Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Do we mind if I batch all my write-ups (assuming they all continue to be upvoted) when Duvoe's comes due? Gonna be a busy week and that would just put the others back by an extra day if that's cool? Idk if any OG anime fans are itching to see Hazanko come back ASAP or anything? lol
I'm cool with it
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to another version of Palpatine (at this point we need a whole separate Sub Page for Palpatine/j).
Also I’ll be discussing The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live tomorrow, and we have quiet a bit of ground to cover
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Apr 14th 2024 at 11:13:13 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
....Phenomenal
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for the Earl and Your Pal Friendpatine.
Agruss, Thomas, Gilda, Serpent, Garraka, Mordred, Rosa, Hans, Duvoe, Skull, Poynton and Palps
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Ock and Venom
Caesar
- The VVitch: The manipulative Devil takes the form of an aggressive, mischievous goat called "Black Phillip" in order to turn Thomasin into a witch. The progenitor of all witches, Black Phillip is indicated to take advantage of women at their lowest points so they will make a deal with him for power as witches, in exchange for their servitude to his evil. Under Black Phillip's purview, the witches disembowel and grind up babies; sexually violate children; and drive Thomasin's entire family into madness that culminates in all of their deaths. Black Phillip personally gores Thomasin's father and leaps with triumph at his demise, before convincing a tearful Thomasin to undress and sign her soul to him while he lecherously caresses her body. A seductive but ruthless corrupter, Black Phillip ends the story presiding over his coven of evil witches, now joined by a broken Thomasin.
Edited by Ravok on Apr 15th 2024 at 2:04:05 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Caesar
Due to how hype X-Men '97 has been, it's reminded me of a couple of baddies from the comics I been meaning to get to. Let's take a look-see at one of 'em now!
Who is Bastion? What has he done?
- Through a very complicated process that is way too long and complex to explain here, the Sentinel progenitor Master Mold and the future "advanced" Sentinel Nimrod underwent a Fusion Dance before being forcibly reincarnated into a new, organic being—this was Bastion. Left without memories of his past or his conception, yet taken in by a kindly woman named Rose, Bastion seemed destined for a new, normal life...but something gnawed at him every time he heard mention of or saw the name mutants.
- Driven by the latent desires of his Fusion Dance past, Bastion embraced a hatred for all mutantkind, and swore to exterminate them. He became a secret government official and created "Zero Tolerance", an operation dedicated to the genocide of mutants. Bastion would oversee the routine kidnapping of, experimenting on, and execution of mutants to design a plan to kill them all to "save" humanity—albeit, he very, very quickly shows the reader what kind of "savior" he is when he takes an ordinary human child as a hostage and shoots at the kid's mother to throw the heroes off his tail.
- In one nasty case, he captured young X-Men teenager Jubilee and subjected her to weeks of constant sensory deprivation and Mind Rape of her friends dying while Bastion brutally beat her, in an effort to extort information out of her. Other notable captives of Bastion at this time were the artifically-made children known as Mannites who Bastion similarly abused and would order killed at the first sign of heavy resistance; as well as Professor Xavier himself, who Bastion would torture to the distaste of his partners for hurting a dude in a wheelchair lmao
- One of Bastion's favorite methods of "fighting" mutants is False Flag Operation(s) out the wazoo. In his debut arc, he plans to slaughter an entire compound of his loyal government troops and their 50 families—including the children—and frame it on mutants. In later stories, Bastion creates a hyper-weaponized version of the infamous "Legacy Virus", and kidnaps mutants, injects them with it, then drops them into populated areas so that when the virus inevitably causes their powers to overdrive and wreak havoc, it will rack up a high human bodycount. In just one case of this, 1100 people are killed.
