Wick Check Project

Thinking about it, while this is a legit fanservice trope, I am thinking it might be too similar to Zettai Ryouiki in that, because of the nature of it, examples are either creepy violations of No Lewdness or ZCEs. Now, PS at least has more of a meaning than ZR, in that the former is something that the camera actually draws attention to, but should it just be definition-only like we did with ZR?

Eh, ZR wasn't so much a creepy-fanservice thing moreso than a horrible, no good, very bad ZCE magnet.

From what I have seen so far, Panty Shot has something of an impasse. If you go into detail to describe why it's an appropriate example, it gets creepy and weird. If you don't it's a ZCE-fest.

The trope can be used in two ways, one for Getting Crap Past the Radar and the creator just didn't think of using Censor Shadow / Magic Skirt, or the enire work (or a Running Gag about one character like Ms. Fanservice) is Ecchi and it's a genre standard. If either is cited it would solve the ZCE without sounding creepy.

As I'm (just under) halfway through the check, I'd like to hear some opinions on my placement of things so far.

Panty Shot Wick Check

I am keeping potholes that correctly reference Panty Shot as a fanservice trope for now, but am tempted to move them into the unclassifiable folder.

Which is the exact same problem that caused Zettai Ryouiki to become a Fan Speak page.

Edited by MasterN on Mar 16th 2022 at 12:36:14 PM

I thought it was also because it lacked any relevance to the characters and was just "character wears socks like this"? At least Panty Shot has a sense of gratuity and is more obviously intentional fanservice.

Yeah, it was definitely just sort of an incidental "a character wears socks" trope that people shoehorned into everything, and had meaning that didn't actually apply in most cases.

Is Adjusting Your Glasses even a trope? Almost all examples are just "X does this". I think it's just Character Tics, but I'm not sure what to look for besides "but in a cute/smart/creepy/cool way".

It's been brought multiple times before. The way the page is sorted still bothers me. But anyways, I think it's covered by the broader Character Tics subtropes we have.

I think it can be tropeworthy as a Character Tic when a character is explaining something, but I can see concern that it's too specific. But Character Tics is so broad that I don't mind subtropes.

I'll kickstart it here and return to it later.

So, I finished my Wick check of Panty Shot, but I'd like a review of it before I take further action (plus there are some examples I may move if anyone thinks they would be better in another place).

Panty Shot Wick Check

I have decided to do a quick wick check for We Are The Experts, which I have found on the Tropes Needing TRS. Can you add me to the TRS Queue?

We Are The Experts Wick Check

I think it might be a good idea to finish the wick check first.

Also I generally don't total percentages until I'm done wick checking, but that's just me and you can do whatever formatting you want.

That's the entire wick check, the trope only has 7 wicks total and those are all of the ones with examples (the other 4 are all sandbox or administrivia pages).

Speaking of, adding yourself to the TRS Queue is a free action (although you can't make a thread without some kind of evidence). You also didn't really have to make a wick check for this one (although a wick check is never a bad thing to do), seeing as the trope is within starving range (see Administrivia.Wick), as that by itself is enough of a problem to take it to the TRS.

Edited by Tonwen on Mar 18th 2022 at 9:27:54 AM

Oh OK. I didn't know that, I apologize. My fault for not checking.

Anyway yeah go ahead and add yourself to the TRS Queue Adept. It's a free action as was said.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 18th 2022 at 10:27:17 AM

It's okay, it happens.

Also, don't mean to toot this horn again so soon, but I did want to see if my wick check could be reviewed before I add percentages and put it into the queue.

Panty Shot Wick Check

It looks good to me.

Thanks, adding to the queue

Ey ~Eiryu, what were the six Villainous Aromantic Asexual examples you added context to? I want to check them against the examples in the wick check to see if I need to alter my OP.

• Characters.Harry Potter Lord Voldemort (Obviously a villain, despite the original entry not specifying as such, so I clarified the example to connect the pieces)
• Characters.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Battle Tendency: (A very inhuman villain with a distaste for humanity; his lack of interest in "human" things like sex and romance is associated with this)
• Blog.Ask Ben Solo (Still part of a fascist organization, if not specified in the original example)
• Characters.Old Kingdom (Actually an example I added myself a while back; clarified the connection to her villainy)
• Aromantic (a short-hand definition as part of a disambig, just added some clarification to the trope definition)

And, oops, that's only five; I misremembered because I was in the middle of something else when I was doing that mini-project this morning. I can update the note about it.

That said, Dark Mistress would get updated to match the first example and moved with, because it's a pothole to the same character. That Green sonic example is just straight up misuse. And Fanfic.Zistopia is probably actually accurate—a "self-serving asexual" sounds exactly right for this trope.

Depraved Bisexual and Chaste Hero are...honestly, probably fine? They're not examples, just compare lines, but if the disambig definition is getting thrown in, they should be categorized the same way.

I also am not sure what to make of the Pragmatic Pansexuality examples. I suspect a lot of these are not actually misuse of the trope, either. I think they overlap and a lot of the reasons describing one would also describe another. Pragmatic Pansexuality could have someone only interested in women sleeping with men for their goal, someone in a relationship sleeping with people for their goal, or Villainous Aromantic Asexual characters sleeping with people for their goal...I think it's just a trope with some overlap, and "Character sleeps with these people but doesn't care about them because they don't/can't care about anyone and this is framed as Evil" is a character to whom both tropes apply with largely the same contextual explaining. In fact, Pragmatic Pansexuality is mentioned in the description for VAA.

I don't recognize a lot of the examples on the wick check so I can't clarify them, but I suspect they fall into similar categories. I'll be honest: I'll be very upset to lose this one, because it's a very common trope for aro ace characters, and us aro and ace people have to do a surprising amount of work to prove that people...actually kind of hate us. And this trope and its examples are a list of some of that proof.

Edited by Eiryu on Mar 18th 2022 at 9:10:44 AM

Done with Adjusting Your Wick Check. Thoughts?

Sorry for the late response.

Hmm... thinking it over, I'm starting to consider that the solution isn't a salt-the-earth like with Romantic Asexual, but perhaps a rename? The trope might be seeing the classic "only read the title and not the description" misuse, so maybe it needs to be clarified that this actually ties into their villainy and isn't just a thing the character happens to be.

The trope going hand in hand with Pragmatic Pansexuality is an interesting note, too.

IDK, I think most tropes, if given a wick check, would end up with a lot of ZCE or partial-context examples...especially these kind of ones with a million other tropes and descriptions explaining that yes, they are the villain, so they assume whoever sees the example will of course, know that Voldemort is the villain. The only ones that wouldn't are likely small, newer tropes that get less attention so have less misuse accumulating after being vetted in the TLP, and ones with active cleanup threads.

It probably needs a Short-term cleanup, but I'm not sure if it needs TRS. What would we rename it to? Something that's a hideous mouthful verb phrase?

(As for the overlap, I mean, consider: A character who tries to protect people by murdering bad guys. A Well-Intentioned Extremist or Pay Evil unto Evil? It's both, really. We have a lot of tropes like that.)