Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Sure to Danny. Seems Faye might be a downvote, which is fine! Glad to have her off the books. Anyone think Athena might be worth it as a replacement?
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Hans and Danny
Have one from the show I got into recently
What is the work?
Monkie Kid is LEGO TV show, made by same studio that did Rise of TMNT. Long ago, Monkie King defeated and sealed Demon Bull King inside the mountain, using his magic staff as the seal. Decades pass and Futuristic city has risen around it, MK is the young noodle delivery boy who acidentaly stumbles across the staff, Just as Princess Iron Fan and Red Son, Domon Bull’s family, are about to release him.
MK end up wielding staff and inheritinc Monkey King’s power. With aid of his friends and mentorship of Monkey King, MK takes on the Bull Demon family.
And yes, it is at least as awesome as it sounds.
Who is Six-eared Macaque? What has he done?
Once Monkey king’s friend, together and with other friends (including Bull Demon) they led rebelion against the uncaring heavens, however Monkey was subdued and Macaque beaten and killed, only to be brought back by Lady Bone Demon, under condition he served her when time came.
In the present he manifests giant shadow monster in the city with MK and his friends powerless to stop it, before apearing and seemingly drivin it of. Offering MK, who has been growing annoyed with Monkey’s mentoring, side lessons. Training MK to chanel his angel and agression, Macaque leads him to the mountain to fight shadow demon again. Revealing it was all a plan to be able to steal monkeys power within MK, Macaque prepares to finishing him of. Monkey king arives and two fight, thought Macaque gains the upper hand. Until MK lifts the staff and throws it as Macaque, seemingly vanquishing him.
Returning as shadow performer, he tells MK and his friends a story about warrior and hero, and how hero’s glory has grown while warrior was thrown aside. Traping MK friends Mei, Pigsy and Mr Tang (descendands of dragon horse, Pig demon and Monk from journey respectively) in the shadows, Macaque faces kid again. When MK figures story was about Macaque and Monkey and eguates himself with Macaque, anoyed Macaque says MK is the hero who ignored his friends. He is about to use shadows to finish him only to realise that MK truly cares for his friends. Touched Macaque let’s them go, but is captured by Lady Bone Demon’s servant.
After Lady Bone takes over the city and heroes venture west to find the Samadhi Fire, one weapon that may have chance against her, she has Macaque bound by magic and send him to bring her depovered King and MK because she still needs them. He continues to pursuit them, using his shadow powers both for their force and cunning, notably beating dragon of the east and spliting van heroes travel in two, only failing to capture MK because his powers have been steadilly returning.
Realising what they seek, Macaque tries to take fire for himself to be freed from Lady Bone. Only to be powered by her as she realises Fire is what she needs to cleanse the world and beyond. Macaque succesfully gets the fire, only for Mei to become it’s wessel (her ancestor has acidentaly absorbed part of it while it was split).
Thought MK tries to convice him to do the right thing, Macaque seemingly runs of, only to return with Bone lady’s servant as Monkey king is possesed by Lady and Mei is captured. Teming up with the heroes and the Red Son (Samadhi fire is actually his power Split when he was infant because it was to dangerous), Macaque assist them in saving the universe, notably cariying girl Bone lady possesed to safety when she is freed, Macaque then joins the victory party, before peacefully departing.
Returning at the end of following season, as three of his formed comrades ruturned ready to storm the heaven and MK is having Identity crisis about his mysterious past. Conforting MK, Macaque has him Play a unvinable video game to illustrate the point how he can’t rely on choices life gives him and has to make his own, chiling as MK departs to face three demons.
Is he magnificent?
Oh Yes. Macaque it charming warrior and strategist who is without doubt one of shows most competent and dignified characters. He does have a slight infiriority complex when it comes to Monkey King, but it is never played even near enought to be disqualifing.
His plans normally Fail due to factors he coudn’t predict, like MK lifting magical staff even thought he shouldn’t be able, his powers unexpectedly returning, Mei having connection with Samadhi fire only Monkey King knew about.
New he does get captured and pressed into service to Lady Bone Demon, but he stays competent tracker and despite boasts about being on the winning side, helps heroes save the world and part with them on the friendly terms, before returning and helping MK.
Is he bastard?
Yeah, he manipulates MK and has no problem with trying to kill him and his friends and he does assist Lady Bone demon with ending the world, thought he is partly magical coerced into it.