- Bastion's plans to exterminate mutants have ranged from stealing all of Xavier and Cerebro's data on them then attempting to leak it worldwide so that no mutant will be safe; to creating an army of "Prime Sentinels" to be used as sleeper agents. How are Prime Sentinels created? Bastion kidnaps ordinary humans and puts them through horrific Unwilling Roboticization to make them cyborg killing machines left with no souls or minds. He horribly sets up clinics meant to offer aid to veterans or disabled people, then slowly roboticies them against their knowledge until they are unwittingly sleeper agent timebombs. When one Prime Sentinel, a young woman named Ginny, fights her programming long enough to attempt to flee, Bastion tracks her down, shoots her dead, and snarks ''Malfunction corrected."
- One of Bastion's main goals for when he has his "victory" over mutants is to hunt down and exterminate everyone connected to each mutant's bloodline so that no traces of the gene are left anywhere on the planet.
- Bastion eventually discovers his true heritage of Sentinel nature, and quickly latches onto the truth of his status as a "supreme being" whose destiny it was to destroy mutants and bring all of humanity under his heel. Bastion's first plan when he discovers his ancestry is to begin a campaign of turning all humankind into his hollowed-out Prime Sentinels and then systematically cleanse the planet of mutants.
- Though he's killed...multiple times, Bastion repeatedly comes back, and makes his biggest outing in "Second Coming". Revived by the Purifiers, Bastion immediately takes over their group from their current boss, and harvests the sentient offspring of Magus to torture it into his own, twisted nanovirus. Bastion uses it to revive and/or enslave all of the X-Men's worst human foes (William Stryker; Cameron Hodge; Boliver Trask) as his "cabal" and use them to wage a new war against the X-Men.
- As an aside, all of this "cabal" still have their original minds intact, but several are horrified at their revival and what Bastion is making them do—the Leper Queen, for instance, hates mutants and is a mass murderer of them, but Bastion forces her body to carry out terrorist strikes against hundreds of humans while she literally prays to God for death on a regular basis. When Trask himself is freed from Bastion's control for a moment, he immediately, remorse fully kills himself rather than be enslaved again.
- Following the events of House of M that have left the mutant population only in the hundreds, Bastion creates a final plot to eliminate mutants and their "hope" for the future—represented literally here by the time-travelling mutant Hope, who Bastion plans to kill and eliminate any chance of the mutant population rising back to prominence. Bastion murders the heroic Nightcrawler and lures most of the remaining mutants to San Francisco and traps them—alongside 800,000 humans "collateral damage"—inside a time dome that sends wave after wave of Sentinels to destroy everything inside it or, failing at it, drag all living beings inside into the far future for extinction.
- Though once again beaten and his plan foiled, Bastion makes one last return to team up with Miss Sinister in a new plot...to save mutantkind. See, Bastion has recently seen a glimpse of a future where there are no mutants left for him to kill—and he finds it boring. Bastion plans to overpopulate Earth with mutants solely so he'll have a neverending supply of them to slaughter. He plans to carry this out by dropping loads of "Mothervine" onto the human population and forcing millions of humans into sudden, agonizing, sometimes lethal mutations—one panel shows a child whose every orifice has become a mouth crying for his mother—simply so that Bastion can then begin a new killing spree of them all.
- Luckily, Bastion is finally destroyed seemingly for good by the powerful mutant Xorn, who sacrifices himself to unleash his black hole powers and drag Bastion's entire being into its destructive center—and for 5+ years, Bastion has been no more.
Mitigating features?
His status as a merging of Master Mold and Nimrod is never used against him for agency. He has an "itch" against mutants from his conception and claims early on in his development that he "takes no pleasure" from their destruction and is simply "protecting humanity", but he very much grows into a downright sadistic dickhead and right from the start showcases his willingness to mass murder humans with cold-blooded calculus of "necessary sacrifices" to accomplish his goals. By the end of his (thus far) appearances, Bastion point-blank says "it is beyond my capacity to hate you or enjoy killing you. But I have evolved beyond my capacity, so I do hate you. And I will enjoy killing you."
Hell, Bastion's final arc has him plotting to mass produce mutants on a global scale solely so he'll always have something to kill. He previously entertained And Then What? should he ever succeed in his plot to "save humanity", and his final decision is proven to be "actually, let me just ensure there's always mutants I can kill and get a kick out of to give me purpose."
The closest thing to a genuine, honest to God redeeming feature Bastion has is his relationship with his surrogate mother, Rose, who found his amnesiac form after the Fusion Dance and tried to teach him "compassion and kindness" before he abandoned her to begin his mutant crusade. Early in his character story Bastion tracks her down and has an obvious fondness for her even as she derides him as a "monster." She's ultimately shot dead in front of him by misguided humans, and he lets out a Big "NO!"...but uh, it's then pretty thoroughly subverted. He doesn't just "never mention her again"—Bastion immediately shows no trace of sorrow, strides off and the narrative notes "With her passing, something within Bastion that had grown smaller and smaller over the years disappears entirely. Now, he cannot help but wonder...if he ever needed it to begin with."
He discovers his true, machine heritage soon after this, and he refers to Rose with only passing contempt at this point, remarking in-between his rants about evolving beyond emotion or humanity that "Even Rose was blinded to reality...I know not what lead me to return to her. Was I thinking I would bid her a final farewell? I did not comprehend the finality until she was cut down by a sniper's bullet meant for me. I shed no tears for her. Her death was inevitable."
Even if he may have had a level of care for her, it's both Depending on the Writer as well as even in the story itself illustrated that he's absolutely grown beyond it by the time he accepts his true nature of "godly" machine, and he willingly, openly declares a severing of all connections to humankind at this juncture. Which is kind of the point in his character where he genuinely does go from "typical human bigot who hates mutants" to "The Reveal of him being an amalgamation biotechnical time-travelling Sentinel Chad"
Heinousness?
Easily bad enough even for the X-Men standard, his schemes are routinely godawful horrid and range from "experimenting on children" to "killing thousands to frame mutants" to "turn all mankind into empty shell replicants of me". When even longtime X-Foes want to die rather than work for him, it says a lot ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Final Verdict?
Keep
Edited by Ravok on Apr 15th 2024 at 3:41:26 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Not the Eye
Easy Bastion
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Easy yes to Bastion. I'll have an X-Men of my own soon! (technically a crossover, but)
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
Jogo
Garranka, Mordred, another version of our old Pal-patine and Bastionnote
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Bastion.
The Legacy Virus story...I assume Stryfe doesn't count seeing as he was raised by Apocalypse?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Easy yes to Bastion.
Hoping to see him in x men 97 soon
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Yes to Bastion.
Yes to Bastion
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Bastion
Alrighty, it’s The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live time. Honestly I’ve gone around thinking how to do this, would y’all prefer an EP or a simple discussion post over what Beale does and the potential issues he has? Personally I think me just explaining the ladder could help a lot more. I personally think Beale manages to make it but wanna see others views on it and the best way for me to explain it
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Goku Black
Og right forgot to ask. Is their any reason comic master mold doesn't count (one of his components?)?
I'm aware nimrod has redeeming qualities but Mold has also tried genocide plots too.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I would prefer EP personally, but I am fine with whichever you choose.
Agruss, Thomas, Gilda, Serpent, Garraka, Mordred, Rosa, Hans, Duvoe, Red Skull, Poynton, our old friend Palpy, and Bastion; to Ock (I'm gonna have nightmares from all that Broken Record nonsense about his agency...) and Venom.
Edited by LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime on Apr 15th 2024 at 6:10:18 AM
You've been kicked out of the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. :(
Caesar
@mir: Comics Master Mold is actually gonna be my next post
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Lies and Violence!
Aye to Bastion.
Is Sentinel No. 2 on the list? I’ve been looking into him and he seems plenty bad enough.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I assume Bastion and Master Mold go under recurring villains?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Justice for Skywarp
Bastion
Here's a villain from a Transformers fan film.
What is The Work?
Heart of Steel: Crimson Skies is a Transformers fan film by TFI Creations, based on Transformers: Heart of Steel by IDW Comics.
The fan film is about the Autobots and Decepticons, here in mid-1800s America, going against each other for possession of important cargo. The Decepticon leader, Starscream, is not the candidate, but rather The Heavy of the piece, Scourge.
