Complete Monster Cleanup

Yeah, like, is redemption even presented as an option for Goedelitz?

Redemption is presented as an option anyone can take to walk away from the path of evil—Goedelitz is a character in the manga, so his ability to do so can be inferred thematically—Monster is a work with a lot of nuance to the villainy and not including the blurb which we've long since agreed is crucial to the work, would be a disservice to a CM entry in the manga.

Ah, fair enough.

Cut out Johan. It’s sad to lose such a famous and legendary CM, but as 43110 noted, there have long been prerequisites that there might be something good in him.

I rewatched the Some Conscience Lost episode of Ripper Street and can happily confirm that Cornelius Wilde matters. Ji, however, either made a part of the inaccuracy or deliberately decided to “expand” his actions, but he does not strangle the children. He really poisons them, but he does not strangle them. Also, he does not claim that he cannot cure children or that they themselves are to blame for this sick. Instead, he makes excuses, claiming that poverty awaited them anyway and that they would still die miserable and useless to anyone. Reed even asks him with quiet hatred and rage:who is he to decide who lives and who doesn’t?

Although Wilde claims that he killed children solely for their sake and out of mercy and that he helped many others, it is quite clear that this is just an excuse and that he killed children solely out of laziness and not wanting to spend money and effort on them . And even though it looks like he helped others, that’s just pragmatism. If the children did not graduate normally, he would not have a good reputation and, of course, more money. Moreover, he does not care at all what happens to the children as soon as they are released.

As with the Redskin, for example, who became a criminal and started a rebellion, while he spoke very negatively about Wilde and claimed that it was he who started the “game” of life and death and that it was he who needed to be killed. Although Wilde crosses only one MEH and actually commits one heinous crime, this is the rare case where one MEH and one crime is enough to pass the heinous standard. His mass poisoning of children is so horrendous that it easily sends him well beyond the disgusting standard. It is important to note that Reed, who had already seen a lot of depravity and abomination, as well as extremely terrible people (at least before Wilde, he encountered most, if not all C Ms, except Wilde).

But still? He is absolutely horrified and you can clearly see how furious he is and how much he hates Wild for his brutality. This only makes him stand out more when in-universe, a strong and very cold-blooded and also cool Detective Inspector becomes outright horrified, and then turns into pure and then cold rage and hatred, despite all the terrible and disgusting the things he encountered speak perfectly to how monstrous and vile Wilde is. Sorry for taking so long to explain, although I could have simply said that he was taken into account, but I just wanted to reassure everyone that he perfectly meets the disgusting standard, despite the very gloomy situation. Basically, keep he. I'll rewrite his review tomorrow.

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jan 7th 2024 at 1:18:28 AM

Can you rewrite him than.

Yes can. I will do he tomorrow.

So since the only resonse I've gotten for Telsin is in favor of keeping her, and I thought it would only amount to a write-change anyway, I've fixed the incorrect information, and also added, changed, and streamlined a few things to be a closer to how she is framed in the story.

• Telsin Ladrian/Sequence is a ruthless member of the Set, and is the very worst of their ranks, far from the sister Wax once knew. Overseeing the torture and experimentation of Malwish, Telsin fools her brother into thinking that she was an unwilling participant, even killing one of her own men to maintain the guise. Telsin ultimately uses this opportunity to shoot her own brother when he's off guard. After the search for the Bands of Mourning turns against her, Telsin promptly flees and leaves all her subordinates behind. Resurfacing six years later, Telsin masterminds a plot to destroy the entire city of Elendel and its millions of inhabitants, claiming that it is necessary to stop an invasion from the god Autonomy, when in reality, her plan will be nearly as destructive as the invasion, and is actually intended to impress Autonomy enough so that they will make Telsin a god. When it appears her plan will succeed, Telsin reveals to Wax that she has always hated him since childhood, and gloats about her success over him, revealing her to be nothing more than a petty and callous individual who only cares about proving herself superior to her brother, indifferent to the countless lives that her actions take.

• Telsin Ladrian/Sequence is a ruthless manipulator driven by an endless desire for more. A rule-breaker since childhood, she became much worse as she grew older, rising to be a high-ranking member of the Set, who recruited her similarly high-ranking uncle Edwarn. Found overseeing the torture and experimentation of Malwish, Telsin fools Wax into thinking that she was an unwilling participant forced by Edwarn, even killing one of her own men to maintain the guise. Telsin ultimately uses this opportunity to shoot Wax, her own brother, when he's off guard. When things begin to go poorly, Telsin promptly flees leaving Edwarn and all her subordinates behind. Resurfacing six years later, Telsin masterminds a plot to destroy the city of Elendel, inhabited by millions, claiming that it is necessary to stop a more destructive invasion from the god Autonomy, yet Telsin ignores less violent solutions, with the plan actually intended to impress Autonomy enough so that they will make Telsin a god. When it appears her plan will succeed, Telsin reveals to Wax that she has always hated him since childhood, and gloats about her success, revealing her to be nothing more than a petty and callous individual who only cares about proving herself superior to others, indifferent to the countless lives that her actions take.

