Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Mystique and Link
So I'm going through Columbo and I have a couple potential candidates from it but I'd like to avoid the issues we're having right now with Dukes. Would it be a better idea to propose candidates more slowly as I find them or should I hold off till I've finished the show and propose them at the same time?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
4 that I'm definitely going to propose with like 3 more that I want to take a 2nd look at. I'm near the beginning of season 4 of 10. The seasons get shorter as they go on but there's also a bunch of specials.
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 21st 2023 at 6:59:23 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
How many have you got atm? And how far are you in the series?
Personally I'm with them being proposed spaced out so it's not a blur to read.
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 21st 2023 at 1:03:51 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The wifi here sucks
Yeah I hadn't actually looked at how much Columbo there really is before asking that question. I'm just going to propose people as I go since I don't want to drop like 14 candidates at once.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Man in the Yellow Hat
x4 Admittedly, 20 lines ain't that much, and they seem to be a competent fighter on top of their infiltration and opportunism. Tentative ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for now.
Since no one seems interested in Ward and Lavinia I guess it might be time to post blue links for all of the candidates. Or is that what you want.
Who wants to collab with me on an EP?
I think the links would be helpful Melinda and I can try and help you on the weekend Brandon?
maybe give me a few days although I might have time earlier.
Edited by Melinda on Mar 21st 2023 at 10:05:54 AM
I wasn't exactly sure how I wanted to write this one up, but I decided the best way was to make it a "companion" write up to the main entry. By this, I mean I'm not going to repeat any of its action, but rather emphasize the benefits of a different medium give to amplify the character's magnificence. It's not exactly how a normal write up is done bit I think it's the most effective in context of what I was going for when I proposed the animated Music.
- Soul Music (1996 Animated Film): The Music proves to be every bit the devious and destructive source of Rock and Roll in the Animated Adaptation as it was in the original novel. The audio and visuals of the animation bring new life to the Music as a character by expanding on the briefly mentioned concerts in the novel into full blown musical numbers with original lyrics. The Music is shown to use its power to change the band's clothes and empower their performances with a wide array of special effects, and further shown to be a true master of all forms of Rock music no matter the genre. Given new life and soul in the animation, one can truly see how the Music could shape Imp y Celyn into becoming the greatest musician on the Discworld.
The Moron
Alrighty, got another wacky candidate to bring up. I'm kinda on the fence on this one, but fuck it, let's go!
What is the work?
Nerf John Wick is exactly what you think it is - it's a parody of the John Wick series that takes the film's famous Gun Kata fight scenes, replaces them with nerf guns, and then plays the entire thing completely straight. It's absolutely glorious, and to be frank, that's all the time I have to get into this here because we need to get to our candidate.
Who is John Wick? What does he do?
John Wick, as always, is a lethal assassin with Gun Kata skills that are simply unmatched. At the beginning of the video, John is finishing up his latest hit/crusade/revenge plot/we don't really know, but the head guy promises that he's not done. As John kills him, the guy pushes his phone and sends out a public bounty - $7 million for anyone who can kill John Wick. John doesn't realize this and heads back to his hideout, but when an intruder tries to shoot him in the back of the head, he dodges the bullet and kills him. A glance at his phone reveals the bounty, so John starts prepping his safe house as would-be assassins start coordinating an assault.
John comes out guns blazing, taking out several thugs in short order - including one where he quickly switches weapons for a Coup de Grâce. He loses his primary weapon in another assault, but he still takes out the thugs, including by catching a bullet out of the air, stabbing a thug with it, taking that dude's gun to kill the other, and then pushing the "bullet" all the way into his head. John continues making his way through the safe house, including attacking someone with his magazine before killing them, taking someone else's magazine for his own gun, cocking a Raider CS-35 on a thug's body (can you tell I'm a nerf nerd?) and holding a thug against a wall while he manually reloads a bullet to finish him off. The last thug's phone reveals that the bounty has increased to $150 Bazillion (I'm not making that up), so John goes to prepare himself for what comes next.
End video.
Is he Magnificent?
For a 3-minute parody video? John isn't just a badass, the dude's really damn smart. His safe house is loaded with weapons in key places for the assault, and throughout his fighting, he shows quick thinking like catching a bullet out of the air to stab someone with it, throwing an empty magazine at someone to disorient them, stealing someone's magazine to put in his own gun and shoot them with it, cocking a gun on someone's body, and quickly improvising when he runs out of ammo to manually load a bullet. He shows most of his intelligence through his fighting, but the video takes full advantage of using darts instead of bullets to showcase his insanely quick thinking and improvisational skills to show why John Wick is so unstoppable.
Is he a Bastard?