Who is Scourge? What does he do?
Back on Cybertron, Scourge was a Decepticon soldier who was noted for his resemblance to Optimus Prime, as he was built from him, and habitually decapitating his victims and putting their heads on pikes. When the Autobot Cliffjumper stumbled upon him and his menagerie of Cybertronian heads, the Decepticon let him live so he could tell the story to other Autobots.
On Earth, Scourge is assigned by Starscream to track down the cargo the Decepticons are after, which is being guarded by the Autobot Ratchet, who is on the run after a crew of seekers attacked him and two other Autobots, which resulted in their deaths.
When Scourge finally finds Ratchet, he interrogates the Autobot and stabs him with his blade to get the information. When Ratchet tries to tell him he doesn’t have him, the Decepticon kills him and takes his head.
When Cliffjumper and fellow Autobot scout Bumblebee stumble upon the scene, Scourge fires upon them and demands to know where the cargo is. However, one of the seekers alerts the black train Decepticons that he's found the cargo. This distraction gives Cliffjumper the chance to jump the villain and the two Autobots engage him in battle, which ends with both of them being thrown off a cliff by him, which they manage to survive.
Scourge and the seekers then proceed to take the cargo back to Starscream. When they rendezvous with the sinister seeker, however, they are ambushed by Bumblebee, Cliffjumper and Optimus, and the two factions engage in battle.
During the battle, Bee and Cliff grab the cargo and run, and Scourge pursues them. However, the Autobot scouts are derailed when the seekers destroy the tracks. Despite this, the two scouts flee into the woods.
Scourge is then greeted by the seeker Acid Storm, who was ordered to accompany him. Scourge tells the green seeker to piss off and Acid Storm points out that the rest of the group is fed up with Scourge’s lack of obedience, which leads to the hunter killing the seeker and taking his head.
Cliffjumper witnesses this act and he runs off with Scourge following him. When Scourge catches up, he beats Cliff and Bee and takes back the cargo. Scourge decides to finish off the two scouts, which leads to them running away, and starting a chase.
The chase does not end in Scourge’s favor however, as the scouts lead him to an unfinished railroad track, and Scourge, unable to transform in time, falls off the cliff to his apparent demise.
The cargo is then revealed to be dinosaur bones, which the Autobots and Decepticons plan on using to make dinosaurs to fight each other with.
The last we see of Scourge is Starscream lifting his train mode back up, and steam erupting from his chimney.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. While he does spare Cliffjumper when the two first meet, it’s only so the Autobot can spread the message to his fellow Autobots of his terror. And he’s perfectly willing to murder him in the present.
While it is mentioned he was built from Optimus, nothing indicates he has moral agency issues.
He also has no loyalty to his fellow Decepticons, as he's willing to disobey orders and even kills one of his teammates, and says he always wanted a Decepticon head for his collection.
Is He Heinous Enough?
I’d say so. He's a serial killer who takes the heads of his victims and mounts them on pikes. During the flashback, we get a glimpse at his past victims, with Cliffjumper noting he saw hundreds of heads. We also see him in action twice, killing Ratchet and Acid Storm. He's easily the most heinous villain in the work, with the only other villain with a kill count being the seeker Redwing, who only has Hound and Prowl under his belt.
Starscream is very much an Orcus on his Throne, and his only real acts are giving orders to his subordinates.
Verdict?
I say he's a yes, but it’s up to you guys.
Yes to another Palpatine. Speaking of which, I'm going to drop my EP for my Palpatine:
What If The Clone Troopers RESISTED AGAINST Order 66 (link
): Palpatine, upon realizing that Order 66 is a failure due to the bonds the clone troopers made with the Jedi, initiates his escape plan. Faced with a legion of clone troopers and five Jedi on the way out, Palpatine uses the unnatural powers of the Dark Side to mercilessly wipe them out. Escaping to his Star Destroyer, Palpatine is then killed when Republic ships, tipped off by a remorseful Anakin, rain fire on him.