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The Light Novel namespace and example placement

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It has been agreed by crowner to merge the Light Novel/ namespace into Literature/.

LightNovel namespace index -- excludes redirects

It has been agreed by crowner that Light Novel examples are to be sorted on trope pages as follows:

  • If you're adding an example with LN in mind, place it in Literature.
  • If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, but unsure if it was present in LN, place it in Anime/Manga.
  • If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, but know it also happened in the source, place in in Literature.
  • If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, and sure it did not happen in the source, place it in Anime/Manga even if the work is already listed in Literature.
  • If you're moving an example, for example when renaming or handling redirects, and don't know much about other versions, instead just leave it where it was.
  • If you know all versions of the work, move examples to the medium they're first featured in.
  • Webcomic examples with adaptation go to either Webcomics or Anime/Manga following the above logic.
  • Web Serial Novel are still Literature.
  • There is to be no dedicated Light Novel folder or subpage on trope pages.

Edge case rulings:


Original post below.

This has now come up twice in Ask The Tropers in the past year that I know of.

The issue is pretty straightforward: where do we put examples from Light Novels on trope pages?

General options previously proposed:

  • Put them in Anime and Manga since they're commonly adapted into them.
  • Base things on the original medium, and group them with Literature.
  • Take a Third Option and create a Light Novel folder.

Points about this media space that are commonly raised:

  • The manga and especially anime adaptations tend to be more available and more familiar to the Western audiences that comprise most tropers.
  • The adaptations into manga and anime are usually very faithful Compressed Adaptations, so most trope examples apply to all versions.

ETA: Related issue that came up:

Here's a link to pages that are in the LightNovel/ namespace.

Edited by Tabs on Nov 22nd 2022 at 9:50:41 AM

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#502: Dec 9th 2022 at 11:51:04 PM

I would like the mods to clarify: can mod actions modify the name and/or namespace of a page without causing history loss? There are some work pages that have the title length issues I raised before and have not been moved yet. Should I wait for now action and should I just do the move myself?

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#503: Dec 10th 2022 at 2:54:51 AM

Yes, the page mover tool we use can preserve the page's history. You can go to the Locked Pages thread to request them. Just be prepared to handle the indexing and wick cleanup yourself.

Macron's notes
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#504: Dec 10th 2022 at 8:46:04 PM

^ Noted, thanks.

What I'm planning to handle are two works that I edit relatively often which both have the overly long title issue. Can tropers confirm whether the following proposed moves are kosher?

  1. LightNovel.Endo And Kobayashi Live The Latest On Tsundere Villainess Lieselotte -> Literature.Endo And Kobayashi Live (This is one that I'm not so sure—the full title with punctuation is Endo and Kobayashi Live! The Latest on Tsundere Villainess Lieselotte, so it's not in a Short Title: Long, Elaborate Subtitle situation.)
  2. LightNovel.Modern Villainess Its Not Easy Building A Corporate Empire Before The Crash -> Literature.Modern Villainess (This is a Short Title: Long, Elaborate Subtitle situation; the localized title is Modern Villainess: It's Not Easy Building a Corporate Empire Before the Crash)

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
bwburke94 Friends forevermore from uǝʌɐǝɥ Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Friends forevermore
#505: Dec 11th 2022 at 8:11:17 AM

While we're discussing long subtitles: LightNovel.Bofuri I Dont Want To Get Hurt So Ill Max Out My Defense -> Literature.Bofuri?

(I'm unsure of how to handle the custom titles for Bofuri, but the wikiword itself is noncontroversial.)

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#506: Dec 11th 2022 at 9:02:56 AM

[up] There's no technical need to shorten that one, seeing it still registers inbounds. But if I need to choose, I'd choose "Bofuri," because I personally believe when in doubt, source media has priority.

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
bwburke94 Friends forevermore from uǝʌɐǝɥ Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Friends forevermore
#507: Dec 11th 2022 at 10:56:23 AM

For those unaware: all media use the subtitle, but the short title is written as Bofuri for the LN/manga and BOFURI for the anime.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#508: Dec 14th 2022 at 10:26:40 AM

I would side with the LN then: make it lowercase.

SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#509: Dec 15th 2022 at 6:32:48 PM

Since it's still finals week, I will only put in the requests mentioned [up][up][up][up][up] 24 hours later.

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#510: Dec 16th 2022 at 8:17:22 PM

[up] Retitling of Endo and Kobayashi has been filed. I decided to handle it first because its anime adaptation will air in the Winter 2023 season, and given the number of wicks it might need some time transferring those—and I don't want to confuse newbies to the page.

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
Excessive-Menace uwu from the Velvet Cage (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
uwu
#511: Dec 27th 2022 at 12:42:40 PM

The page title for The Genius Princes Guide To Raising A Nation Out Of Debt Hey How About Treason has 64 characters, which is just enough to touch the page title character limit, thus causing oddities like having no inbounds in the Related page. When I get to moving the page to the Literature namespace, I would change the title to remove the text in the parenthesis, so it would just be The Genius Princes Guide To Raising A Nation Out Of Debt. This title change will also apply to the YMMV and Characters subpages of the work.

THE GOLDEN AGE WILL RETURN AGAIN!
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
Malady (Not-So-Newbie)
#513: Dec 28th 2022 at 5:14:51 AM

I actually expected Reaper to be a more popular title.

LightNovel.Reaper is the subject of Characters and the namespace depreciation means it'll need to be disambig-ed with Literature.Reaper.

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
bwburke94 Friends forevermore from uǝʌɐǝɥ Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Friends forevermore
#514: Dec 28th 2022 at 12:52:20 PM

LightNovel.Reaper was mis-namespaced anyway, as it's OEL and was never translated into Japanese or Chinese.

We have to disambiguate by author here, as both it and Literature.Reaper were created in 2016.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#515: Jan 3rd 2023 at 12:11:51 AM

Modern Villainess: It's Not Easy Building a Corporate Empire Before the Crash has been retitled Modern Villainess. All wicks have been transferred and the Light Novel/ redirect cut (which is why you're seeing a Literature/ redirect now).

I'm thinking that we need some specialist attention on Love Chunibyo And Other Delusions, since it's one work where the novel and the anime are hugely different, which means the wick transfer needs someone who actually knows the novels to perform.

Edited by SamCurt on Jan 3rd 2023 at 12:12:07 PM

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
selkies Professional Wick Checker Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Professional Wick Checker
#517: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:14:05 AM

By the way, I just moved LightNovel.A Certain Magical Index to Literature.A Certain Magical Index, but how do I make the latter the main namespace?

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#518: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:23:04 AM

Main namespace exists only for tropes. You want to replace the old page with a [[redirect:Literature/A... tag.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
selkies Professional Wick Checker Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Professional Wick Checker
#519: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:39:37 AM

Yes, I know I just didn't word it properly. But I got my answer, thanks!

Edited by selkies on Jan 13th 2023 at 12:40:19 PM

Malady (Not-So-Newbie)
#521: Jan 20th 2023 at 11:05:52 AM

Huh, there's only 299 left. I wonder how many are as simple as Manuke FPS Player Ga Isekai E Ochita Baai.

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#523: Jan 25th 2023 at 9:04:42 AM

Yes, that's the correct namespace now. That Cut List reason was back when Light novels had their own namespace.

Macron's notes
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#524: Jan 25th 2023 at 9:16:31 AM

Ah, gotcha.

EDIT: For now, should I just make it a redirect, or vice versa?

Edited by ACW on Jan 25th 2023 at 1:27:45 PM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#525: Jan 25th 2023 at 1:23:33 PM

I've done Durarara; Kaze no Stigma; and Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation.

And by "done", I mean I've changed the namespaces on the indices, and made the Light Novel namespace a redirect to the Lit namespace (which I've created by copying all the stuff at the LN namespace).

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

12th Aug '22 7:29:32 PM

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