Despite this he shows plenty of standarda and Redeming factors (saving the girl as mentioned, geniune fodness for MK and even letting his friends when he proves to care for them, helps save te world)
One thing to note when battles the East Dragon, he does lead to shattering of dome around his underwater city, that said from everything we see everyone in the city was either immortal or a Fish Person, with no information about state of the city.
Conclusion?
His arc in the show seems mostly over so I’m gonna say yes, Azure Lion, leader of the three demons also has potential but show is in a Middle of his story.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 31st 2023 at 9:26:53 AM
Buzz
This post was thumped by the Merciless Hammer of Doom
@Lightysnake: actually, I've tallied up the votes and most are favorable to Faye going up (10 upvotes, 4 downvotes, a few abstain). Feel free to write her up.
Has the period expired? I’m on vacation and wanna make sure thing a go fairly with a divisive candidate
Oh right, the news rules. If we're still going with 72 hours, we just gotta wait a bit over 24.
Was worried Hans wouldn't have enough charm, due to the clinical writing style of SCP, but even in the short time his acts were described, it was hard not to be impressed. Gruber.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
On Faye. I agree that sending Kratos and son into harms way was a bastard thing to do, even if she was confident in their success. That being said, from what I can tell, it was the least bad option, and her darker past isn't explored enough to count that in her favor.
Pit some more thought into Anthami and I'm gonna pit in a . While the Rhinos don't need their horns per se (at least in captivity), this pushes up against bodily autonomy in a way I'm not comfortable approving. Comparable would be stealing someone's hair, knowing it wouldn't grow back.
Jaded Techie Fox
to Hans, Danny, and Macaque
Buzz
Another Final Space candidate I was unsure of (and still am), but I think I could make a case for. Info on the series is here, with Bolo's EP
The Candidate
Nightfall, a future version of Quinn Ergon, who first appears Episode 2 of Season 1. She breaks into the Galaxy 1 and comes across KVN and Mooncake, giving the former a chip (which he uses to reboot HUE when he turns against the ship in a later episode) and tells the latter not to let Gary die because of him. She also saves the Galaxy One in the next episode by killing the soldier who was about to shoot the ship out of the sky.
She formally introduces herself to the crew in Episode 7, after Gary, Little Cato, Mooncake, and KVN attempt and fail to exact revenge on the Lord Commander for killing Avocato the previous episode. In her timeline, she met and fell in love with Gary, who later sacrificed his life detonating an anti-matter bomb to close a breach to Final Space. Nightfall became depressed and suicidal, but Bolo reaches out to her, and gives her a time machine so she could set things right.
Nightfall spent 20 years crossing timelines to save Gary, but to no avail. Gary either died detonating the bomb, or at the hands of Lord Commander. In the case of the latter, Mooncake would go on a grief filled rampage, accidentally opening Final Space and freeing the Titans.
Nightfall decides that the only way to save everyone and everything is to kill Mooncake, so she handcuffs Gary to his bed and uses an anti-gravity device to trap Quinn. The escape and confront her, asking her to give Mooncake one last chance, a request which she complied with.
In "Chapter 8", Nightfall helps the Team Squad get to Bolo, and leaves as she is no longer needed.
Season 2
Nightfall returns in the first episode, killing the Lord Commander and freeing Mooncake from captivity. She reunites him with Gary, who is happy to see her because if she is still around, Quinn (who sacrificed herself instead of Gary) would still be alive). She rejoins the crew to help them find Dimensional Keys, which can be used to free Bolo.
Over the course of the season, Nightfall tries to restart a relationship with Gary, but he is only interested in the OG Quinn. She is sad about this, but accepts his decision. In one episode, she uses the Virtualasium to create an artificial Gary using her memories, but is forced to shut down the simulation when it starts to consume too much power, endangering the crew.
After the crew reaches Innerspace, they learn that a "Sixth Key" - a human life - would be needed to free Bolo. When the gang is distracted fighting a possessed Avocato, Nightfall sacrifices herself, asking Mooncake to blast her with his energy beam. As a tearful Mooncake complies, she tells Gary to go rescue Quinn and never let her go.
Season 3
Being dead, she doesn't appear here, though it turns out that she had approached Kevin Van Newton a few years earlier, having asked him to build a ship for Gary and Quinn.
