We can combine the pic of him being happy with the settlement bombing. With him actually doing it or the aftermath
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Komodo.
I'll get Lim Dul written up later tonight, but for now I'm thinking it might be worth splitting the current list between planeswalkers and non-planeswalkers. It's the central concept of the setting so I figure it would be worth making the differentiation.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
RIP Toriyama
Can we just use the "note" function to clarify that the word "Gypsie" is not accepted as a modern-day terminology and is exclusively the term the films use? Like "gypsies note ? So like this:
- Judge Claude Frollo, the fanatical Minister of Justice, is a deeply prejudiced and hypocritical official who seeks to totally exterminate the gypsies note scattered around Paris. Frollo introduces himself by murdering a fleeing mother and nearly drowning her infant child for the crime of being deformed. With the archdeacon's intervention instilling the fear of divine retribution in him, Frollo dubbed the child Quasimodo and raised him in isolation under emotional abuse. Deeply enraptured with the gypsy Esmeralda, Frollo resolves to make Esmeralda his or watch her burn, offering "choose me or the fire" when she's tied to the stake. Frollo has gigantic sections of Paris burned in his further attempt to find the gypsies; orders a family torched alive in their own house; and even tries to murder Quasimodo himself in the end after having seemingly murdered Esmeralda, forsaking all piety to reveal the monster he's always been within.
Edited by Ravok on Jan 17th 2022 at 4:14:51 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The wifi here sucks
There is an image of Jihn blowing up the settlement:
This is a page before the above one:
Also couple more images from Jhin:
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jan 17th 2022 at 3:26:11 PM
Goku Black
Oh uh someone tweaked the Voleth Mair entry.
Though uh Is Francesca's baby a boy or girl. As they changed son to daughter.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I don't like changing "murders numerous" to "kills several" (either works), but the gender of the baby is a factual thing.
Ravok, mind making that change at the YMMV; at Monster: Disney; and requesting the change here? Just change "films" to "film's" Also, I'd make it "Roma/Romani"
Edited by ACW on Jan 17th 2022 at 7:42:34 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Imperfect Disgrace
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Komodo.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Komodo.
On YMMV.Spy X Family, ~Tropers/narm00 changed the name of the arc on Snoops' CM entry without consulting the thread. It is called the Princess Lorelei Cruise Arc in English, last I checked.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I messaged them already. And ACW added the original entry, so I think I am in the clear.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 17th 2022 at 7:51:35 AM
Rawr.
Goku Black
Just politely PM them to tell them that if they're unaware. So we don't have an edit war or anything.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Um...shit, it looks like it IS daughter?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Just change that on the main page. We can revert the other change but since that one is true. Let's fix it on the main monster page.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
So, several things:
I don't really mind changing the entry for Frollo so it's...not an open slur, while still preserving the thrust of the entry. If we'd changed old terms for trans people, I kinda think we oughta do the same here? Also, Francesca's kid might've been a daughter. Mea culpa, I forgot!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And requested.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to the Jhin images and Ravoks idea
I don't mind Rav's idea but personally I'd prefer to flip it— use the modern term that isn't a slur as the main descriptor and then have the note instead be adding that the outdated "Gypsy" is used as the term in the film itself.
I think it gets the same message across and lets the term show up less, but that's just me.
Edited by Riley1sCool on Jan 17th 2022 at 5:31:14 AM
I mean yeah, it's said in the movie and everyone uses it. That said, whichever one fits better will work.
RIP Toriyama
The sole reason I figured we'd wanna use "gypsy" throughout the entry is because, for better or worse, that's what the film uses and at no point does the film itself use the word necessarily as a slur as much as an, at the time, all-encompassing title for the group Frollo is targeting, but if we'd prefer to use Roma/Romani and just use the "note" function to specify the film uses "gypsy" (as per Riley's suggestion), I'm more than cool with it. It's more "meta" than most of our entries get, but for this case I can make that exception.
Edited by Ravok on Jan 17th 2022 at 5:50:58 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Goku Black
There was a Ask The Tropers thread which decided what to do but I can't remember what came of it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
Speaking of slurs:
- Snatch.: "Brick Top" Pulford is a ruthless underground fight promoter with a penchant for Disproportionate Retribution. Brick Top is introduced having a traitor, as well as the one who reported the traitor to him, tasered, suffocated with plastic bags, dismembered, and Fed to Pigs. When a gang of Yardies rob his bookkeepers, he attempts to murder them, only releasing them when they promise to give him a diamond they have stolen, giving them 48 hours to give him said diamond. When Turkish informs Brick Top about the demands their fighter, a Traveller named Mickey, is making, Brick Top has Turkish's slot machines vandalized, and has Mickey's mother burned to death in her caravan. Subsequently, Brick Top threatens to massacre Mickey's entire clan if he doesn't throw the fight.
The film uses the slur "Pikey" almost exclusively when referring to the Travellers. What should we do about that?
So why are we making an exception for Notre Dame? Why don't we just remove the slur entirely.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 17th 2022 at 9:03:36 AM
Rawr.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Well, the write-up never referred to them as that to begin with. Can't we just leave it altogether, since it links to Irish Travellers anyway?
I agree with Rav that it's not treated as a slur in the world of the movie itself. I'm happy to accept whatever the thread decides though.
Professor Gigachad
- It's a Kid's World: These two villains showcase how much Darker and Edgier this Series Fic is.
- Lord Viribus, posing as Boris Durvil, the last living adult. It is revealed that Viribus, along with David, were the ones behind the "big vanish" to eliminate all adults so there would only be defenceless children behind. Viribus then plans to lead an army of robots and zombies to kill off all the remaining humans and place the strongest people into robot bodies to rebirth the world into a brand new species of humans. Attempting to undermine any efforts to reverse it, when Lisa Loud finds out about this plan, he kidnaps her and plans to use her as insurance. Viribus begins his "human harvest" by massacring an entire village full of people and converting the rest into zombie slaves. These children are subjected to excruciating pain while unable to do anything. Viribus also had a failsafe in place, so that if his plans failed, the attempt to bring the adults back would send out one final shockwave that would wipe out everyone on Earth, including himself. When Viribus found out about David's betrayal, he took him away to be tortured for information, which later killed him. Viribus later kills one of Ronnie Anne's tigers and nearly kills Lola, and then converts the tiger into one of his slaves.
- Chester Bundy appears to be a normal kid who wants to help others at first, but later reveals himself to be a brutal sadist who enjoys Cold-Blooded Torture.Chester disagrees with how many people he is letting into their society, so he grabs a kid and slowly and painfully tortures him until finally executing him by crucifixion. Chester also now plans to expand their society even further, showing no care about the possibility of many people dying from this. When Chester is dismissed twice, he convinces his followers to overthrow the committee, which he does with little effort. Chester quickly gets to work, taking over the other side of Royal Woods, not caring about the casualties. When Chester finds out that Lincoln and the Morticians Guard are planning to overthrow him, he captures them. Chester would brutally torture Lincoln before crucifying him, to set an example. Chester later tells Lucy exactly what he did to her brother before torturing her by cutting out one of her eyes. When several prisoners try to escape, Chester decides to kill them all, believing that he hasn't given them enough punishment.
Yes to Komodo
For the record I changed Frollo back (mostly because I noticed other changes to the wording) but I'm also open to figuring out what to do about that kind of slur.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon