Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Galvin and Mike
To Galvin and Mike. The latter sounds fun, I'll look into watching it later
Ok, Lighty.
I'll wait until Monday for anything else, but would it be possible to post both of my next two characters that same day (but not the same hour)? Looking at the rules, I don't actually see anything about one post per day even though other tropers said that in the thread.
Edited by Melinda on Jan 20th 2023 at 12:31:55 PM
The Moron
The "one per day" thing was effectively a "gentlemen's agreement" we made on the Restart thread for the first week or so to make sure the threads didn't get clogged. We're not following it precisely because it's not an official rule, but it's helping to mitigate some of the chaos of the reopening.
What Star said: I get you're excited but this is a team effort and we want room for everyone. Please don't take guesses made by me to be concrete proof of how far you can go defining the "one work" thing and I think to further said "gentlemen's agreement" we could do with not pushing to use the addendum to the two active works rule to try and get as many posts up as we can. Patience please, I know you've been waiting but everyone has and we're all excited to get back to putting things we've worked hard on up.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Mike.
Yes to Galvin and a big one to Mike as well!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Galvin, Mike
Am I good for Tulius' writeup? The pending says on the 20th at 9:46am but timezones and that lmao.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
- My Life as a Teenage Robot's "Puppet Bride": Lil' Acorn was originally a young Nora Wakeman's defense droid she turned into a ventriloquist's dummy, but he grew prideful and blackmailed her for a chance at a solo performance. Booed by the crowed, and running out of batteries after attacking the angry mob, Lil' Acorn seeks revenge in the present after being revived, doing so by stealing Nora's bioprocessors and using them to bring an army of puppets to life. Seeking to make Jenny his bride, Lil' Acorn and his puppets manage to knock her out so he can unveil the wedding ring — one of the bioprocessors, which would give him total control over her — and he holds Nora back with "The Song That Goes On Forever" as a last resort. Despite his villainy, Lil' Acorn's yearning for a bride eventually convinces Nora to make one, for which he sincerely thanks her.
Bye
Galvin, Mike
I find it kinda weird how only “serial killer” and “his liver” are spoilered on Ghatanothoa’s writeup. Are those really the only specific things considered spoilers?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I'm out atm so when I get back I'll deal with Tulius' writeup but 43 do you mind not doing the swap for The Elder Scrolls until I propose the other 2 civil war candidates bud? They'll be my pair after Violent Night.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I can get that tomorrow!
Misread lmao. I’ll hold off tomorrow ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by 43110 on Jan 20th 2023 at 8:26:49 AM
Gonna leave this on drafts until Rav gets to his btw.
- Young Frankenstein:
- Dr. Frederick "Freddie" Frankenstein/Fronkensteen is the witty, rational-minded grandson of the infamous Dr. Victor Frankenstein himself. Inheriting his family castle, Freddie is subtly persuaded by Frau Blücher—his grandfather's lover—to resume Victor's work in creating life. Having his servant Igor help him rob graves to construct his "Adam", Igor ends up botching Freddie's plan by ruining the brilliant brain Freddie needed and bringing back an "abnormal" one. When the sweet-natured but easily confused creature attacks Freddie, he swiftly has it sedated and restrained until Frau Blücher frees it to complete her and Victor's dream, though Freddie is able to lure it back by playing its favorite song on violin. Risking his life to philosophically engage the captive creature and convince it of its worth, Freddie is able to present it to the scientific community, even having it perform a snazzy dance number with him until the unappreciative audience enrages the creature. Once again luring it back to his castle with its favorite song while the townspeople hunt for it after the creature escapes arrest, Freddie links his mind to the creature's, letting it express itself with words and even befriend the townsfolk, his dream of creating intelligent life complete.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright let's knock this one out:
- General Tulius is the gruff leader of the Imperial Garrison in Skyrim who's able mind and ingenuity leads the Empire within Skyrim's civil war. Capturing Ulfric Stormcloak, Tulius is only stopped from ending the rebellion leader's crusade via execution by the untimely appearance of Alduin, causing Tulius to prioritise the citizens of Helgen to escape. Tulius later has his soldiers retrieve the Jagged Crown to boost Solitude's respect amongst the jarls. Knowing that Ulfric intends on attacking Whitrerun, Tulius formulates a plan for Whiterun to join the Empire while protecting them from the onslaught. In the end of the Civil War crusade, Tulius personally leads the assault on Windhelm and stops the Stormcloak rebellion by defeating Ulfric and Galmar. Hand picked by the Emperor himself, Tulius shows why he's a worthy mind to lead the Empire's forces in Skyrim.
Thoughts?
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 20th 2023 at 3:59:00 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright time to knock this one out the way. Future will kindly deal with writeups after so thanks bud.
What is the work?