Magnificence
In her first appearance, she manages to evade the Galaxy 1's security measures to deliver an important Chekovs Gun to KVN. She formally makes her presence known to the Team Squad by destroying Lord Commander's incinerator before it can kill Gary and co. in episode 7. Even beyond her grave, she is giving the crew things that would help them, such as a new ship and her Helmet (which contains a crystal that can activate the hyper-transdimensional bridge after it gets overloaded)
However, she's also a tragic character, since her Gary is dead. Her attempts at wooing the main Gary do not work since he only has interest in his own timelines Quinn. While this saddens her, she accepts his decision and continues to help him find her, even sacrificing her life so that they can be together. Overall I don't think this hurts her magnificence at all.
Bastardry
This is where I feel she may not cross it, because while her one morally dubious act - trying to kill Mooncake - would be bad enough, she is only doing it as a last resort and admits that she isn't really happy about having to do it, but it is the only way for her to ensure the safety of the universe.
On the other hand, I feel that her manner of going about with it might push her over - instead of telling Gary and Mooncake that the former being killed will cause the latter to take revenge on everything, she handcuffs Gary to keep him out of the way and starts firing at a clearly terrified Mooncake. She explains her reasoning to Quinn, but only after trapping her with an anti-gravity bomb. When Quinn eventually reveals this to Gary, he is willing to compromise and stay on the Galaxy 1, even though his prison sentence is over.
Image Pickin' Backlog
I think yes there.
My last note on Faye would be to note: for all her good intent, unleashing Baldur on the heroes does result in some collateral. It absolutely results in serious mental pain and anguish for her family, not to mention Baldur himself who suffers immensely and is killed before Freyja.
Lizzid people!
Sure for Nightfall.
Yes to Nightfall and the Macaque.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That reminds me I still need to find the time to write up Freya and try to get to the Norns tomorrow. It's been a busy week.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Mar 31st 2023 at 12:12:54 PM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Hey idk if anyone noticed, but a EP of mine didn’t get any votes. Is the 72 hour voting abstinence still in place?
Woagh
to Nightfall.
Going with a on the Dancing Banana having played the game. Even ignoring how his avoiding of the accusations isn't really impressive (It literally goes "that wasn't me" and "Ok"), the whole joke is that we really don't know what he did or if they were that bad. Otherwise he's a fairly amicable if weird game show host.
Not the Eye
to Nightfall
to Dancing Banana
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
to Nightfall
to Danny Bostic, Six-eared Macaque and Nightfall.
to Dancing Banana.
Jaded Techie Fox
to Nightfall
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Apologies for the length of this one, the guy does a bit and I'll need a bit of space to explain the mitigating issues. Consider this my April Fool's one since I'm still torn on a Dreamworks one, a possible CM/MB crossover and I haven't gotten around to my final Skyrim guy.
What is the work?
Trollhunters is a delightful series, first within the Tales of Arcadia franchise. The show follows Jim Lake Jr and his allies after he discovers a mysterious amulet which called for him. This causes him to be the guardian of the troll society underneath the city of Arcadia from the numerous foes that plague the franchise. One of these foes? The second Arc Villain and a major antagonist of the third series, the troll assassin Angor Rot.
Who is Angor Rot and what has he done?
A troll warrior from ages past, Angor was a noble fighter who's village was under attack from the vicious troll Gunmar (the franchise's central antagonist.) Seeking the means to be able to protect his people, Angor sailed to a remote island and requested the Pale Lady (later revealed to be the sorceress Morgana) to provide him the power to save his kind. Morgana provided him the strength... but also confined his soul to a ring in which the wearer has control over him (although not to brainwashing levels.) Under Morgana's control, Angor leaves a trail of the bodies of former Trollhunters, harvesting their souls, eventually somehow being imprisoned within a temple in a jungle.
After the death of Gunmar's son, Bular, the changeling Stricklander went to the temple where Angor resided and showed him the ring to have him under control. Returning to Arcadia, Stricklander explains to Angor the current situation and how he needs him to eliminate Jim so he can complete his own agenda. Angor then tests Jim's skills by sicking a golem on him after luring him out to the football pitch, knowing that because Jim killed Bular, he's not one to be trifled with even being human.
Angor, wanting to meet Jim in person, lays an attack by creating glass golems to attack Jim's allies while drawing Jim out to chase him in which he traps Jim in stasis and leaves a mark on him. This Mark allows Angor to steal Jim's sword of Daylight from him and use it in combat. This is shown when Angor ambushes the heroes within the Quagawamp swamps and killing the false king Blungo (coincidentally the image for Bait-and-Switch Boss.) Although Angor manages to get the artefact they were after, Claire manages to steal Angor's shadow staff from him in a scuffle.
