Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
muerte.
Sorry to hear that Geode.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Sorry about your loss, Geode.
Yes to Muerte
Lies and Violence!
Condolences, Geode. Yes to Muerte.
Astolfo my Man
Muerte
To Muerte
Sorry for your loss Geode
Not the Eye
The Ultimate Lifeform
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Muerte.
Curious: What are Gunnar's redeeming qualities?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Ah, makes sense. Who Wants to Live Forever?
Edited by ACW on Apr 13th 2023 at 5:09:58 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Gunnar’s immortality made him outlive his family, whom he cares a lot about, among other grave losses he’s witnessed in his long lifespan. His whole goal of wiping out all life is so that he can break the curse and finally die.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Pending Writeups
- Culture of the Past: Lewis Coltrane (Iceaura)
- Dragonheart: Battle for the Heartfire: Thorgrim (Mimic)
- Darkwatch (Newton):
- Sled: Nikifor Yushkin (PS)
- Bleach: Ultimate Alien: Barragan (Pyromania)
- Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Comics) (Yorkobe):
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Muerte
Also Dead Island 2 is out soon and it doesn't seemed to be claimed so I'll just sneak in a reservation there. Welcome to a Collab as always!
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Ultimate Moral Compass
Can I collab? I reserved that one many years ago.
They're getting back to that ? It's been like eight years since I heard anything.
Edited by Beast on Apr 13th 2023 at 4:19:13 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Kodos and Ixis Naugus
Edited by TBmacho22 on Apr 13th 2023 at 9:38:26 AM
The MILF Virus
- Darkwatch:
- Tala, the commander of Darkwatch, is a traitorous vixen using the Darkwatch and Jericho for her own ambitions. Driving the order into extreme measures including executing civilians, Tala was using them to gain dark powers herself, getting them later after seducing Jericho and taking some of his own. Becoming a vampire herself, Tala sold the Darkwatch to Lazarus, having it massacred before later hijacking Lazarus' plans by stealing his powers after his defeat, enacting the ritual he made to turn the world into her own hellish dimension through blood sacrifices. She then tries to get Jericho to side with her again, ending with her trying to kill him for rejecting her or trying to seduce as his new right-hand after defeating Cassidy.
- Lazarus is a vampire lord formerly imprison by the Darkwatch before being freed by Jericho in a train heist gone wrong. The founder of the Darkwatch, Lazarus later succumb to vamparism after a demon possess him, turning into a heartless monster planning to scourge the world into a land of undead under his rule. Sadistically amuse by Jericho, Lazarus tried to have him embrace his new vampire nature after cursing him, ruthless trying to sate his blood hunger including presenting Cassidy's beheaded body as an offering, while he continues his rampage to turn the Wild West into hell itself, culmilating him into massacring the Darkwatch after Tala betrayed them to him, trying to kill Jericho in a brutal battle.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yea to Muerte.
Expect an effortpost or more at some point this coming week.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 13th 2023 at 11:23:58 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Yes to Muerte and Richard Sackler. As someone who's lost all but one grandparent, I know how you feel, Geode. My deepest condolences...
Edited by Klavice on Apr 13th 2023 at 8:59:27 AM
Muerte and Sackler
Yes to Muerte. I have now seen Renfield. Discussion in 2.
Have DND, an Andy Serkis and more Dracs coming up...a Zhang Yimou film'll be following that.
Lizzid people!
Alright, April 14th. Here we go.
What is the work?
Buddy Daddies is an original 2023 anime series by P.A. Works. The lead protagonists, Kazuki Kurusu and Rei Suwa are your typical roommates who work hard for an honest living. Well if you count being professional killers as honest living. Both roommates work for an assassin guild run by Rei's father and enact the hits they are commissioned. That Christmas, in particular, they were tasked with taking down an exceedingly awful human trafficker, but while they were carrying out their mission, fate would prove to have something completely different in store for them.
A young, 4-year-old girl named Miri Unasaka arrives in the city to look for her biological father when she is taken hostage by the trafficker leading to them shooting the man between the eyes. Except, oh crap, it turns out that guy was Miri's biological father. Before long, the two assassins find themselves becoming the unofficial parents of the young girl, and taking care of her would eat into their work.
Who is he?
