During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Because I misread the post. Go for it on the alternate.
The Emperor of Evil!
You know what, heck with it, I'll do him anyway and see what ya'll think. Also thanks 43 and Kazuya for lending on your opinion.
What's The Work?
Brought this one up before so I'll just copy and paste what I wrote on Ollo's proposal
Planet of The Apes is a 1990 24 issue comic series by Malibu Graphics, following Alexander, grandson of Caesar himself, struggling with the burden of leading Ape City. He and his allies also has to face The Aldonites, followers of Aldo, evil mutants, alien invaders etc. It al also has side stories with different characters, and a crossover with Alien Nation called Ape Nation.
Now Ollo is the Overarching Villain and the overall Big Bad, but let's talk about the final villain who's an old enemy who returned after years of being dead....
Who's Governor Breck?
The Big Bad from Conquest (being deemed as "Pure Evil" in universe) returning for the last four issues, after years being dead, was later resurrected by a cult who sought to usurp the apes and return humanity back the dominate species. The only issue? To Breck, they do not look human at all considering their mutation, thus he massacres them all by using his now godlike powers to disintegrating all of them, including the most human one. Claiming he shall purify the world by wiping out all that is not human, and should he not find a single human to rule over? He'll just destroy every and burn the world into a dark cinder.
Going out on a killing spree across the land, Breck begins his ape genocide by killing off all of the forgotten apes horribly and then continues to kill all in his path. Burning down homes and entire villages in his path, even killing all of Ollo's army and snapping Ollo's neck. The Governor spared no ape in his path, not even recurring characters including the Ape Riders and heroes. The Governor gains human followers to assist him in his "Final Conquest", planning to destroy all of Ape City with the goal of either enslaving all of the Apes or completely eradicate them all.
Now leading the army of humans, once the heroes resurrects the equally powerful spirit of Ceasar AKA The Lawgiver, he and the Governor make one final dual to save the world. Despite being given an offer of piece between humans and ape by Alexander, how he'll feed and clothe them and help give them homes so they'll be equals, all Breck does in response was "The only reason I let you live this long... Is that you've provided a much needed laughing!"
Breck gets attacked from behind by Caesar, demanding to be let go, in a fit of rage the Governor threaten to completely destroy the entire land out of spite, only to be defeated by being dragged in a portal that trapped both him and The Lawgiver, ending his reign of tower once and for all.
Mitigating Factors
Already brought this up. Back when I proposed Ollo, I wasn't sure if Breck counted, I guess none of these are mitigating.
Governor preaches of wanting to restore the human race to their former glory by enslavement and genocide of the apes and acts as if he cares for them. However, he's the same old bigoted supremacist he was in the films but given a massive god complex, always boasting about human supremacy and using his powers to gain human followers to help get his revenge on the Apes and rule the human race as a god like figure. How he'll being the one to govern humanity, to rule over them with his own laws and teachings, how they should listen and follow his command.
Now despite his claims, his final moment of him threatening to "destroy the whole land", no mentioned of going to spare any humans when he does so (hell he killed the most human guy of the cult who resurrected him who was clearly the most human looking guy among them, basically showing himself to be an Omnicidal Maniac, I don't see how he's a Well-Intentioned Extremist. Like Kaz said, bigoted in action, not genuine care for his fellow man.
Heinous Standards
Ollo (who already keeps) sets the standards high, several mass murders, mass crucifixion and torture, several Bad Boss moments, attempted genocide, torture, and had led horrible human and ape experiments on their vocal cords (his men included as punishment) and trying to off his son, then leading an alien invasion that wipes entire villages in the name of conquest.
Then there's s Dr. Moto, the scientist who helped Ollo and lead the horrible experiments on apes, humans, and living animals, killing the faithful companion of one of the main characters through decapitation for experiments and hypnotizing her to forget and still carries out heinous Playing with Syringes moments For Science! after Ollo got usurped. He doesn't count because in one issue which was his last appearance, he kills himself out of remorse for what he has done, generally Affably Evil, and had a moment of being a Well-Intentioned Extremist as he tried to find a cure to stop a deadly disease one time with no hint of any ulterior motives.
Breck is possibly the most heinous, attempting a full scale genocide of apes should he not enslave them by going on a killing spree, burning villages to the ground, and being a Hero Killer killing several important characters, and threaten if not planned to destroy the entire world making him an overall Omnicidal Maniac and the only one in this comic series and quite possibly rank up the highest bodycount in the whole comic next to Ollo.
Final Verdict
I'll leave the verdict up to you to decide.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Dec 8th 2021 at 11:47:55 AM
Imperfect Disgrace
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Pishtaco and Breck.
to Breck
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Professor Gigachad
Yes to Breck.
The Moron
Alright, so I checked out that SVU episode "Exchange" that ACW and Mir mentioned a few days back, and fuck it, let's give its bad guy a try.
Who is Richard Matthews? What does he do?