Wanting to break free from Stricklander's control, Angor tries to use a pixie to cloud Stricklander's mind, hallucinating Bular to demand him to remove the ring. Despite almost succeeding, Stricklander realised it was an illusion when he saw someone just casually walk through Bular (for reference Bular is about 10ft of brute force.) To try and get the ring removed, Angor unleashes Pixies on the school Jim goes to, making everyone there hallucinate, allowing Angor to walk freely within the halls. Dueling Jim, a pixie eventually gets into his ear, in which Angor uses his confusion to strike a deal that if he helps him remove the ring, he'll sever the connection between Stricklander and Jim's mother (if one gets hurt, the other feels it.)
When Jim gets hold of a time stopping device, he manages to steal the ring from Stricklander and then decides to find Angor to try and steal the artefact he had from the swamp episode. Unfortunately just as Jim grabs it, the time device's usage runs out right. In the scuffle Jim tries to put the ring on before Angor responds infuriated. In the scuffle, Angor accidentally smashes the ring and in a brief glimmer of hope he smiles seeing his soul float up... before dissipating. Jim narrowly escapes Angor who's now infuriated beyond belief... and now free from the ring's curse. First thing Angor does is track Stricklander and almost kills him while chasing his car.
To kill Jim and Stricklander, Angor uses his eye to scope out Jim's house, letting him walk through the basement and attack the duo along with Draal, one of Jim's troll allies. As Jim feigns an escape, they manage to capture Angor in a stasis trap that he had used on Jim prior and was almsot killed via UV bulbs (sunlight is fatal to trolls) before Jim's mom had a Mama Bear moment and whacked Angor, knocking him out of the trap. Angor slashes Stricklander, equivalating that wound onto Barbara albeit more lethal since she's human. Angor then gives chase when the duo escape via car, almost catching them.
With Jim's mom under the threat of dying, Claire and Toby head to Stricklanders office to find a book which will remove the binding spell. After they grab the book, Angor ambushes them and seemingly just drops them off the school building after spotting something in Claire's bag. The thing Angor spotted? The device to get into Trollmarket itself, something Angor is gleeful about knowing that Jim's one hiding spot is no longer viable.
To prep an attack on Trollmarket, Angor fashions himself a bag full of charms, letting him create an army of golems. Angor only creates one first to seemingly play off as him trying to break in as a diversion before sneaking in and generating dozens of golems to attack the troll denziens. Although Jim had managed to remove Angor's curse so he can't steal his weapons, Angor still puts up a formidable fight. Noticing Toby, Angor flings his blade at him, forcing Aaaargh to jump infront of him, turning him to stone. Jim lures Angor to the combat arena where he almost loses to Angor before Toby falls through a portal with his hammer and Jim kicks his blade into Angor, petrifying him and destroying the statue.
With Gunmar in control of Trollmarket and seeking to free Morgana from her prison, he takes Angor's eye to a temple she can communicate in, resurrecting him and restoring his soul. Angor then goes with Gunmar to Merlin's tomb along with a brainwashed Draal courtesy of Gunmar, leaving Aaaarg in a stasis trap lined with bombs so if the heroes tried to free him, it would detonate. When the brainwashing wears off, Gunmar brutalises Draal with Angor watching before he tells Gunmar to stop and that Draal may be of use after hearing Gunmar recite the same words as Stricklander did calling him a chained animal.
Within the actual tomb, Angor waits and ambushes the heroes before they manage to slip through a hole in the floor that he and Gunmar used Draal's prosthetic arm to jam open. In the caves below, Angor gives duel to Jim while Draal fights Gunmar. Eventually Gunmar makes with Merlin's staff before Angor climbs up and tries to kill Jim before Draal takes the blow. While Draal tries to take Angor into the abyss, he breaks free and is left behind by Gunmar in the collapsing cave.
Within the series' finale, Morgana unleashes the Eternal Night, allowing Gunmar and his forces to try to ravage the surface world. Angor stays behind with Morgana to ambush Merlin and Aaargh when they try to steal the staff back. Morgana then allows Angor to leave, letting him take care of Jim. Angor eventually finds Jim along with Gunmar and while Gunmar asks "Who goes first?", Angor responds "Why take turns?" before both villains charge at Jim. During the skirmish, Angor almost has Jim dead to rights before Jim recalls him of his past and now that he has his soul back, he no longer has an excuse of being a villain making Angor pause. Gunmar interferes calling Angor weak and throws him away and attacks Jim.