Ryo Ogino is the antagonist of the anime. A professional killer who works in the same assassin guild as Rei and Kazuki, he differentiates himself from them in a major way: while the two roommates kill mainly for monetary reasons, Ogino is fascinated by death, so much so, he makes it a must to document the last words of his victims. He is less a professional assassin and more a serial killer in that regard. He is first introduced gruesomely massacring the guards of a kingpin Kazuki and Rei failed to kill due to Miri's intrusion.
As the series goes on, Ogino is revealed to have been behind several incidents throughout the series: for instance, when Kazuki was appointed with taking down a target, Ogino shoots out the tires of the getaway car...causing the car to crash into a gas truck...and Kazuki's wife, Yuzuko Kurusu, happened to be there. Yuzuko's death would linger on Kazuki's conscience for years explaining why he quickly became attached to Miri: Ogino did not just kill his wife, she was also pregnant at the time.
Whenever the head of the Suwa Clan, Shigeki Suwa, felt that a member of the guild was "traitorous," he would have Ogino "take care of them" by ordering him to go after their loved ones. While accompanying Rei on a hit to kill his mentor, Rei notices photos of his mentor's girlfriend who was kidnapped and presumably tortured to death. Ogino simply smirks at it while explaining that the mentor "betrayed" the organization, so his girlfriend had to pay for it.
Eventually, he catches on that Kakuzi and Rei were falling behind on their jobs because of Miri. In response to this, Kyu arranges for Miri's birth mother, Misaki (who was diagnosed with cancer and now wants to be in her daughter's life) to take her daughter from the two assassins' care in hopes of keeping her safe. But he had the misfortune of underestimating his superior.
When Shigeki orders Ogino to kill Kazuki and Miri so that Rei would never be weighed down by emotional attachment again, Ryo kills Misaki and tries to go after Miri. Kazuki intervenes only to get shot in the shoulder by the larger man. He is able to distract Ogino long enough that the police are notified and he leaves requesting Kazuki to relay Misaki's final words.
Rei and Kazuki resolve to take Rei's father down and leave the organization to become real parents for the now-orphaned Miri. Ogino anticipates their arrival and opens fire on the two dads. Despite all their weaponry, Ogino nearly kills the two of them. Disappointed by how mundane Misaki's last words were, Ogino demands Kazuki to tell him the final words that his wife said. Kazuki distracts Ogino again by threatening to blow up the kitchen and take Ogino with him. Rei arrives and attempts to stab Ogino but the man's quick reflexes prevent that.
As he tries to execute Rei, Kazuki stabs him in the back with the knife. Ogino tries to remove it, but Rei headbutts him resulting in the knife impaling the back of his throat and robbing him of his last words. As he lies in a pool of his own blood, Ogino tries to reach for his book to write the words down himself...only for a cigarette lighter to come flying in. It ignites with the gas and explodes, burning his book to a crisp and immolating him.
Is he bad enough?
As The Heavy for Shigeki, I would say so. He has the biggest body count of the show and while you could argue that some of his targets were more deserving such as the kingpin, Ryo has no reservations when going after innocent people if they stood in the way of his work such as killing Miri's mother despite being ordered to take out Miri and Kazuki. He was also the one who indirectly killed Kazuki's wife by setting off the explosion that engulfed her. As I have mentioned before, while Kazuki and Rei are motivated by financial gain (also helping that their targets are assholes such as Miri's biological father), Ryo is a sociopathic serial killer who is obsessed with documenting the last words of his victims.
What more is there to say? He tries to kill a 4-year-old in cold blood.
For others...there is Shigeki Suwa himself. As the head of the clan, any hit can be traced back to him. He has the especially despicable habit of targeting an assassin's family if he thought they had the inclination to betray the organization. He put his own son through abusive Training from Hell to make him a killing machine and insists on making him call him "Boss" rather than father. He even sends a dog to attack his own son unless he killed it.
And, of course, he was the one who sent Ogino to kill Miri and Kazuki all so he could keep a firm grip on his son. However at the end of the anime when Rei shoots his arm to reject inheriting his father's organization by making himself "worthless," Shigeki does try shooting him when his back is turned...only to decide against it.
Can't say if that suggests that he truly did care about his son to a degree or if he was merely irritated that he had no heir to inherit his legacy. Personally, since he went out of his way to deny Rei any affection, would lean toward the latter interpretation, but I'll leave that for you to decide.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?
