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This is a thread to discuss those Administrivia pages in need of a little updating- you know the ones. The ones that still cite rules we've long since changed, or the ones that don't properly cite our current standards. Some of them are even scattered in Main/!

So, this is the place to take those pages and fix them up with the help of the community.

For a list of current projects, see Outdated Pages.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 21st 2020 at 8:29:04 AM

Jan 20th 2021 at 2:26:20 PM

On the Up For Grabs Rewrite, maybe bold this part?

Rogue launching is super rude, and it will get you suspended immediately.

For How To Create And Launch TLP Drafts:

  • "You Must Indicate Intent to Launch At Least 24 Hours Before Launching" could use some elaboration on how to indicate intent.
  • "you must use "cannot", or "cant"". I'd write this as: "instead of writing "can't", you must use "cannot", or "cant""
  • "because the software treats numerals as lower-case." Not quite... Writing out VideoGame/Halo2 creates Halo 2. Maybe this wasn't always the case.

Edited by Twiddler on Jan 20th 2021 at 2:26:45 AM

WarJay77 It takes a lot to make a stew... from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It takes a lot to make a stew...
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Jan 21st 2021 at 1:39:46 PM

[up][up]Actually, numerals are treated as lowercase if the only other characters are one or more capital letters. For example, Music.U2 has to be formatted as Music.{{U2}} or the link fails, as with Music.U2 (written without curly brackets).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 21st 2021 at 3:42:14 AM

"I'll be waiting on the road! It's a 10 million fine if you're late!" —Barry, Pokémon Diamond and Pearl
bwburke94 Ultimate ??? from Ultimate Academy for Gifted Juveniles Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Ultimate ???
Jan 21st 2021 at 1:40:54 PM

It used to be that numerals were always treated as lowercase, so VideoGame/Halo2 and the like wouldn't be treated as links without curly brackets.

NOT up to date on RWBY Volume 8, and will not be until early April 2021 unless this sig changes.
wingedcatgirl Watch that pink smoke swooce right in from The Murder-Free Hotel
Watch that pink smoke swooce right in
Jan 25th 2021 at 12:13:22 PM

*looks at Administrivia.Troper Wall*

jesus hell this page is a goddamned mess

Sylvi& | it/they/she | plural trans catgirl | Trouble Cube | avatar by Madame Butterfly Knife
Serac Surge Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Surge
Jan 25th 2021 at 12:21:35 PM

The self-demonstration can be removed. And it should be indexed on Administrivia. And the instances of "word !" instead of "word!" need to be fixed. And I don't think "troper" is a proper noun that needs to be capitalized. And we can probably get rid of the part about letting others know how adorable you are.

It was made by acuddle, a troper known to have issues with weird gushing and poor grammar in the past.

Edited by Serac on Jan 25th 2021 at 2:23:50 PM

WarJay77 It takes a lot to make a stew... from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It takes a lot to make a stew...
Jan 25th 2021 at 12:23:02 PM

That's such a ~2012-esque page that I thought, "there's no way this is a recent creation".

It was made in 2019.

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Jan 25th 2021 at 12:23:46 PM

[up][up][up]I tried to clean it up, but it's such a mess due to bad grammar and sinkholes that I gave up to defer to this thread. We probably need a sandbox.

Edit: I had to add two more arrows because I got ninja'd by two people in a row. Also, putting a space before exclamation points and question marks is proper grammar in French, and the page creator's page says they're French, but it isn't proper grammar in English.

Edit: Also, some of the quotation marks should probably be removed. Putting quotation marks around "Tropers" makes it look like it's being referred to as a Fan Community Nickname even though it's an official term for TV Tropes users rather than a fanmade nickname.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 25th 2021 at 2:31:24 PM

"I'll be waiting on the road! It's a 10 million fine if you're late!" —Barry, Pokémon Diamond and Pearl
WarJay77 It takes a lot to make a stew... from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It takes a lot to make a stew...
Jan 25th 2021 at 12:27:42 PM

This whole thing makes me wonder why Administrivia pages are free-launches. Seems weird. Seems like an oversight. I always try and get the mods' approval before I launch pages discussed here because it feels wrong to just create new Administrivia pages without at least getting an okay.

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
Serac Surge Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Surge
Jan 25th 2021 at 4:14:48 PM

I'm sandboxing a new version of the page, and I just noticed that it links to Troper Tales, seemingly using it as a good example of a "link between tropes and tropers".

Edit: First draft is available here.

Edited by Serac on Jan 25th 2021 at 6:21:09 AM

WarJay77 It takes a lot to make a stew... from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It takes a lot to make a stew...
Jan 25th 2021 at 7:02:22 PM

[up] We'll probably want to rearrange it. The fact that it starts with the history of Troper/ pages is a bit distracting from the actual point of the page.

Anyway, does Not a Deconstruction read a little confusingly to anyone else? My biggest issues are:

  • The part about how Deconstructions can be "lighter and softer" with no explanation about how that'd work
  • The example in the "Subverted" section, in which the supposed Deconstruction is more like Reality Ensues and still isn't being played straight.
  • I also find the Reconstruction section to be a bit too vague. It didn't help me understand the concept at all.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 25th 2021 at 10:04:25 AM

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
Jan 25th 2021 at 7:55:46 PM

I suppose it's assuming it could be lighter if darkness only occurs due to author fiat?

Sorta like how the Fallout series would have greener scenes IRL? Because rads disipate faster than it shows?

Edited by Malady on Jan 25th 2021 at 7:56:29 AM

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
WarJay77 It takes a lot to make a stew... from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It takes a lot to make a stew...
Jan 25th 2021 at 7:56:57 PM

I don't play Fallout so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
Jan 25th 2021 at 8:14:59 PM

[up] - My apologies.

