Misused: Foe Yay

The reason nobody just chainsawed the examples is because they were supposed to be sorted instead, but nobody ended up doing that, either. One way or another, though, they do need to get off the page.

Well, if converting it to a pure disambiguation page wins, I was thinking we should just give up on the subpages and torch them since it's been almost ten years since the trope was renamed and nobody bothered sorting the examples (plus people who don't know it's a disambiguation page make the problem worse, as previously mentioned), and most of the people who voted to rename the trope and sort the examples probably aren't even active on TRS anymore.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 28th 2022 at 10:16:06 AM

I think that if someone really cares about preserving the example list in case some of it could be moved to a real trope, we could just make a sandbox.

Early prediction, but I expect we're going to remove everything besides the signpost from Foe Yay and unwick it (that part would happen either way if it was cut), even if partially, then check in a few months how the wick count doing and consider again cutting if it didn't help.

There wouldn't be anything wrong with sandboxing them. My main concern was the fact that the previous TRS thread left a lot of unfinished business behind and a lot of the posters in that thread are no longer active on TRS, meaning they probably lost interest in finishing the sorting.

I suppose it wouldn't be the end of the world if we just left it as a vanilla disambig, I'm just nervous about coming back a few weeks after cleanup and seeing new examples appear. The only way to ever be truly sure people stop linking something is to make that thing a redlink, so I just feel like salting the earth will be the only way to actually solve the problem permanently.

Ah well, we'd have to do a ton of cleanup either way, so the only difference is if the page gets cutlisted or not. I made my vote, we'll see what happens.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 28th 2022 at 1:53:41 PM

yep, that's why my vote is for cut. A disambiguating I feel is going to take a lot longer to see misuse stop if it stops. And even then some people will still add it because it's a blue link. Whereas making it a red link at least gives people a visual queue that something has changed and maybe they need to look further before trying to add an example.

That way we won't have to play wack-a-mole for months or maybe years while people still misuse it, like we currently are with Expy and other long term project tropes.

We could cut it for now, to get it across that it's gone, then bring it back as a disambig once the cleanup's been cleared away for a while?

... Assuming of course that the misuse doesn't immediately return full force when the link blueshifts again.

If it was still possible to just make it a fake redlink, I'd gun for that instead tbh.

Adorkable has a comparable number of wicks, and since it was cleaned a year ago, it's gathered ~50 misplaced wicks. Which could stand to be less, but if the decision here is to keep Foe Yay as a disambig, its future isn't terrible. Generous use of "do not add this" notifiers should help.

Forcing a red link is tempting.

We could also disambig and then lock the page to prevent recreation of examples. I remember Badass Gay got locked because people tried to revert that trope. Would locking help?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 28th 2022 at 4:27:25 AM

Of course, this would all be moot if the admins ever get around to making a disambiguation tag... but I won't hold my breath.

We don't have any specific notifiers for this sort of thing either, but we've been discussing the possibility of adding one at the notifier thread in Wiki Talk.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 28th 2022 at 4:28:40 AM

Should we run the crowner for longer than the usual three days?

Maybe, it seems pretty split right now.

I don't see why that would be necessary if the crowner is still stable after three days. Foe Yay hasn't been a trope for years. The cleanup work just wasn't finished.

The crowner was just created today so let's see how it goes.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 28th 2022 at 4:49:39 AM

I agree. There'd be more of an argument for letting it run longer if we were dealing with a trope, but we're not; we're fixing a disambiguation page that wasn't made properly.

If anything, I can bump the ATT query daily until the 31st (which is the three-day mark).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 29th 2022 at 3:13:15 AM

Since cutting is on the table, let's consider cut reason, which can direct anyone who lands on the page to an existing article. Formatting works in cut reasons (though everything is centered), so a list of wiki links is not out of the question.

While formatting was being tested, I suggested essentially recreating the disambiguation via cut request:

Foe Yay can refer to different things:

• Belligerent Sexual Tension: Romantic partners aren't enemies per se, but they get into arguments that get physical...and then very physical.
• Foe Yay Shipping: Shipping between arch-enemies.
• Foe Romance Subtext: In-Universe romantic subtext between enemies.
• Dating Catwoman: Explicit romance between enemies.
• Villainous Crush: A one-sided romantic interest by a villain.
• War Ship: Shipping between people from hostile factions.
• Well, Excuse Me, Princess!: Two partners can't stand each other at first, but their mutual hatred starts to come off as downright cute...

Please fix any links you encounter to point to the correct article.

I knew the cutlist has full formatting (edit reasons as well), as a function it's been pretty underutilized. If someone checks the redlink, they'd know the exact details, what to do, and what the "trope" could be refering to.

You know, formatting the cut as a disambig is a pretty solid plan.

It is, yes.

I think the most difficult part of the clean up will be knowing which case the trope is, since it seems most examples are potholes.

I would just delete anything that doesn't have enough surrounding context to go to any of the existing tropes we have.

I agree.