Angor is then seen calling Morgana as she has the heroes dead to rights. Morgana lets Angor have the opportunity to kill Jim as he had brought it up to her earlier he wants revenge for his missing eye and Angor charges, seemingly to give a fatal slash... before sucker punching Morgana. Angor duels Morgana lasting a decent while before holding her and letting Jim impale both him and her with his sword of daylight. Unfortunately this didn't work as Morgana had siphoned enough power to be borderline invincible. Angor noticing Claire's staff, calls her to use to summon a portal so he can try and drag Morgana into the shadow realm. Unfortunately Morgana kills Angor permanently by unleashing a small wave of energy shattering his body as he had already been fatally wounded via the double impale. Despite this Angor calling out Claire to use the staff allowed the heroes to finally defeat Morgana and sealed her by trapping her within the shadow realm.
Is he magnificent?
In season One, Angor is a terrifying and competent threat. Utilising both magic and combat, Angor has a mastery of tactics and ambushing. Unlike most trolls, he doesn't let Jim being human let him underestimate him since he knew anyone that could best Bular would be a formidable foe. The ring having control over him isn't played as a brainwashing situation as Angor was able to devise a deal with Jim to get his ring back.
As for slapstick humour? Angor has 2 moments of comedy of him being the joke, granted they're of a Groin Attack nature but they're spaced out and not portrayed as a final defeat in a battle. For the viewer they play off as a moment of levity since he's been a no nonsense villain. When he gets free of the ring's control he wastes no time with Bond Villain Stupidity and almost comes within killing Jim at the end if it wasn't for Toby appearing via magic.
In Season 3, Angor doesn't suffer through Villain Decay as he still is a major threat in combat and is completely fearless of Gunmar, calling him out for leaving him and snarking when his plans don't work. His final death isn't exactly a Senseless Sacrifice as he ultimately provided the stepping stones for the heroes' to stop Morgana and even tries to drag her back into the portal.
Now about the major issue, how much of a pawn he is of Morgana, then a CM but now listed an MB. I think he's alright? He's shown not to be completely under her thumb despite serving her loyally as you can see glimmers in him looking displeased with her, and with him ultimately performing a Heel–Face Turn and being the reason the heroes manage to defeat her I think he escapes it.
Is he a bastard?
I mean yeah, Angor is responsible for plenty of deaths throughout the years but he's never going through absurd torturous methods. When he releases the pixies in the school he grabs a student with a sword to his neck but that's just so he can get closer to Jim as he doesn't otherwise attack the other students.
Thankfully his bastardy is shown in a lesser evil compared to Gunmar and Morgana in season 3 as he calls out their brutality and doesn't seem to care about Eternal Night for the same reason them two do (human feeding ground for Gunmar and magical chaos for Morgana since this was her of the top of her Sanity Slippage before Wizards turn her into an MB.) Him being of a lower tier of evil especially with how nasty the villains in the franchise can get helps him IMO while he still stays a memorable villain.
Final Verdict
Thread decides as always!
Oh and for any concerns about any tie in novels or comics, Wizards portray the events differently to them and that's the canon show FWIW.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lies and Violence!
Danny, Macaque, Nightfall, and Angor Rot, at least from memory.
- Season 9 (Hunted) & Season 10 (March of the Oni): Faith is the second-in-command of the Dragon Hunters. The most efficient and capable of the Hunters, Faith adopts the "Heavy Metal" alias to fit in with the Iron Baron's misogynistic society, and wields the Dragonbone Blade to enforce his will. Able to easily subdue three of the Ninja and even a wind dragon, Faith defects from the Hunters and helps the Ninja flee from captivity, intent on having Wu lead her to the Dragon Armor of the First Spinjitzu Master so she can use its power to escape the Baron's draconian rule. Faith helps the Ninja master the Hunters' weapons to aid in their search, before turning the other Hunters against the Baron's lies and taking over to lead them to a peaceful future with the dragons.
Caesar
Yes to Nightfall and Angor Rot!
Anyone else have thoughts/opinions on Faye after reviewing all the arguments? I'm more than fine if she goes up but she's a divisive one so I'd like to make sure we've looked at both sides and given our final votes on the topic.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Kratos's dead wife may be a divisive candidate, but it's time I write up Kratos's other wife that wasn't. Since Freya is in both Norse games, she'll be listed under God of War (2018) and God of War Ragnarök. This is longer than I normally like at 220 words but she's the third most important character in the Norse duology so I can't really cut it more.
