Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Mathias Najarovski, Arcade and the Protagonist.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Naja.
Sure to Arcade.
The Protagonist sounds too genuinely insane to count.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for Arcade
Abstain on the Protagonist for now.
Fanfiction proponent
Scroop.
To Scroop
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
- Revelation (Hellaverse): Alastor, The Radio Demon, is portrayed as a sadistic and deranged tyrant. Murdering Lucifer, arresting and removing the power of Charlie Morningstar and her friends, and overtaking Hell for his own ambition, Alastor turns Hell into an even worst dictatorship where he punishes all crime, regardless of severity, and forces those in power to give up and be behind him or die. Instating the Crimson Guard, Alastor brutally suppresses and massacres anyone for even trying to question him, sending prisoners into The Pit Of Fire where their spirits are broken through torture before being thrown into a fire pit to burn to death slowly and painfully, already having done this to Stella for sparking a rebellion. Enraged over a minor criticism Moxxie made, Alastor placed a bounty on him and his associates, completely massacring Imp City out of spite while also chasing after Stolas and his daughter Octavia for their betrayal. Capturing Moxxie, Blitzo and Stolas, he subjects them to intense torture for his amusement and orders their execution date to draw out Moxxie and Octavia, while having any riots and protests be met with massacres like past ones. Capturing the fugitives, he proceeds to subject them to their own personal torture, forcing Ocatavia to endure her claustrophobia while torturing Moxxie to force him to stop the revolution against him, and proceeds to order all rebels to be executed when Moxxie refuses. Moving up the execution date due to learning of his right hand, Edrich, conspiring to help save them, Alastor remorselessly murders his once loyal servant and deemed him as a traitor. When Loona’s resistance stormed the prison and it goes down in flames, Alastor abandons Vox and Valentino to die as he turns into a giant monster to try and kill the resistance in one final attempt to keep his power that he believes he rightfully earns, all the while denying any wrongdoing and how he’s benefitting Hell by his regime.
Showtime!
Yeah, I'm concerned about the protagonist being insane to a genuinely mitigating degree
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sorry, but that's way too long
Goku Black
Uh I think I'll abstain on scroop. Not sure.
matthias
Can we get discussion on the protagnoist. This sounds way too divorced from reality.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gentle Laborer
Too long.
And yeah, I don't think the Protagonist is sane enough to count.
Like if they know what they are doing within their madness and they don't care and if them killing someone's bullies isn't shown as a good moment or subverted I could see them counting since it seems that they know they are hurting others and choses not to because he sees himself a god.
Edited by umaprasis on Jan 29th 2024 at 7:12:05 AM
Swap abstain to protagonist
Goku Black
Going to honest with you. Since this dude sincerly believes he's a dark being or whatever.
It sounds like he's legit insane so I'll give a cautious ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Not the Eye
- Batman :: Midnight Madness : The Joker is Batman’s Arch-Enemy who plots to kick off the New Year with a big crime. Breaking out of Arkham Asylum, the Joker takes the guests at a New Year party hostage and kills them all, beginning with the woman who interrupted his monologue. He disguises himself as a construction worker for a New Year’s Eve party at Gotham Square, before using Joker Toxin to kill all the workers when the construction chief recognises him. He fills the giant ball meant to commemorate the coming of a New Year with Joker Toxin, planning to drop it on the Square just as the clock strikes midnight and potentially kill the whole city. When Question tries to distract him, the Joker shoots him and reveals he has a back-up plan to just the drop ball on the crowd of people if Batman stops the release of the toxin, before attempting to kill Question with the toxin.
Arcade, does anyone have anything to say in the comic version, he sounds pretty vile.
Protag, too insane
Abstain on Scroop
Goku Black
I Dunno?
Arcade is both an x men and spider man villain so he'd have to compare to villains frlm both rogues galleries to keep and I dunno if he's bad enough.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Protagionist
Scroop. With Sikes at least the context is clear as to what he does
Scroop is a nasty character but I’m not sure if one standout murder, even out of splite, is enough for this trope.