Violent Night is a delightful film following the Die Hard on a X formula. The X? Our John Mclane is Santa. And Santa was formerly a viking. David Harbour plays a jaded Santa who tries to deliver present to a house of wealthy arseholes when they get attacked by armed robbers lead by the festively named Mr Scrooge. Despite the film being C Mless, I think there's two viable candidates here and here's our first one, Santa Claus.
Who is Santa and what does he do?
Santa was formerly a Viking called Nikamund the Red, a pillager who killed and raided villages for their treasure. Then through unknown means he becomes Saint Nick (no really the movie itself acknowledges that he has no idea how it happened lmao). The movie introduces us him drunk at a bar in England where he has a chat with a Mall Santa who he takes a liking to since the guy does it because he loves making people happy. Covering the present list, Nikamund uses his reindeer to go to various houses and drop of their gifts, eventually making his way to the Lightstone estate, a wealthy family who are also complete dicks.
Unfortunately at the same time, a gang of armed robbers led by "Mr Scrooge" lay a coordianted attack on the manor to rob it of it's 300 million dollars within it's vault. Although almost escaping, Nikamund has a turn around when he realises that the child there, Trudy, is someone who genuinely believes in Santa. Obtaining a radio off a merc he murders, Santa is able to talk to Judy and give her hope that it'll be ok, later revealing his past to her. Later getting wounded, Santa gets brought face to face with Scrooge but manages to escape via using magic to fit in the chimney, heading to a shed to try and recover. After a pep talk from Trudy, Santa more or less goes viking mode on the mercenaries and the traitorous extraction team Scrooge paid off with a sledgehammer.
Giving chase to Scrooge and extraction team leader Thorp, Santa accidentally falls for a trap made by Scrooge, causing him to crash into a cabin. When Scrooge realises that the naughty list is real, ergo Santa is real, he goes for the kill and brawl Santa. Despite losing the fight, Santa turns the tables compltely by heading up the cabin's chimney while holding onto Scrooge. Santa's fine because of magic...Scrooge is a human being compressed into chimney space, you do the math. Unfortunately Santa is fatally shot by Thorp who in turn gets shot by the house matriach Gertrude. After being revived by Trudy's faith in Christmas, Santa bids goodbye and heads off to finish delivering presents.
Is he magnificent?
Now for the first 2/3 of the film... Santa's shown to be a disillusioned drunk (not a Jerkass though) with Christmas and he struggles with his encounters against the mercernaries at first although the film does highlight him pushing himself forward for the sake of children's happiness, especially the ones who deserve it. Then he gets the hammer in the shed. Reminding him of his old warhammer "Skull Crusher", Santa goes one man army and wipes out the armed extraction team while showcasing his wits with ambushes. Him getting ambushed by Scrooge? Well Scrooge is a genius, albeit abrasive, robber so it's not portrayed as Santa's an idiot.
Is he a bastard?
Currently? Not really although Santa was gonna GTFO out the manor when he realised the mercanaries invaded although he pulls back when he realises about Trudy. His big bastard credentials come from being a Viking pillager in the past who looted and plundered villages. Thankfully all we see of the flashback is him in viking garb with Skullcrusher and some burnt buildings and screaming so it doesn't dampen your view on him.
Verdict?
Because of his pull back within the 3rd act? Nice keeper
And the film's a fun watch to!
Oh and the other EP will be one for Scrooge so look out for that!
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 20th 2023 at 7:14:34 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Happy to Santa. Have the writeup in a few days. It's already ready.
Fun movie.
Also, I had a date tonight and she and I ended up seeing Plane. It was simplistically fun. Surprisingly violent, but also surprisingly straightforward and well-paced.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 20th 2023 at 11:47:20 AM
Goku Black
Santa
Professor Gigachad
Sounds like a pretty fun character. Viking Santa
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Santa (thanks for the heads up via PM Wet 
).
The movie's pretty much EXACTLY what you'd expect from the trailer. That's not a bad thing.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Time to do some catchup
Badass Santa, Galvin, Mike the Friendly Serial Killer, Hitomi, Victor, Canute, Anamaria, Rhea, Sportmaster, Tigress, Aaravos
Bye
Not the Eye
Yes to Viking Santa. Love how movie answer to questions about Santa is “ Simply don’t think about it, even he doesn’t know”
Behind on voting, but I'm just seeing an Action Anti-Hero who was once horrible but now is somewhat of a loser, but is still solidly heroic... Do we see examples of his cunning when he was a viking raider? Otherwise I'm leaning ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
Hitomi, Victor, Canute, Mike, Galvin.
Edited by jjjj2 on Jan 21st 2023 at 8:19:15 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Melinda, just please stick to two actives at a time. I think everyone else is, give or take, but please write up the ones you have pending before continuing onward?