- God of War (2018) and God of War Ragnarök: Freya is the beloved Queen of the Vanir, a powerful and cunning sorceress, and skilled warrior who wed and later left the cruel Aesir Odin for his abusive ways. Cursed by Odin to never leave Midgard or harm another living soul, Freya nevertheless loved their son Baldur and "gifted" him invulnerability while robbing him of his ability to feel pleasure and pain in the process. Outcast from both the Vanir and Aesir, Freya lived in exile as a healer until she by chance met Kratos and Atreus on their quest to spread Faye's ashes. The motherly Freya aided them many times in their journey while also secretly stealing their mistletoe that could hurt Baldur and cursing Mimir during his resurrection to never reveal her son's weaknesses. During their battle with Baldur, Freya cleverly works around her curse by indirectly harming and hindering Kratos and swearing vengeance upon him when he kills Baldur to save her. She later retrieves her Valkyrie wings and tries to murder Kratos multiple times and puts both him and the innocent Atreus in harm's way by manipulating human survivors of Fimbulwinter into attacking them. Ultimately, Freya uses Kratos to break her last curse, helps him meet the Norns and forgives him in the process, and works with him to finally cast down Odin and destroy Asgard.
Alrighty, gotta come down to a no to Faye, having now read through, good EP though. Happy yes to SCP!Hans (Love it!), Danny, Macaque, Nightfall and Angor Rot. No to the Banana
Woagh
Yes to Hans
Watch Land of the Lost reminded me about another story with people from all different times being dumped in a parallel universe, so without further ado, I give you Time Spike.
Work
Time Spike is a stand alone spin-off novel to the 1632 time travel/Alternate History novel series (with the time travel leading to steampunk alternate history).
In this story, aliens use a strange element to send locations on Earth from different points in history into an alternate timeline. Dinosaurs, conquistadors, many tribes of Native Americans, and a modern prison with over a thousand inmates and guards get there.
Character
Danny Bostic has been a petty thief since early childhood and robbed at least four banks in smart operations where no one got hurt before his arrest. He is part of a revolt where the prisoners take over while many of the guards are out scouting and making alliances.
When his leader, Adrian Luff, decides to kill hundreds of prisoners to save resources, Boston suggests just turning them loose in the wilderness (or keeping them we canon fodder soldiers against the guards even if it means starving them until then) and when that is vetoed argues that the killings will hurt morale and notes that either way they need to considering hunting for food rather than just killing people to save the food they have.
He personally leads dozens of executions of expendable prisoners a day after being outvoted by the other leaders but plots to leave and muses they there will never be enough food if they stick to the prison like Luff insists, while there is food outside the prison and with the right strategies and weapons, they can get in tight with the native tribes.
After a riot, he and a few supporters prepare to flee but run into some escaping prisoners and a female guard they teamed up with named Elaine. When one of his men starts a Mexican standoff by wanting to rape Elaine, he considers the situation but refused it by calmly agreeing to let them go their own way. He then proceeds to kill the would-be rapist who provoked the standoff. However, watching Elaine later, he breifly feels powerful lust and thinks about how (since his group are the only ones armed) they could make her come with him. He look away angrily and banishes the thought from his head. He gives the other group a gun mainly so they will owe him a favor and partially because he and his men already have paacks loaded with weapons, but partially out of some genuine warmth.
Later it is mentioned that he pulled a Beowulf move by finding a village menaced by an allosaurus and dig a pit with sharpened stakes and made himself bait in the middle to lure the dinosaur in. Then he acted modest and became the village hero and heir after becoming betrothed to a niece of the chief. He forms a cautious alliance with the guard and their allies as they loosen restrictions on former prisoners.
Magnificent
He is great at planning far ahead and is fair with his men if they earn the trust he gives them. He doesn’t try to conquer a native tribe but does them favors to gain power and kilsl a giant dinosaur. He tries to prevent the murders of other prisoners at first. He avoids suspciion about his defection plan and gets away with so many weapons that he is able to feel cofnident giving one away.
Bastard? Too much?
He is a career thief who carried out the murders he disapproves of to keep from drawing unwanted attention before his escape. He executes his rapist subordinate as a liability but does briefly considering forcing the woman that man threatens to accompany his group, which would be Questionable Consent at best. He resists that brief rapey temptation and has no part history of rape in the past, but thinking that in the first place it isn’t a great thing and I don't remember any similiar cases, so I don't know if it is disqualifying or not.
Edited by Melinda on Mar 31st 2023 at 6:51:11 AM