Edited by Malginel on Jan 7th 2024 at 2:53:22 AM

So one I'd like to discuss a bit. From Are You Afraid of the Dark?:

• "The Tale of the Captured Souls": Peter Kirlian III lives alone in a small inn. Keeping his youth and life after a century via the lives of others, Peter lures innocent people to his inn and uses mirrors to drain their lifeforce, keeping them listless and weak until they "check out" and he buries their bodies behind the inn, with a recorded body count of over twenty men, fifteen women, over thirty children, and ten dogs.

EP here. Reviewing the episode (link), I'm not so sure I hear his final bit as just flat resignation to his fate. In particular I don't think he's trying to be ominous to Dani when he tells her to enjoy her youth "For now", it sounds to me intoned with genuine pathos and right after "I'm going out back now to join my family" he says "It's been far too long." I don't think the writing is so much going for Complete Monster as it is having the villain come to terms with his defeat in a manner I do find unusually graceful for this trope. It's ambiguous but the dialogue about his family also does feel like an implication of care.

I do acknowledge these are subjective qualities but I think a discussion would be useful. It's a strange end but comes in around the 22:20 timestamp if anyone wants to check it out.

Thoughts?

to Telsin rewrite

Lean to cuting Peter. It seems to me that if anything there is some fondness for his family at least, plus melancholy feel his entire last apperance has.

Not available in the US

Yeah I'd lean Cut on Peter watching it, seems genuine in his final words in a weird way.

Chop Peter.

So Johan Liebert himself finally got cut. I even saw him on the Resolved Items list under the "is a CM" section. How long has it been since people first began thinking about cutting an example as prominent as him? Was the material that showed him being a non-CM a very new or recent release?

The novel was already out by the time the manga wrapped up. No one had actually read a translation of it, but now a user did hence what we ended up deciding.

Cut Peter.

• Black Manta, real name David, makes his living as a brutal pirate, often in the employ of others, and is obsessed with destroying Aquaman at all costs. To this end, Manta killed Aquaman's infant son by trapping him in a chamber that suffocated the boy, despite Arthur's best efforts to save him. Manta continues to torment his nemesis by targeting and murdering those he can, proving himself to be a ruthless sociopath who has attempted to raze Atlantis as a means of spiting Aquaman. Not even Manta's own family is exempt from his cruelty: his own son, the new Aqualad, was the target of Manta's wrath when Manta attempted to murder him with zealous hatred, for no other reason than rejecting the path Manta wanted for him. In Brightest Day, Manta tries to go straight, opening up a fish market, but when the customers rejoice that Aquaman is alive, Manta murders them with a knife, before burning down his own house and resuming his quest for vengeance. He later aids Siren in an attempted genocide of all surface dwellers and personally spearheads an attack on California. Manta is a vicious, hateful murderer who would poison the entire ocean just for the chance to hurt his nemesis.

Call me a nitpick but I don't know why burning down his house is really that bad. Does he have family in the house, or does the fire spread and harm his neighbors? Either way context is needed.

Edited by randomtroper89 on Jan 7th 2024 at 8:54:08 AM

Johan

Well this is a pretty historic moment for TV tropes, never thought I would see this coming at all.

Cut Peter. [Tactlessly snarky criticism of his writeup that I have redacted.]

Edited by ShootingStar7X on Jan 8th 2024 at 10:52:53 AM

I’m going to be honest, that just sounded rude.

I wasn't meaning to be rude. I just think his writeup could've been written better and ended up taking my snark a little too far. Sorry.

Edited by ShootingStar7X on Jan 7th 2024 at 8:43:27 AM

I was looking at the Star Wars CM page, and I saw this:

• The Truce at Bakura:
  • Palpatine is revealed to have made a deal with the alien species called the Ssi-ruuk: In exchange for Ssi-ruuk technology, Palpatine would give the Ssi-ruuk numerous worlds and thus millions if not billions of humans which could be used for entechment.
  • Two other CM entries not relevant to the discussion at hand

This entry reads rather weirdly to me, but more relevantly, the book in question is part of the primary Legends continuity, and I’m not sure why this specific book needs an entry for Palpatine when the larger continuity it’s part of has a CM entry for Palpatine already, as well as the fact that there are other books that have Palpatine in them that do not have their own CM entries. I think this specific entry for Palpatine ought to be cut due to being redundant.

Edited by Critica7 on Jan 8th 2024 at 4:42:01 AM

So real quick, I wanna make an adjustment to Junior Hendergast to account for a re-appearance, adding one final line at the end:

• Phantoms in the Camp: Junior Hendergast is the monstrous cannibalistic son of Dorian Hendergast, who developed a taste for human flesh from birth, devouring his mother and father and many more, until he was killed. Turning into a powerful Phantom after death and creating his own Pocket Dimension, where he dragged the souls of his victims to enslave them to his will, Junior was responsible for the summer camp massacre in 1982, killing everyone but Sandy, leaving her alive solely so she would suffer endless fear and nightmares through the years, which made her "tastier" for Junior to hunt down, after she would eventually return to the ruined camp two years later to face her fears. Reducing most of the souls of his victims to a feral state, Junior tried to capture Sandy, and should she fail to collect all chants to seal him away, Junior will turn her into his minion and order her to slaughter her friends. In A House for Alesa 3, Junior returns as the most despicable of Mr. Alfred's three generals, helping his boss transform the world into one big horror while trying to make Alesa his next meal.

Is that last sentence the only change?

I added two ‘the’s for grammar, but that’s it; other than that, it is unaltered.

Please add to the Drafts.