Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
No. They are pretty much depicted as being corrupted by Jhon, who manipulated them using their mental problems. For example, serial killer, who murdered people with a hammer, killed himself at the end of his game (at Jhon's command), with the protagonist taking his mask and going off to kill people as well (since Jhon managed to corrupt him as well). Cannibal lady, was depicted having clear mental problems, with her being a cannibal is a result of Jhon's manipulations. School shooter guy killed himself at the end of his game, with his dialogue showcasing him as a bit too loyal to Jhon. Same problem with the protagonist of the final game.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jan 27th 2023 at 10:05:09 PM
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Marty, Dean, Mr. and Mrs. Hitler.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Conduit.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to the Conduit.
Now for the even older inspiration to an already classic villain from me.
What's the work?'
Un Capitano Moro or A Moorish Captain is a short revenge/tragedy by Italian author Cinthio and mostly known as the basis of Othello. As one would expect, it involves a jealous subordinate plotting behind the hero (simply called the Moor here) for the pettiest of reasons.
Who is the Ensign? What has he done?
Iago's predecessor, the ostensibly helpful Ensign is "a man of handsome figure, but of the most depraved nature in the world" and lusts for the Moor's wife Disdemona and decides she must die if he can't have her. To set his plan in motion, the Ensign begins whispering in the Moor's ear about Disdemona's supposed affair with his friend and trusted lieutenant, the Captain. Gaslighting him more and more, the Ensign eventually spins the Moor on his wife's infidelity and the two plot to murder her and her lover.
Setting out on the dead of night after convincing the Moor to pay him handsomely, the Ensign attacks the Captain from the shadows, severing his leg as the Ensign remains hidden, though the Captain lives to call for help, a gathering crowd forcing the Ensign to relent and pose as an onlooker drawn in by the screams.
Believing the Captain will bleed to death, the Ensign returns and suggests he and the Moor beat Disdemona to death together with a sand-filled stocking so as to avoid bruising. Joining the Moor at night, the Ensign springs out from a closet and savagely beats a begging, confused Disdemona to death... unfortunately for him, afterwards the Moor begins feeling guilty, firing the Ensign and distancing himself as a result.
For revenge the Ensign approaches the Captain and claims the Moor attacked him in the dead of night. Backing the Captain's claims in court, the Moor is sentenced to torture, though he bravely resists and refuses to confess to his deeds. Banished from the city, the Moor himself is later killed by Disdemona's vengeful family while the Ensign returns back to his home country. In another scheme, the Ensign tries to set up a co-conspirator to kill a local noble, before implicating said conspirator when their plan is discovered. The conspirator is tortured to death... though the Ensign isn't so lucky this time, as he's ordered tortured as well to ensure he isn't leaving anything out of his story. He survives but later dies in agony of his wounds, yay!
Mitigating factors?
He's just as bitter as Iago to follow. The Ensign has a wife of his own but holds no affection for her, he's a horrid man spurred by his Lust Object being married and resolves to cruelly kill her and destroy the life of the man who took her to assuage his envy.
Heinousness?
While the story lacks the length of the later Othello the Ensign's kills and manipulations are punctuated with the same awfulness: he cuts a man's leg off to let him bleed out, he brutally beats the woman he "loves" to death and he adores the chance to destroy the Moor for possession something he wants. He later knowingly sets his "friend" up to be tortured till confession and unlike Iago, who's sentenced to death at this point in the play, he heads off to try and restart the whole thing.
It's a couple nasty schemes plotting at least five deaths and two horrible tortures, with truly wicked designs.
Verdict?
Keeper.
Also for the record Iago plays out differently enough with the crime of killing his own wife, so there's no need to discuss a cut from adding the Ensign.
Goku Black
Ensign (aka Proto-Iago).
Professor Gigachad
Ensign, this guy seems straight-up worse than Iago, which is impressive.
He doesn't murder his own wife, he's just a callous dick to her. Nasty style points for both imo.
Ensign, Conduit
Ultimate Moral Compass
Ensign
Yes to the Ensign and The Conduit
Not the Eye
Conduit and Ensing (wondered obout him)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Ensign. Small rap sheet, but given the time period I'll allow it.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Conduit and Ensing
Showtime!
to the Ensign
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to the Ensign.
Rawr.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Ensign.
Woagh
to Ensign and The Conduit.
To close off mine allowed number of candidates for this period of time
What's the Work?
INDICTED is a horror game made by 616 GAMES and released in 2021. The game follows the detective Arthur Connor, who have been tasked with investigating the dissaperance of a child near the abandoned Orphanage R.I.S. As he goes there, he uncovers some dark secrets and that he may not even be alive now.
Full walkthrough of the game can be watched here:
My candidate is the secret main antagonist of the game - Sara Morgan.
Who is Sara Morgan?