Fallout depicts a radioactive wasteland existing after 200+ years post-nuclear war, when modern nuclear physics has a lush green earth after the sane backstory.

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
Jan 25th 2021 at 8:37:36 PM

I see, so the expectation based on fiction (that the world would be a wasteland) is darker than the reality (that plants would regrow). Hence, a realistic examination of the "far-future nuclear wasteland" trope would be comparatively Lighter and Softer.

Edited by Twiddler on Jan 25th 2021 at 8:41:29 AM

Jan 25th 2021 at 9:07:40 PM

[up] - Yes, exactly!


On the difference between Reality Ensues and Deconstruction...

Laconic.Deconstruction seems adequate:

The story explores a trope's realistic assumptions, flaws, consequences, and/or origins.

... The pothole feels wrong, because the verb in Reality Ensues is Ensues, a post-event word. Not sure what's going on in the TRS, but I'd vote to isolate Ensues to Consequences.

TRS: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1586665412072915200&page=9#comment-213

So, that was a considered and discarded option. Oh well.

....

And a Deconstruction of the assumptions instead of the consequences being something like:

A child doing Work Off the Debt gag implies they don't have parents to pay said debt, child labor laws haven't been established, etc, and a Deconstruction would be exploring the world that Justifies the trope's existence using IRL social science or whatever.


And I guess Reconstructions require a preceding Deconstruction, and work to undo the tone shift.

Redarkening or Relighting as needed.

Wasteland where grass is expected because, oh, global nuclear warming threw the climate out of wack instead of because rads.

And Work Off the Debt is a gag again because it's a small punishment for only a day used by society to teach the value of work and not to steal or something.

Edited by Malady on Jan 25th 2021 at 9:15:55 AM

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
Jan 25th 2021 at 9:22:04 PM

Reality Ensues can be done through methods other than deconstruction. It can be done through subversion, or through aversion of an expected trope. I wrote a post with some linked examples here.

WarJay77 It takes a lot to make a stew... from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It takes a lot to make a stew...
Jan 25th 2021 at 9:25:49 PM

So the example under the "subverted" tab would be Reality Ensues, right? Since the consequences mentioned are all realistic, but the trope is that someone gets knocked out, and the deconstruction notably has them not be knocked out. In fact I'm not even sure how Tap on the Head could be deconstructed since the idea is that the character is "harmlessly KO'd"— how do you play that any straighter and what consequences could come from a trope that outright claims to lack consequences?

Though this is starting to be a discussion more on what deconstructions are, rather than if the current page is inaccurate.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 25th 2021 at 12:27:55 PM

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
Jan 25th 2021 at 9:37:07 PM

[up] - Don't we need to know what they are before we can judge accuracy?

Or do you mean we should generalize instead of focusing if one example is right?

Anywho. TTYL.

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
WarJay77 It takes a lot to make a stew... from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It takes a lot to make a stew...
Jan 25th 2021 at 9:38:49 PM

I mean, idk. I've never fully understood Deconstructions in the first place and I don't want this thread to be so bogged down in trope discussion that we get completely derailed. We might want to take this to Trope Talk is all.

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Jan 28th 2021 at 4:53:59 AM

As written, the "subversion" of Tap on the Head on Not a Deconstruction is Not a Subversion, because it doesn't say anything about the trope (which requires the victim to be knocked unconcious) being set up.note  In fact, Administrivia.Not A Deconstruction doesn't even mention Administrivia.Not A Subversion, even though latter references the former, nor does the former even summarize what a Subverted Trope is.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 28th 2021 at 7:01:21 AM

"I'll be waiting on the road! It's a 10 million fine if you're late!" —Barry, Pokémon Diamond and Pearl
Piterpicher from Poland, for real Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
Feb 4th 2021 at 4:57:34 AM

Bringing this back because of an actual Administrivia/ page. Discarded TLP (and by extension, it's redirect Discarded YKTTW). I know the Discards tab used to link to the redirect next to every single discarded entry, but that has been removed. Is this page really worth keeping anymore? It doesn't seem to be linked in discussions or used often, and the information's meager which most people can probably figure out themselves anyway.

Edited by Piterpicher on Feb 4th 2021 at 1:59:56 PM

It's the final year of school (then I plan to take a gap year) and exams are looking on the horizon, so I may not be as active.
Piterpicher from Poland, for real Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
Feb 4th 2021 at 9:52:09 PM

~War Jay 77, I thought you'd be interested in this [up], thoughts please?

It's the final year of school (then I plan to take a gap year) and exams are looking on the horizon, so I may not be as active.
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas
Maintenance?
Feb 4th 2021 at 10:45:57 PM

Currently a TRS thread is pending for eight tropes from the Definition-Only Pages effort which are about internet users and are outside the scope of the site; one of these, Mistakenly Banned, is indexed on Administrivia. I note that there are some non-DO entries from the Fora, Online Personas, and Wiki Tropes indices with the same problem. Are any of these others on the Administrivia index?

NRLEP candidates * ColorTropesCleanup
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Feb 5th 2021 at 5:05:12 AM

[up]As I've said before, a lot of Wiki Tropes pages have the problem of only describing how they're used on TV Tropes, despite the category being called Wiki Tropes and not TV Tropes Tropes, meaning they might as well be Administrivia pages.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 5th 2021 at 7:06:50 AM

"I'll be waiting on the road! It's a 10 million fine if you're late!" —Barry, Pokémon Diamond and Pearl

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