Richard Matthews serves as a foster parent for a foreign exchange program with his wife Mary, taking in young girls in the new country to help them along their paths. In reality, he's not only a child rapist, but also a child pornographer, as he would record himself raping the students so that he could watch it later - and just as a fucking kick in the teeth, he'd make his wife watch him as he did it, even forcing her to applaud his performances when he was done. He'd also occasionally pimp the girls out to other men, sometimes multiple men at once, and record that as well. Before the episode begins, he's already done/attempted to do this to seven girls, all teenagers.
In the backstory of the episode, he set his sights on the Italian Baressi twins. After ingratiating himself to them, Matthews convinced them that their father was raping them, coaching them through the process of not only accusing their father of the rape but that their mother was an accomplice and driving them entirely into his waiting arms. After bringing them to America, Matthews spent years performing his routine on them, raping and molesting them at his leisure all while they had no idea what he was doing was a crime due to his grooming - he also prostituted Emilia to two men, which he recorded for his own use.
Due to Emilia being raped by a completely unrelated man one night, the SVU detectives close in on him fast and confront him. In his home (where his wife has a noticeable black eye), he insists that what he did with his girls wasn't a crime, but was, in fact, beautiful and that he loved the girls because they were beautiful and different from each other - in the same sentence, he disparages his wife because she had her day already, proving just how hollow it is. However, when Carisi goes to put the cuffs on him, Matthews struggles away and jumps right over the railing of his apartment, killing himself.
Lara, the other twin, is so shocked and confused by his death that she overdoses on meds, but luckily the SVU detectives manage to save her and reunite the sisters with their mother, hoping to bring together the family that Matthews tore apart.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
So let's talk about his final scene for a second.
His claim that he loves the girls is ridiculously hollow so I'm not worried about that - he admits that he loves them because they're all beautiful and different, and in the same sentence disparages his wife because "she had her day", so at best he'll drop them like a hot brick soon enough. Similarly, his claim that what he did wasn't wrong and was, in fact, "beautiful" is undercut when he commits Spiteful Suicide and nothing else suggests that he genuinely can't comprehend right from wrong, especially when he makes a big show of being concerned for Emilia's wellbeing after she gets raped by someone else.
There's only one thing that gives me pause - when Carisi goes to arrest him, he asks Matthews what age he was when he was first abused, and Matthews does seem to pause. However, he doesn't get the chance to answer because his wife finally grows a spine, and a minute later Matthews jumps over the railing instead, and ultimately, the question is just that - a question. The show doesn't take the issue any further than that, and it doesn't present him as a victim repeating the abuse done to him (a la many people both on this show and others like Criminal Minds) but as a fucked up dude riding a power high. Carisi does ask the question, but between the lack of an answer and the otherwise disregard for the question afterward, I don't think the implication that he was abused is strong enough to make him a victim.
Ultimately, I think he clears it here, but if someone else would like to watch and offer their thoughts, feel free to.
Is he heinous enough?
Even in a show like SVU, nine attempted victims, all of whom were teens, where he would rape them, record him doing it, pimp them out to others and record that, framing a man for rape so that he can groom and rape his daughters while they have no idea he's raping them, and forcing his wife to watch and applaud him is pretty fucked up for a one-shot. Personally, I don't think this one is the issue.
Final verdict?
Solid maybe. His ending gives me pause, but I don't think they take it far enough to be disqualifying. What say you?
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 7th 2021 at 11:22:38 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
to Richard Matthews
to Richard Matthews
to Breck and Richard Masters
Edited by eruptor142 on Dec 7th 2021 at 11:23:45 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Breck and Rich
Yea there. Got my booster, btw. Maybe a bit...oout of it here.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Feel better Lighty.
Not sure I saw that episode—though the title's familiar certainly—so yeah, based on the EP, to Matthews.
Professor Gigachad
By the way, the person that made the proposal for General Hayden White still hasn't done the writeup so I decided to handle it myself hope it looks good.
- Nora's Life: General Hayden White is the abusive general of the kingdom of Atlas. White shows how vile he is when he refuses to evacuate villages from a Grimm, all for the sake of his ego. White is also a Serial Rapist who regularly rapes the women in the villages he was supposed to protect and kills them afterwards. White attempted to do the same to Nora's mother and force Nora to watch out of pure sadism. When they escape, White allows Nora's village to be destroyed to cover up his crimes and murders any of his men that get in his way. When confronted by Nora, he admits that he doesn't even remember what happened.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Pishtaco, Breck, and Richard.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Breck & Richie
Feel well soon Lighty
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
2nd one is good
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 7th 2021 at 9:52:30 AM
Professor Gigachad
I have two new possible images for Straxus.
The Draftsman of Doom
Leaning yes to Breck and Matthews.
Feels good, don't it?
Waingro, Skeletor, Skeletor, Magnussen, Bahavos, Pishtaco, Breck and Matthews
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Waingro,Both Skeletors, Charles, Bahavos, Pishtaco, Breck and Matthews
Any opinions on these images? They're of a one shot CM from the Thor comics.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Richard
Get well light.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Pishtaco and Breck.
Matthews...if the show doesn't examine the question beyond that, then I see no reason for us to. So sure to him as well.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to the Pishtaco, Breck and Matthews.
Sure to Pishtaco.