The owner of R.I.S. Orphanage, Sara initially posed as a kind person, who welcomed many homeless children to her Orphanage and took care of them. In reality it's been revealed that she abused them harshly and even tortured and killed some in secret dark rituals in the basement. Giving birth to Sophie in the past, she kept her status as her daughter a secret, as she continued to harshly punish children for minor mistakes (Sophie included). When the detective Arthur Connor decided to adopt Sophie, Sara tried to stop him, before having an outbust and killing all children in the Orphanage and nuns, who worked there.
Using Sophie as a human shield against Arthur, who came to stop her, she forced Arthur to shoot her anyway, killing both her and Sophie. As Arthur (who killed himself in grief) was damned to Hell for killing Sophie, and there he is forced in a loop, where he is sent to investigate the abandoned Orphanage and discover dark secrets there and then getting chased by Sara, after which he is tortured and then his memory is erased and cycle goes all over again. Sara in turn is gleefully stalks and chases him across the Orphanage, happily mocking and taunting him, forcing him to watch the moment where he killed her and Sophie, eager to resume torturing him again.
Redeeming Qualities?
While i was intially worried that she may had some care for Sophie, in the letter she reffered to her as "my little girl" and refused to let Arthur adopt her, this is never properly developed and she (as the slideshow at the end showed) had no issues using her as a human shield, only gleefully mentioning her to torture Arthur with the fact that he failed to save Sophie, never even showing that she cared about her dying.
Heinousness?
Slaughtered the whole Orphanage full of children and nuns, who worked there, giving her bodycount of dozens in numbers, plus torture of children in dark rituals makes her nastier. We see skeletons and body parts in the Orphanage, newspapers, that we see, talk about the Massacre and we see photos of children, taken before the Massacre, making it go out of Offscreen Villainy territory.
Conclusion?
What do you think?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:42:49 PM
What is the work?
Alien Chronicles is a trilogy of science fiction novels by Deborah Chester. It is set in the galaxy-spanning Viis Empire, where multiple mammalian slave-species (collectively known as the abiru) toil under the reptilian Viis. The book primarily follows Ampris, an abiru who goes from little more than the Viis princess' pet to the leader of the abiru rebellion. Think a mixture of Star Wars and Book of Exodus with a bit of Spartacus thrown in.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Ehssk is the head researcher of the Vess Vaas institute, and is responsible for finding a cure for the Dancing Death plague that once ravaged the Viis population. Noting that the various abiru species are unaffected by the disease, Ehssk seeks to splice their genetic immunity over to the Viis. In order to study this process, he artificially impregnates captive abiru women with half-Viis hybrids. The resultant hybrids are dissected, and the women killed when they can no longer bear children.
In the second book, Ampris is imprisoned at Vess Vaas at one point, where Ehssk forces her to bear a litter of three half-Viis cubs. Her daughter is dissected by Ehssk shortly after birth, but she manages to escape with her two sons and the other captives not long after. They destroy the institute behind them, but Ehssk was absent at the time.
In the third book, it's established that Ehssk's experiments produced little if any useful results, despite everything he put his captives through. The Viis empress regards his murder of Ampris' daughter with disgust, implying that his actions are horrific even by Viis standards (which is really saying something). Ehssk ultimately escapes Ampris' attempt at revenge during the climax, leaving him at large.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Ehssk seems to genuinely believe his actions are necessary to cure the Dancing Death, which has caused widespread death, genetic defects and general societal trauma among the Viis. He also addresses his captives with more civility than most Viis characters use with the abiru.
Are they bad enough?
While most Viis characters in the trilogy view the abiru as animals, Ehssk's treatment of them is degrading on a much deeper, more violating level. His experiments essentially boil down to Medical Rape and Impregnate followed by a You Have Outlived Your Usefulness for the unfortunate victims. It's all carried out in a clinical and systematic manner, having clearly been going on for years (with one prisoner having been driven insane after being artificially impregnated more than a dozen times). And despite their cynicisms about his methods and results, the Viis Empire's desperation to cure the Dancing Death means Ehssk has extensive funding and resources.
In terms of narrative role, he's a major antagonist for more than a third of the trilogy, pulling a Karma Houdini at the end.
Final verdict?
Definitely a Complete Monster.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to the Ensign (funny how Iago is actually less evil than his inspiration).
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
My only concern there is "Ehssk seems to genuinely believe his actions are necessary to cure the Dancing Death"
This guy's a bang up slam dunk in heinousness, but that makes him sound a bit too like he's got altruistic motives
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 27th 2023 at 12:54:20 PM
Yes to Sara but echoing concerns about Ehssk. Saying he's civil with his captives isn't inspiring any confidence in me either.
Not the Eye
Yes to Sara. Would like to hear more about Eshhk’s mindset, civility towards his test subjects seems more like Faux Affably Evil considering what he does to them.
Edit: Don't wanna break the four proposals per page rule
Edited by LordYAM on Jan 27th 2023 at 1:37:42 AM
Got a new fanfic duo to propose so let's not waste any time.