It's John Wick, and there's enough evidence of his general shady activities for me to be okay with him. Outside of the fact that he owns like 25 guns and kills literally everyone else who appears in the video (though they're admittedly attacking him), there are nods to his general assassin stuff in the beginning - he's clearly coming off of something pretty major in the beginning, whether that's a hit or a revenge quest or whatever, we see a glimpse of his record when the bounty goes out, etc. It's a John Wick parody so I don't think we have to read too far between the lines to make it clear that he's still an assassin even if the video doesn't have time to go in depth about it.
Final verdict?
I think a yes, all things considered. What about you?
Ultimate Moral Compass
Nerf Wick
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Mystique and a big one to John Wick with the Nerf gun ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Goku Black
wick and link.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Wick
I'm a bit concerned that The Music's write up for the animated film may be too non specific on its actions. It's reminding me of the issue we had with the old write up for the play version of the Snake from The Little Prince where the focus was more on the theatrics of the adaptation while leaving out what the character actually does.
If you click the date the post was made it will highlight the post and the url will take you to the post.
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 22nd 2023 at 9:15:55 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Yes to Wick
Can someone remind me how to blue links specific entry and not just a whole page?
Here's the writeup for Sonora... gotta say, the whole "countries as characters" might raise a few eyebrows when this gets on the main page.
The National Sonoran Republic is The Leader of the nationalist Northern Mexican nations. Emerging after two years of civil war, Sonora capitalizes on the instability of their neighbors to slowly grow their land and power over time, culminating in the unification of North Mexico under them. Allying with Denmark, Sonora sticks to Denmark’s plan to crush the ADB by invading California and Nevada, even as they are surrounded and invaded on all sides. When Denmark’s plan ultimately fails due to Tennessee’s betrayal, Sonora accepts their death with grace, warning the original Mexico “not to ruin our glorious nation.”
Edited by Koopa22 on Mar 25th 2023 at 11:22:36 AM
Simultaneously hands-on and hands-off with my life.
Jaded Techie Fox
to Nerf Wick
I believe that Harley Quinn from Gotham Knights received unanimous up votes from everyone who voted on her, so here is a write-up. I have never made one of these before so if anything about it needs to be changed, then just let me know.
Harleen Quinzel, better known as Harley Quinn, is a supervillain operating in Gotham City, and a former lover of the Joker who decided to leave him and go solo after his brutal torture and murder of Jason Todd. After hearing rumors of Batman's death, she sends the Knights a video showing the book of profiles containing evidence of a centuries-long conspiracy she put together for him at Blackgate. She then orchestrates a prison riot by encouraging the prisoners to rise up above the guards, and then sends the hero on a chase after her book that keeps both distracted long enough for her to escape. After escaping, she allies with a gang called the Freaks and adopts the persona "Dr. Q", using her skills in psychology to host self-help podcasts and seminars meant to exploit the emotionally vulnerable, Harley hosts an event at the Monarch Theater to show off her new implant to the crowd. Harley convinces them to buy their own implants by appealing to their inner desires and showmanship, keeping the audience in the dark that the implants remove inhibitions and fear as a form of mind control, allowing Harley to cause more riots and take over the minds of the citizens who use them. After the hero reaches Harley Quinn, she reveals the remote she is using to control those with her implants and engages in a battle where she makes use of both her devotees and an electrified hammer. Eventually, the hero manages to disarm Harley of her mind control remote and breaks it, freeing the devotees of her control before managing to subdue Harley herself. While being arrested, Harley initially accuses the Knights of cheating, before complimenting them on getting better at apprehending criminals and accepting her defeat.
- "High Flyin' Dukes": Percy is a petty criminal who Boss hires to put lye in a crop duster so Boss can file a Frivolous Lawsuit against the pilot. Percy is a rare villain to not only know that Boss has a Chronic Back Stabbing Disorder but take steps against it. He records his meeting with Boss and uses that blackmail material and calm Plausible Deniability arguments to avoid being arrested for most of the episode. He and his partner Hector decide to steal the crop duster and use it to extort other farmers by threatening to dump plywood on their crops, doing demonstration runs with flour. Even when they are caught red-handed, Percy tricks Boss Hogg and Rosco into letting their guard down before he and Hector escape and are only recaptured because the Dukes have recovered the plane and it gives them an advantage in the ensuing chase.
Since it's been a little over a day, I would like to say that Sonora just needs one more vote to get to 5.
I thought your own vote counted?
Edited by Koopa22 on Mar 22nd 2023 at 6:41:18 AM
Simultaneously hands-on and hands-off with my life.
Lies and Violence!
I'll give a yes, but including myself I only count 4 votes. Yes to John Wick as well, missed that.
Any way to shorten that?
Bit busy at the moment, but just to keep the ball rolling, Imma drop another Ninjago off along with Ronin a few hours early.
What the hell is going on now?
Okay, season 8 gimmick... a gang of biker cultists want to steal three demonic "Oni" masks to resurrect the series Big Bad, Lord Garmadon. These "Sons of Garmadon" are led by the Quiet One, aka the crown princess of Ninjago, Harumi. I'll get to her in time, but for now Imma instead focus on one of her minions.