No. He is a psychopathic madman who is obsessed with death. As for anything else, in episode 5 when Miri bumps into him, he looks at her inquisitively and puts her back on her feet, and leaves. This could be argued as a Pet the Dog moment since he could have killed the girl then and there but chose not to...but that is only because he didn't register her yet as being the obstacle in the way of his coworker's work. When he starts to catch on, he interrogates Kyu and conducts investigations into the family. And of course, there is him trying to kill her too when Shigeki ordered him and gloats about wanting to hear her and Kazuki's final words before he killed them. So...yeah.
With his interactions with Kyu, they are not redeeming either. Kyu is an informant on potential targets and works for the Suwa Clan. Ogino would often be the one that Kyu sends out to assassinate a target, but Kyu is obviously unnerved by him enough to try to remove Miri from Kazuki and Rei's care if it meant that he wouldn't go after them.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 20th 2023 at 11:14:58 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Adora, the High Priestess
An easy yes to Ryo.
Also, watched a fanfic what if where dr gero finds Goku just after he sacrificed his life to save Gohan from Raditz and turned him into an android. He might be a keeper since the author made no mention of the son who was the basis for Android 16, meaning no Even Evil Has Loved Ones.
"I just need one of you to come here to give your life to the sun god. It will be for the monkey city's glory."
Easy keeper for Ryo, another Obviously Evil piece of crap
Sorry about your loss, Geode.
Time for the second Cross EP, and here's where we start getting into "maybe" territory.
Who is He?
Muerte (played by Danny Trejo) is a ruthless gangster who wants to take over Los Angeles.
What has he done?
Debuting in the second movie, Murete has some of Callan’s men killed, then has the rest of his men killed as well during an assignment. Recruiting a small gang by killing one of them to prove his strength, Muerte has several gangs gunned down to take control over L.A.'s criminal underworld, including the Big Bad of the first movie Erlik (who's unceremoniously killed offscreen lol). Muerte kidnaps Callan's girlfriend Riley and hands her over to Gunnar to accomplish his plans of wiping out all life on Earth, and is last seen wielding the mythical red amulet to be used for something sinister.
In the third film, Muerte hands the red amulet to Drago for him to use, having him steal some plutonium so that he can rule Los Angeles. Muerte hopes to use the plutonium to make a bomb that will force the city to give him $2 billion, otherwise he’ll blow up downtown L.A and kill everybody in the city. Having Drago kill all of Callan's new girlfriend Sloane’s female crew, when his entire plan is foiled by the Cross team, Muerte promises something even greater than before... which is apparently a zombie outbreak from the forces of Hell itself, which is shown to cause a lot of damage to the city.
But that one page of zombies about to attack the city is really just a Sequel Hook to a fourth movie that hasn’t come out yet (it's been almost 4 years), so who knows when we'll get to see the zombies in action. According to the director's IMDB page, he's planning two more installments, but who knows when they'll happen.
Redeeming Qualities?
None really. He's kinda buddy-buddy with his minions and hoes, but he won't hesitate to hurt or kill them should they fail him or get out of line, and he doesn't mind the Cross team killing them if it means furthering his plans.
And he primarily views the many women with him in his base as just objects of lust, nothing else, even if he does weirdly take them out for tacos at the end of the third movie to celebrate a minor victory. I just blame bad writing for this one, sicne the movies try very hard to also be comedies, even if the villains' actions are still played straight.
He also calls Drago "an old friend", but he doesn't really cry or react when his supposed friend dies; he's just disappointed that he lost overall.
Heinousness?
Muerte doesn't really do anything too heinous in the second movie (he hands Riley over to Gunnar and Conrad to accomplish their plan, so I guess by technicality he assists in the attempt to wipe out all life), and it's not until the third one where they decided to actually make him live up to his moniker of an evil villain. He hopes to wipe out millions of people, all for the sake of money and power, sharing none of Gunnar's abilities nor his tragic lifestyle.
Which is funny considering the third movie pretty much has him as an Orcus on His Throne (Trejo literally doesn't stand up the entire movie, he just filmed all of his scenes in a single room in front of his laptop).
Conclusion
I think Muerte still has a chance.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 13th 2023 at 1:37:56 AM
"No running in the halls!"