While he is intended to be totally irredeemable, I think that sort of character would be more of a Hate Sink
No to Scroop because a CM isn't just an irredeemable villain imo. It's a combination of heinous acts, not just one brutal murder.
Hi! :3
to Scroop and Protagonist
Jogo
Switching to abstain on the Protagonist
Here's a reproposal for a candidate whose previous EP might have been plagiarized. While having somebody plagiarize a proposal to get a candidate approved is unfortunate, it did give me an excuse to replay one of my favorite Roblox games alongside its two predecessors.
What's the work
A Roblox Quest is a series of Roblox games made by Radiogamer, of which three are currently released: Quest to Guest, Bloxxy-Tooie and Elements of Robloxia. The games are Collect-a-thons heavily inspired by games like Super Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie and feature the player traveling across the land of Robloxia and collecting stuff to defend it from the forces of evil.The backstory goes as follows: Long ago, Robloxia was created by a Goddess who used five elements to hold the world together (Bravery, Knowledge, Might, Companionship and Kindness). These Elements are guarded by the people who embody them the most, but should these elements fall into the wrong hands, chaos and destruction will be spread across the world.
Who is the Phantom Orb and what have they done?
The Phantom Orb is the main antagonist of the series. He is a shadowy phantom who seeks to claim the Elements of Robloxia to Take Over the World.- Our story begins when a Guest is bullied by three Roblox players. The Guest runs off into a cave to escape the bullies and comes across the Phantom Orb, who promises to solve his problems if he touches him. The Guest touches him, and as a result, he is brainwashed into trying to conquer the world. Guest proceeds to attack his bullies, which is stated to be "too cruel to see." in a censor screen.
- When the player manages to defeat Guest, Phantom Orb reveals that he was behind Guest's actions in the game and proceeds to fight the player. Our hero manages to defeat him, but the Phantom Orb attempts to kill them and Guest by blowing himself up. However, the act is unsuccessful as Guest sacrifices himself to protect the player from the explosion. Both our heroes and Phantom Orb manage to survive this, with the latter successfully stealing the Element of Companionship from Guest.
- In Bloxxy-Tooie, Phantom Orb possesses a witch named Graciela and uses her body to attack Mayahem Temple. During this attack, he destroys the sacred Jiggy, scattering its pieces across the land (and might have also killed two villagers since they don't appear after this attack). One of the scattered pieces was found by Dr. Rad and Guest, who sent the player to investigate.
- The player proceeds to explore the Isle o' Jiggs, reclaims the lost jiggies, frees the possessed Graciela and saves the world once again. After being defeated once more, Phantom Orb leaves the Isle o' Jiggs in anger, while also having successfully stolen the Element of Knowledge from Graciela.
- In Elements of Robloxia, Phantom Orb attacks Roblox HQ to steal the Element of Might and kills Shedletsky once he refuses to give the Element to him. Telamon, the elements' guardian, uses his power to protect himself from Phantom Orb, but the latter decides to wait things out and starts initiating his new plan: building a device called the Omedarktron to conquer the world by covering it in darkness.
- When the player sets out to defeat him once more, Phantom Orb makes several attempts to stop them reaching Roblox HQ by sending henchmen to slow them down and brainwashing Grooxe into fighting them. Our hero manages to successfully reach Roblox HQ and destroys the Omedarktron, foiling Phantom Orb's plans once more.
- Tired that his attempts to conquer Robloxia keep failing, Phantom Orb kidnaps Petunia (revealed to be the holder of the Element of Kindness) and decides if he can't conquer the world, then he'll destroy it instead. Phantom Orb and our hero proceed to fight, with the former nearly killing the latter until Betiella saves our protagonist by teleporting him to the Goddess' Island.
- Our hero wakes up again as it's revealed that the Phantom Orb stole the souls of Element guardians, sucking all life out of their bodies. Using the elements within said souls, Phantom Orb empowers himself in order to destroy the world and engages the player in one last battle. Our hero manages to free the souls of the element holders, returning life to their bodies, but they remain weakened until George restores them to their normal strength with potions. The element guardians use their powers to create a final attack as our hero strikes it with their sword. The attack hits Phantom Orb, putting an end to his reign of terror once and for all.