What is the Work?
Mega Man: Defender of the Human Race is a fanfic of the Mega Man franchise that is primarily based on the Ruby-Spears cartoon series, serving as a pseudo sequel to that. The plot mostly follows the original cartoon with Mega Man going up against Dr. Wily, but it does introduce some new threats to talk about.
Who is The Conduit and What Has He Done?
The Conduit is a recurring villain in the series, he is the leader of a small organization of minions dedicated to an as-of-yet-unknown motive. The Conduit spends the majority of the series unmentioned and solely in the background, he only starts getting mentioned in Episode 7 and even then he makes very few scatter appearances usually talking with his minions, often Mr. Black, about whatever happens to be going on. The Chapter ends with Mr. Black reporting to The Conduit about Mega Man and orders Mr. Black to take care of him no matter what he has to do.
Episode 8 has Tinsel and Mr. Black are sent by The Conduit to pull off a massive operation to steal a bunch of movie which Tinsel is able to get away with while framing another person, a person which Conduit wants out of the way for his still unknown plan. Episode 9 has Mr. Black continuing to work for The Conduit and eventually he gets in contact with Tinsel again for a brand new mission at the very end. Episode 10 has Mr. Black steal the SkyCar for The Conduit but gets pulled back before he can do anything else as The Conduit is still playing the long game. The Conduit would later learn that Mr. Black kept intel from the car hidden from him and plans to have him killed for it, however, Mr. Black is able to hold the intel hostage to get Conduit to reluctantly abide. Conduit threatens Tisel with harming their entire family if they don't help him with Mr. Black.
Conduit would end up getting caught up with Dr. Wily's big plan though and is forced to use Mr. Black and Tisel to stop him as his plan is a threat to his own for the time being. Conduit has Tisel infiltrate Wily's ranks as part of this effort. Conduit is able to use this whole situation to force a reluctant Mr. Black into continuing to help him with the promise of killing Dr. Wily.
By the time of Chapter 12 the true horror of The Conduit's plan is finally revealed, he wants to kill Dr. Wily that he can use the construct a massive virus that will infect and disable every single robot in the entire world eventually wiping them all out. Mr. Black ends up disgusted with what he is planning which leads him to be even more conflicted in what path he is taking. Mr. Black/Agent Barton turns on Conduit so Conduit sends some of his bots to kill him but Barton is able to escape before they can. Conduit goes through with the plan anyway and lures Dr. Wily over to make a deal, offering Wily the super-powerful Jadous Sphere before turning on him, Conduit forces Tisel to help him with the virus as he makes the deal. However, the interference from the heroes ends up shattering the Jadous Sphere and Conduit is forced to leave knowing that his plan has failed at the moment, now back to staying in the shadows plotting his next move and waiting.
In Chapter 15, Conduit learns that Dick Ferguson has information that could ruin his entire plan so he sends his bots off to kill him, which eventually does work. By the end of the Chapter, everything has come into place for Conduit, he has finished working on the Roboenza virus, Conduit has masterminded the massacre of an entire group of Police officers and a young girl and framed ProtoMan for it, and all of the heroes are seemingly out of the way. At this point it is also revealed that Conduit is actually Governor Deacon's chief of staff, Mr. Rehnquist, but his real name is actually Lex Loath III, the grandson of the same character from the Mega Man Legends series, he also intends to frame Governor Deacon for all of his crimes. It looks like that the Conduit is about to win.
In Chapter 16, the virus is raging across the city, and hundreds to thousands of robots are already dead from this pandemic. At this point Conduit's partner Glyde is also revealed though he isn't the most important. It is also revealed that Conduit plans to dispose of all of his minions except Glyde as he still needs him once they have all outlived their usefulness. Luckily the heroes are able to make it back up and after a lot of struggles Conduit is defeated and him and all his associates are arrested and put in jail likely for the rest of their lives.
Does He have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nothing at all. Conduit is presented as nothing more than a complete asshole who wants to wipe out all robots out of personal dislike of them. The trope page does list him as a Benevolent Boss but if that is true (which I doubt) it's not really redeeming, he only provides supplies so they can help and is willing to kill his minions if they disobey him and eventually planned to just get rid of all of them. He doesn't even have any loyalty to Glyde just viewing him as a useful tool for his goals.
Does He meet the Heinousness Standard?
He doesn't quite have the scale of Sunstar who I will be talking about next, who is a planet destroyer. However, in terms of quantity of actions he is easily the worst in the series, unleashing a horrible virus the kills a large amount of robots to wipe them amount, frames ProtoMan for a massacre he himself caused, is a pretty awful Bad Boss who is willing to employ blackmail and murder to get people to work with him, kills a rather large amount of characters, and more. For his resource tier, he is easily the worst in the series even with Sunstar.
Final Verdict?
Yep.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes