Misused: Were Still Relevant Dammit

He basically broke each word in the title down into a specific definition. I just don't fully remember what each word meant.

In essence, it can be broken down into what Mew said here without changing too many details.

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It's probably not a great sign if we can't clearly remember what each word meant and it was meant to be a mnemonic.

I think it was something like:

• We're = the work's identity
• Still = the work being a Long Runner
• Relevant = the work referencing something in modern pop culture
• Dammit = the way the reference clashes with the identity

But there was overlap and it confused me so IDK. I don't know if it was really tight enough to prevent misuse and complaining.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I added a TRS notice to the page. I'll probably take a closer look at the thread tomorrow.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I've brought this up before—and this doesn't have to be the main focus of the thread—but maybe we could tweak the trope name since it's occasionally misused to mean "character in-universe wants attention". The examples that come to mind are someone potholing it to Gwenpool (a character who knows she is fictional) trying to gain popularity with her readership, or this example on Characters.Ducktales 2017:

• We're Still Relevant, Dammit!: In-universe, Starling is shown to resent how the younger generation doesn't care much about him, and that the events he shows up to only attract the same old crowd of nerdy thirty-somethings; when Dewey, a new face, asks for his autograph, he's overjoyed that "the kids still [love] me", and groans when he realizes it's for Launchpad, "the fainter". As such, he embraces Boorswan's darker, more cynical version of the character at first, not caring about anything other than getting himself back in the spotlight, and finally is warped so radically that he turns into Negaduck — the complete anathema of what Darkwing stands for.

Neither of which actually fit the audience reaction, but seem like they do because the name is misleading. I've suggested "We're Still Hip And With-It Dammit", or something similar, which I feel more conveys the desperate sense of trying to connect with a younger audience.

To clarify, I'm not saying we need an in-universe equivalent. Like you said, that already exists. I'm saying that the somewhat vague name leads people to misuse it as "in-universe", as a separate phenomenon from Totally Radical, etc.

Edited by MisterApes-a-lot on May 15th 2021 at 10:32:59 AM

The In-Universe example feels covered by Totally Radical and Speaking Like Totally Teen.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

If I recall, the break doan was that "we're" = the reference clashes with the established tone of the work, "still" = yeah, that's kinda self-explanatory; "relevant" = the thing being referenced is popular and somewhat recent; and "dammit" = the particular reference calls special attention to itself (i.e. it's not something the work normally does).

It's a start, but to be honest, I think this page is a bit like Anvilicious in nature, and is inherently negative in tone.

Another thing that could be useful would be if we could decide how long a Long Runner has to be to qualify for Were Still Relevant Dammit, since the current definition doesn't make that clear.

Long Runner is defined as at least ten years, so I think that's a good metric.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

So...No Recent Examples, Please!?

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Yes, but no. The Recent Examples rule means we have to have a waiting period before we can discuss something. This is more like a "No Recent Works" rule- meaning the works can't be brand new.

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Which is already enforced by the trope being restricted to Long Runner anyway.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I reckon that a rename is needed. It is not clear enough.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

Do you have any ideas for a more succinct name?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

No.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

I might have an idea. Something like:

Long-Runner Sudden Outdated Reference Syndrome

Of course, this is too long, but it's the main point we're trying to go for.

I don't think the title is the issue, except maybe if we want to chalk the complaint examples up to the tone of it.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Well... that title is indeed complainy.

What about Topical Struggle? Or is not descriptive enough?

The best character is always the one-shot disguise.

Sounds too much like Ripped from the Headlines.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I acknowledge I'm a little late to the party (as I always am), but I've tried to read through all the replies here. I apologize if I'm not really adding anything new, but I think the issue really comes down to three main factors: (1) lack of a concrete trope definition (or at least one that is applicable to a wide range of examples, (2) subjective feelings and interpretations about what feels "forced", or which works are timeless, and (3) people using it as an excuse to complain or add kneejerk reactions.

Part of it is because, as many have said, a lot of the series mentioned have somewhat of a timeless feel to them, like how Rugrats and Arthur were tried and true products of the '90s, or how Peanuts was one of the '50s to '70s. They clearly hold some sentimental nostalgic value. So naturally people will attach some nostalgia to those works and treat any modern references with disdain, as if it somehow "taints" the timelessness of the work. even if the reference is actually pretty well integrated.

I think a lot of people also want to add kneejerk reactions to what they see as out-of-place slang or references. As a personal example, one of my favorite current shows, Amphibia, mostly takes place in a frog world that culture and technology-wise isn't very advanced beyond the 1800s or even the Middle Ages. Nobody in the town knows what a phone is, let alone a smartphone. Yet characters frequently say modern slang like "K thanks byeeeee" or "Why do you have to be so aggro?". And I have to admit, it felt pretty odd to me for them to speak like that. But in the end it's not really an example, because the show also takes place in the modern world (the main protag being a teenager going to middle school in the late 2010's, who frequently uses her phone, so they may have picked up some words from her), but more importantly for these purposes, it's not a Long Runner.

It seems tropers are tempted to put examples down out of a similar reaction. And it gets so bad that even shows that have been shown to evolve with the times, like Arthur, have examples like, "THIS EPISODE SHOWS THE CHARACTERS UPLOADING A VIDEO TO YOUTUBE AND GOING VIRAL THEY'RE TRYING TOO HARD". Or frankly, even for non-Long-Runners or non-dated memes, tropers jump the gun and predict that said memes will become outdated in a few years (for instance, there's an example for Molly of Denali, a fairly recent show, that mentions the characters (mostly young kids anyway) doing things like Flossing. While the show is not a long runner, it's pretty clear that fads like flossing and dabbing will grow out of fashion if they haven't already). Ironically, Ducktales 2017 has actually been listed as averting this trope well, even though I feel it's probably an even bigger victim of what people describe as this trope than some of the examples I've personally seen (99% of that probably coming from the walking talking jab at millennial techies, Mark Beaks). Not saying those are examples of the trope, just that, going by what seems to be the common standard now, it's surprising that people give DT2017 a pass.

Honestly I feel the original criteria (the reference has to be dated even at the time of the work's release) is a little too narrow. Not only is it hard to judge when a reference has become dated, but shows just don't really do it that often. If it's clear a reference is dated, most producers would probably have no reason to include it anyway (much like how no show will unironically have a character say "YOLO", do the Harlem Shake, or play with a fidget spinner anymore - you'd have to be REALLY out of touch to think those fads are still relevant). And even if they do, it's not really noteworthy enough to elicit the same reaction as, say, a character in a show from the 00's dabbing.

Again, the huge subjectivity of the trope is one of the difficulties of fixing this one up. But I think the criteria ~mightymewtron brought up were a good start - the reference has to be especially jarring or receive a disproportionate amount of audience attention to count, and the example as to clearly show that.

Perhaps some sort of "egregiousness" factor would be a good idea. Again, it's rather subjective, but it may make tropers think twice before adding an example. Charlie Brown saying, "Is there an emoji for 'good grief'?" in a phone service commercial? Probably not an example. Charlie Brown and his friends saying, "Linus is holding a Twitch livestream, it's gonna be liiiiit!!", and "OMG, you have to DM me the deets!" on Instagram? Probably an (admittedly extreme) example. Like mightymewtron said, I also really don't like to unnecessarily weigh down YMMV items with criteria lists, so this should probably more of a consideration than a hard criterion.

Or I could be wrong about my thinking in all this. Some pretty good ideas have already been offered, but I thought I'd chime in with my two cents since I felt there were some issues that weren't being discussed here.

Edited by PacificGreen on Jun 10th 2021 at 9:09:02 AM

I don't think this is too hard of a trope concept to grasp. It's what happens when a venerable work or franchise attempts to include "modern" references or concepts in order to stay updated, only for it to become jarring since the work never had such elements in the first place, and it is out of place within the In-Universe setting.

By "venerable", we will understand that to mean a work which first debuted long enough ago that society had noticeable differences at the time. I myself was the person who added the Yabba Dabba Dinosaurs example in the OP. I have no opinion on that particular scene, but I was reflecting the general opinion of the fanbase around the net. But I think it's a good example. It's understandable that a Flintstones character dabbing would raise quite a few eyebrows, since it is a very modern concept and the franchise has its roots in the 60s. Hence the end result is awkward and a bit eye-rolling.

I don't think we could rename the trope without it being too long or cumbersome. Ultimately I don't think that's the issue with the trope.

Edited by WackyPancake on Jun 10th 2021 at 6:48:57 PM

"I like girls, but now, it's about justice."

I disagree, I think the aggressive name is part of the problem. I do at least think it ought to be changed to something that's not a line of dialogue - in its current state, I think people imagine it being said by a stuffy executive that's trying to ruin their beloved franchise. Maybe Long Runner Reference Woes (not short, but not really shorter than We're Still Relevant Dammit)?

I think Younger and Hipper more or less covers the tropable, non-complainy part of Were Still Relevant Dammit.

Not really. Per that page:

This can be a form of Were Still Relevant Dammit, but not necessarily. The franchise can still try to "keep up with the times" without aging down the cast

Admittedly, the primary reason that I'm against a name change is that any other alternative suggestions sound quite clunky. Though yours isn't too bad.

"I like girls, but now, it's about justice."

So...does anyone have any more ideas for this trope?

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

IMHO, speaking as someone who regularly uses this trope to describe bands that go downhill, I've always thought the definition of this is when a work of fiction tries to be hip and with the times, alienating fans that preferred when the work was timeless.

A good example would be The Psychedelic Furs. They started out as a genre defining classic post-punk/New Wave group of the 80's, only for them to chase pop music trends after letting stardom go to their heads after the Pretty In Pink film, creating absolute drivel like "Shock", which sounded like a later-day OMD track with electric guitars than a post-punk jam. In other words, they aped the hit singles of era instead of doing their own thing and it doing it well. But maybe I have the definition completely wrong, and in that case a new trope could fit what I'm talking about here...