Who is Mr. E?
A "Nindroid," or robotic ninja, Mr. E acts as one of Harumi's top generals. Opening the season masterminding the heist of the first Oni mask, E leads a team to sneak past a billionaire's security system, easily locating the mask's secret hiding spot and using his swords to reflect lasers. Although one of the ninja, Lloyd, interferes, E gets away on a zip line and cuts it while Lloyd is following—and though he manages to catch up in a high-speed car chase, E goads him into a game of chicken, driving at each other until E launches himself into the air at the last second onto a pre-prepared escape boat. E uses the mask's power throughout the season to help him win fights, absolutely manhandling anyone in his way.
About halfway through the season, one of the ninja, Zane (who is also a Nindroid), infiltrates the bikers by pretending to help E escape the other ninja. Either this was an intentional flop or E's just good at improvisation, because when the other generals find out the truth and send E to take care of him, he beats the ever-living shit out of him (after grabbing onto his bike in the middle of a chase scene and almost driving them both off a goddamn cliff), then places a bug on his barely alive body. When the ninja come to rescue Zane, repairing him on the way to the third and final Oni mask, E activates the bug to go on a rampage throughout their ship, hijacking their computer systems and hacking into their other Nindroid friend so she'll crash them. Harumi is also with the ninja, not yet revealed to be the Quiet One, and this chaos allows her to isolate Lloyd from the others so he'll lead her to the last mask—without the suspicions of the others getting in the way.
Fighting ensues, as per usual, and after a series of wacky shenanigans Garmadon is resurrected and takes over the city. The ninja go into hiding, but rather than just raze the city to find them, Harumi suggests a more "surgical" option in E. He manages to box in the ninja, briefly losing them but quickly returning with the full might of the Oni masks... until Skylor and the elemental masters, I covered her a while back, suddenly appear out of nowhere to offer a quick escape to the heroes. Garmadon destroys E for his failure...
Until he gets better! Long story short, Harumi finds herself in the service of an omnicidal being of darkness called the Overlord. To help their efforts to take over the world, she rebuilds Mr. E as "Mister F." It's ambiguous whether this is the original E repaired or just a completely new model, but they're essentially the same character, so I'll treat them as such. He doesn't do much other than act as Harumi's loyal and efficient muscle—whenever a fight breaks out, F is usually the one to subdue their enemies with a quick shot to the back of a head, otherwise you just run from him—though he does get an important role close to the finale when he finds a radio message between the ninja, giving it to Harumi to discern the location of the surviving refugees of the Overlord's attack. Fighting ensues again, and F has a billboard dropped on him. Whether he survived or not has yet to be revealed.
Mitigating qualities?
He isn't as active as many of the others that will be discussed, but he hits all the right marks. He's a clever badass who is able to efficiently operate as Harumi's right-hand, orchestrating events to aid her deception and executing difficult heists with ease. He's also got more than enough style; this motherfucker almost drives himself off a cliff just to take someone else out with him, then gets back up from the ensuing crash like it's nothing before proceeding to brutalize his opponent.
And of course, he's absolutely evil enough. Setting aside how he's part of a criminal biker gang cult, he also helps Harumi, you know, murder her parents and mentor figure by setting their house on fire. Shit gets dark.
And here's Ronin:
- Ronin is a skilled thief and occasional ally of the Ninja. Already at odds with them when introduced in the series proper, Ronin tentatively helps fight Morro's ghosts, only to turn on the Ninja when the Soul Archer calls in a debt that risks his soul being cursed. Stealing the Sword of Sanctuary using his autopiloted ship as a diversion, all while encouraging Nya to embrace carefreeness to master her water powers, Ronin backs out of the deal when asked to capture the Ninja, instead informing his newfound "friends" of the location of the First Spinjitzu Master's tomb. After helping defeat Morro, Ronin doggedly pursues the Ninja when they're framed for a crime spree, effortlessly cornering and capturing them yet remaining affable in his hunt for their bounties, and later aids in fighting Nadakhan. Ronin returns as the villain of The Island miniseries: pretending to capture escapees from Kryptarium Prison, Ronin recruits them to scam the Keepers, constructing a fake Wojira to scare the tribe into sacrificing riches to appease the spirit. Nonetheless helping stop the Overlord later on, Ronin consistently remains greedy and unscrupulous, but when push comes to shove will always chip in to save the world.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 22nd 2023 at 6:49:44 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Draft looks nice.
Also, is it just me, or does the Pending Upvotes page needs a serious update? Cause I haven't seen any new entries being posted there.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Not the Eye
to the Robo Ninja Biker Cultist.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Compared to the major characters and the Big Bad Denmark, I would say that Sonora doesn’t get much screentime at all. Maybe around 20 lines in the whole movie. But for the time they do get, they strike me as uniquely… well, magnificent.
Simultaneously hands-on and hands-off with my life.