Any migating factors?
Nah, he's just some jerk with plans for world domination who's perfectly willing to both murder his pawns and destroy the world out of spite if his plans fail. Despite his appearance, there isn't any indication that he's Made of Evil nor is he given a Freudian Excuse.He does have three comedic moments, but these don't detract from his villainy, as the characters and narrative continue to take him seriously as a threat. Even when one of these comedic moments is his defeat, it does not impact his seriousness, as the comedic part of the defeat is more focused on making a joke about Fred and his visor obsession than making one about him, and he's given a proper and non-comedic defeat after that moment by being hit by the Element Guardians' final attack.
Is he bad enough?
He's the Big Bad of the series, so he sets the heinous standard. There also isn't any real competition in the series since the only other antagonists are either people manipulated by or working for him, non-sapient creatures who don't affect the heinous standard, or villains who have their crimes limited to trying to kill the protagonist.Now that we've established Phantom Orb as the most heinous character in the series, the question is whether he crosses the baseline or not. If you were to judge him by the first two games, then I'd say he doesn't count due to his villainy being limited to brainwashing a person and having him attack three people (which is Played for Laughs), trying to kill both the protagonist and his former pawn after his defeat, possessing somebody and using their body to destroy a village (and given that two of the villagers shown within the prologue of Bloxxie-Tooie aren't shown later in the game, his attack might have killed two people, but I'm not sure if there's enough onscreen evidence to prove the villagers died). That changes in Elements of Robloxia, where Phantom Orb not only kills Shedletsky, but also tries to destroy the world out of spite after his plans are foiled and steals the souls of four people to empower himself. The soul-stealing is also given enough weight to allow him to pass the baseline, as the bodies of the people he stole the souls of are described as lifeless and stiff prior to the final battle.
I should probably mention that the series is connected to the Polyhex's Roblox Adventure series, given that their Author Avatar appears in the third world of Elements of Robloxia and the main shopkeeper of the third Roblox Adventure game appears in the epilogue level of Elements of Robloxia and is stated to be Fred's cousin. But even when taking the Roblox Adventure villains into consideration, Phantom Orb still manages to pass: The worst villain in Roblox Adventure only tries to steal the world's creativity and doesn't attempt to destroy it like Phantom Orb and doesn't steal souls to empower himself.
Final verdict
I give a yes to Phantom Orb, who (surprisingly) manages to be both worse than was indicated in his original EP and also much worse than I remember him being. (since I thought his villainy was generic when I first played the games many years ago)Edited by jlvs200s on Feb 16th 2024 at 7:20:19 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, sure. Trying to destroy the world seems bad enough.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Phantom Orb
Orb
Protagonist
Yes to the Phantom Orb.
Anyone mind if I take the liberty of reserving Final Fantasy VII Rebirth?
he/him
First draft for Uranos:
- Uranos, "the Undying", was created by the Celestials as one of the immortal Eternals' ruling triad. Considering Eternals superior to mortals, Uranos despised their duty as guardians of Earth. He eventually mounted a Zeroth Law Rebellion, subverting the Principles that limit Eternal free will and urging his followers to imprison the Celestials and end all non-Eternal life on Earth and beyond. When defeated and captured, Uranos warned that Earth would be automatically annihilated by his hidden armory if he was killed or mind-wiped. After a century failing to break his will, the Eternals imprisoned him. Still imprisoned over half a million years later, he briefly became an ally of sorts to Thanos, entrusting the mad titan with his armory (after initially scolding him for only killing ''half'' the universe). Later released as a Boxed Crook, he waged war on the mutant world of Arakko for an hour before being teleported back to his cell — slaughtering over 98% of all life in a 50 mile radius. Released a second time, as a last resort, he immediately betrayed his patron and tried to destroy the Earth. A third attempt to deploy Uranos this way was abandoned after a telepathic glimpse of his mind; even in the face of death from a demon-corrupted army, he was considered too dreadful to release.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Protagonist
