During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I already cut the entry so you just need to alert Super Sonic Heroes and Contador 818 they seemed to be the ones who wrote the entries
Dark Crystal
Another unapproved Complete Monster pothole I found, this time on Super Zeroes regarding Malchemical from The Boys. I cut the pothole and linked to the thread. Anyone who's interested can do an EP on him if they want.
- The Boys: Superduper is a team of severely underpowered heroes infiltrated by Hughie, many of which have some kind of Ambiguous Disorder or are outright mentally retarded. Where pretty much all other supers are smug, entitled, hedonistic assholes (or smug, entitled, hedonistic sociopaths and criminals), Superduper basically goes too far the other way. The only one with real powers is Malchemical (who gets reassigned to them after committing rape by fraud on a teammate's girlfriend), and he quickly establishes his Complete Monster cred.
Found an error: on Music, Slayer is listed twice
The first:
- Slayer's "Angel of Death", from Reign in Blood: The titular Angel of Death, infamous Nazi doctor Josef Mengele, is a "sadist of the noblest blood, destroying, without mercy, to benefit the Aryan race". This "infamous butcher" conducts all sorts of hideous, torturous, brutal experiments on the "human mice" at Auschwitz.
The second:
- Slayer:
- "Angel of Death", from Reign in Blood: The titular Angel of Death, infamous Nazi doctor Josef Mengele, is a "sadist of the noblest blood, destroying, without mercy, to benefit the Aryan race". This "infamous butcher" conducts all sorts of hideous, torturous, brutal experiments on the "human mice" at Auschwitz.
- "Unit 781": Dr. Shiro Ishii is tasked with making bioweapons for Imperial Japan. To do this, he sets up a base in occupied Manchuria and starts infecting civilians to watch them die. Ishii's curiosity leads to him expanding his scientific goals and testing even more weapons on his victims, including air pressure, fire and radiation. He also vivisects people alive, including infants, to study their organs. Throughout all of this, Ishii is filled with glee and shows zero regret.
We need to cut the first version
Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 29th 2020 at 9:01:22 AM
I recently played through the entirety of Red Dead Redemption 2 for the first time and began to wonder why the serial killer Edmond Lowry Jr wasn't a candidate and then I looked up all the pages of discussion. Like 3 or 4 times he is brought up and some people down vote because of potential insanity issues, but even more people seemed to vote yes, but every single time the discussion seems to peter out with nothing resolved. Since I feel like there's not much point in trying to relitigate him, I'm instead going to propose a cut from the original with the new heinous standard.
So, I formally propose we cut Randall Forrester from the first game as Lowry seems to be literally worse than him in every way. I went and looked up the actual sidequest with Forrester and the most we see onscreen of his victims is a blood puddle and some bones, and the only on screen victims include a woman, child, and potentially the man Marston may wind up delivering to him. In the 2nd game, Lowry's victims are shown in a far more visceral manner with strung up limbless torsos and impaled severed heads in the several areas he uses to mockingly leave clues to his location. His lair is further shown with many more brutalized corpses, and the fact that he begins cutting up Arthur while still alive indicates he tortures his victims before killing them. Not only are the victims of Lowry shown in a far more visceral light than Forrester's, Lowry also has a far higher on screen body count of least a dozen victims as compared to Forrester's two or three. This is also not even getting into how a few of the gangs, namely the Murfree Brood, Skinner Brothers, and Night Folk, are shown to brutally kill and torture men, women, and children. All in all, Forrester really pales in comparison to what is on display in the 2nd game, explicitly being far outclassed by Lowry even on an individual level.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Yeah, that's a fair point.
The issue with Lowry? His mother.
Edit: You know what? I'm not going to bog down the thread by reopening an old discussion. I'm simply moving to cut Randall Forrester for flunking the standard compared to Lowry.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jun 29th 2020 at 9:23:36 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.My last word on it is Lowry is based another character (maybe a descendant) who loved his mom, and he passed up a marriage to stock close to his mom
Here are my write-ups on Deathstroke and Dr. Meles:
- Batman fanfic Breaking You: Deathstroke is an assassin who has felt humiliated by his previous defeats by Batman and makes a deal with the Court of Owls to make Nightwing their apprentice, in which he plans to betray them by stealing Nightwing as his sole heir. He begins by physically assaulting Nightwing and later kidnapping Damien Wayne, putting the latter through torture in the process. Deathstroke later captures Nightwing and forces him whether to kill Damien or Tarantula, in which Deathstroke takes pleasure when Nightwing accidentally kills the latter through immolation. When the Bat Family comes to rescue both of them, Deathstroke threatens to kill Batman and every Robin to punish Nightwing for his "disobedience".
- Zootopia fanfic Zootopia: A New Adventure: Dr. Meles is a scientist who plans to take over Zootopia by releasing the rabies virus from Earth on to the city and create widespread destruction. When his partner, Arctos, begins to doubt his plan, Meles infects him with the rabies virus as his "first test subject" and abandons him on Earth, since he's no longer useful to him. Upon capturing Luke Barrett, Meles has him tortured whenever he raises his voice, which includes having his polar bear guards cut him and place hot coals on his body.
Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 29th 2020 at 9:34:19 AM
Still, I would argue that cannibalism is unique for the Red Dead verse (granted I’ve yet to play the second game).
Thanks for the info. Looks like Forrester's a cut then.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 29th 2020 at 10:58:10 AM
"No running in the halls!"All three gangs I mentioned above, Murfree Brood, the Skinner Brothers, and the Night Folk, are shown to indulge in cannibalism. Hell, one mission near the end of the game has you rescue a character as he is being cooked alive by the Skinner Brothers.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Sad cut for Randall
Things are really about to get Fun around hereSee ya' Forrester.
Dark Crystal.
Anyone reserved that nice cage flick Wallys Wonderland?
My friend told me about it...
"The synopsis for this movie is as follows: "A drifter is tricked into a janitorial job at a condemned theme park. The mundane tasks suddenly become a fight for survival against wave after wave of demonic animatronic monsters"
Hollywood is REALLY making use of the rejected FNAF scripts"
So I'm...interested in it.
Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 29th 2020 at 8:24:04 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereto Randall Forrester.
Was actually interested in reserving it after I did the Banana Splits horror movie, but sure. Go ahead.
So a B-movie where Nic Cage battles demonic carnival animatronics?
Sold.
"No running in the halls!"Cut Forrester.
Cut forester I guess
So, I checked the discussion dates page, and while I knew that Tyk is no longer going to author discussion for The Last of Us Part II, I noticed that no one else reserved discussion for the game (or at least, no one added their name to the discussion page).
Since I've completed the game, I was wondering if I could reserve discussion.
Forrester
Okay:
- Dark Crystal.
- Nattes: What papyru said. Crow only has 2 film examples, so it's also at the main film page. Dick Tracy and Die Hard have 3 each.
- Hmm, if it were JUST Lowry, I'd let it go. But it seems Forrester's outheinoused by NUMEROUS characters. I'm fine with cutting.
- I swear, it seems like we've had 3 or 4 different people claim TLOU 2
Me and lighty were the ones that took interest in ‘’Last Of Us Part II’’
Or at the very least we both have points we want to get across with the game. It’s conflicted. Feels as though the whole argument I had for the game was demolished.
Edited by UltimateDemonBeast65 on Jun 30th 2020 at 3:31:39 AM
No, please cut those entry's and PM the people that posted them and ask to bring the characters up here please.
EDIT: Actually, I'll take care of it.
Thank you
Edited by papyru30 on Jun 29th 2020 at 8:25:28 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon