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What about Angela?
Half-Demon Dude In A Bizarre World
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To everyone I missed.
Okay, here's the eighth Outnumbered candidate: Maisie.
Who is Maisie?
Maisie is a friend of Karen's.
What is her predicament?
During the third season Maisie is mentioned to have stayed over at the Brockmans' for the night, which went rather badly, as Pete — who hadn't been told she'd be staying over — happened to go to the toilet in the middle of the night. Maisie's parents are divorced, and she lives with her mother, so she's not used to "encountering a great, hulking, naked man" wandering around the house; this understandably upsets her, and she ends up having trouble sleeping for some nights afterwards. This possibly takes on a darker significance later in the episode when it's revealed that her dad is under a restraining order, and she and her mum have to contact the police immediately if they see him coming — although we aren't told what he did to earn it. That said, her mother's own parenting ability is possibly open for some debate: in the previous episode, Karen mentions that when she went to a sleepover at Maisie's house, they watched Friday the 13th.
Can she defend herself/is she a Jerkass?
Probably not in either case, although it's hard to answer that question, because...
Sympathy Standard?
...we only see her once on screen, and that's only technically — she's an unspecified member of a group of girls who Karen and Sue observe from a distance, which also makes it a bit harder to sympathise with her plight. (For the record, none of the girls in the group look particularly unhappy.) Besides, as I said, all we know for certain is that her dad isn't allowed to go near her or her mother — which is pretty small potatoes by the standards of this show; it's basically just a watered-down version of Alexa's situation from earlier. I included this one because she was listed before, but to be honest, I just don't think there's enough to go on.
Verdict?
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Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Btw ~Klavice. Before I get to my writeups on Lucy and Shizue in later future. Mind if I EP Adrian Andrews for Woobie litigation? She's essentially my personal favorite character of Ace Attorney along with possibly Will Powers
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Oh, by all means. I don't mind sharing Ace Attorney characters with people. Will try and Crowfeather's effort post up soon.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Cool... I'll see what I can do. From my research, she should be an easy keep.
Sir Night, Wayward Hunter-Angel
Ok, I got informed about this thread by Master Joseph, so I'm putting my original entry for Gebel from Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night here, with more detail.
- Jerkass Woobie: Gebel, who has had all of the pain Miriam did, being forcefully merged with a demonic crystal by the Alchemist's Guild as part of their Monster Extortion Racket. Unlike Miriam, who had Alfred and Johannes to try and stop the gradual absorption of her body by the Crystal, he had nobody to trust apart from her and nobody to stop the spread of The Corruption, and was forced to fight the spread of the crystal on his own for ten years, all alone and despised. Miriam really isn't surprised he went evil after all that pain, and even now his motive is primarily to use the castle as his personal refuge from humanity, explicitly offering sanctuary to Miriam. And subverted; it turns out that he's just a plain Woobie, his actions caused by the plague and crystal taking his rational thought and Gremory manipulating his fervid delusions so he doesn't know what he's actually doing, not even that Miriam is there to stop him. After she's exorcised, he barely regains enough of his mind to know where he is and apologize to Miriam before the crystal kills him.
Edited by Leliel on Jul 5th 2019 at 4:02:06 AM
What rises must fall, what falls may rise again.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Will you please do an effort post.
Silent Hill 2: While how sympathetic James is is a matter of debate amongst fans, there is no doubt about the plight of these two characters he meets in his journey through Silent Hill.
- Even in a game where depression is a central theme, Angela Orosco stands out as an exceptionally pitiful character. From a young age, her alcoholic father Thomas — and her brother, in the novelization — raped her repeatedly, and her mother only exacerbated the hopelessness of her plight by telling her she deserved it. She killed her father in self-defense before fleeing to Silent Hill, struggling with thoughts of suicide, and finds herself tormented by a monster she believes to be her father. The last time she meets James, she asks for him to return her knife and ascends a burning staircase to her demise when he refuses.
- Maria is a tulpa of Mary Shepherd-Sunderland who shares her memories, personality, and attachments, and unlike Pyramid Head, is an independent entity on at least some level. When she discovers the truth about her nature as a torture implement created by Silent Hill, she nearly shoots herself before accepting her destiny in the hopes of earning James' love. She meets up with him only to get separated from him later, and sobs when she finds him again. Throughout the game, she is killed repeatedly by Pyramid Head before facing off with James and attempting to kill him when he rejects her. Once she's at his mercy, all she can do is repeat his name over and over again. To drive the nail in further, it's implied that even though she got what she wanted from him, she is about to suffer the same fate as Mary.
Edited by Stellarvore on Jul 5th 2019 at 10:05:18 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Master Joseph Gebel... I recall, is an easy keep for Jerkass Woobie. And yeah, as far as I want to propose Dominique, she doesn't count due to CM status
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Sir Night, Wayward Hunter-Angel
@ MasterJoseph Will, when I have a computer and not a phone.
What rises must fall, what falls may rise again.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
I wouldn't mind snatch it if you want but not sure about this.
EDIT: OOPS. Wrong thread. Fuck.
Edited by Stellarvore on Jul 5th 2019 at 10:54:35 AM
Sir Night, Wayward Hunter-Angel
Okay, effortpost! If I need to replace the writeup for the trope with this, please tell me.
Who is Gebel?
The Disc-One Final Boss of Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, a Shardbinder created by the corrupt Alchemist's Guild as part of a Monster Protection Racket, saving the world from demons they summoned to stop the Industrial Revolution. Under the influence of Gremory, he became an Evil Sorcerer and conjured a demonic castle, provoking an invasion from its inhabitants. It's the goal of Miriam, the protagonist, to stop him.
What is his predicament?
Miriam is also a Shardbinder, and everything that qualified her as an Iron Woobie happened to him, only worse. See, Miriam got lucky in that she was saved and looked after by Johannes and Alfred, and counted Gebel as her friend. Gebel had nothing and no one, leaving him with magi-crystals that slowly consume his flesh and a human race that views him as a demon or a sign of the Guild's evil. Despite this, he remained good for nearly a decade, recognizing it wasn't humanity's fault (the crystals are Black Magic), but as the magi-crystal infection grew, he became vulnerable to being possessed by Gremory, and she dove into his mind to twist his emotions into bitterness over how he was treated, remaking him as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who views himself as a demon and becoming confused whenever Miriam shows a lack of bitterness. Worse, he was ultimately a pawn in this; Gremory's real target was Miriam, in a Batman Gambit to overcome her resistance to the crystals and leave her open for possession and as a cat's-paw to summon Bael into the world, succeeding in the Bad Ending after she kills him. It's not much better in the Good Ending where Miriam figures it out and forces Gremory out of his head, as she was controlling the crystal spread; he just lives long enough to die as himself before the crystal devours him, making him a lifeless statue.
Can she defend herself/is she a Jerkass?
On Defense: No. Maybe he could at one point, but by the time we meet him, he's little more than a finger puppet for Gremory and is utterly incapable of personal agency.
On Jerkass: He's technically the villain, but even when warped by Gremory his primary motive is sanctuary from humanity and he still regards Miriam as his peer and friend, wanting her to join him to get away from prosecution. Even if it was that his turn against humanity wasn't a farce, he'd still have some major sympathetic moments.
Sympathy Standard?
We spend the entire game with a Shardbinder, and we know exactly how much it sucks, with Miriam (to reiterate) having been established by this very thread as a Woobie. Gebel has it worse, because for him, it never, ever gets better. He's used as a disposable pawn by a demon and thrown away out of spite in the best ending possible. Gebel's life just sucks.
Verdict?
for representing him as a Jerkass Woobie on the YMMV page and showing he's a plain Woobie in the spoilers.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
To him, I think Miriam needs to be approved by this thread too.
Time for Crowfeather's effortpost.
Who is Crowfeather? And what is his situation?
Decided to merge these because they're equally relevant to what I have to talk about.
Anyway, Crowfeather, formerly Crowpaw, is a black tomcat with green eyes and one of four chosen cats in Warrior Cats to save the clans from certain doom threatening to destroy their home, hailing from WindClan and, at the time, a WindClan apprentice. He starts off as a MAJOR Commander Contrarian to Bramblestar (then Brambleclaw) and shows off a massive ego and arrogance streak. However, through the course of the journey, he begins to mellow out considerably. Especially to one particular pretty female cat named Feathertail from RiverClan, the daughter of Graystripe from ThunderClan and Silverstream who died at childbirth. She teaches him how to fish, and Everyone Can See It between those two. When Stormfur, her brother, gets captured by the Tribe of Rushing Water due to seemingly being the "silver cat" who will save the Tribe, Crowpaw pretty much goes "I think he should stay." and when Feathertail disagrees, Crowpaw grudgingly goes with Brambleclaw, Tawnypelt, Squirrelpaw and Feathertail to rescue Stormfur from the tribe. This backfires when they arrive in a cave with Tribe Outcasts who were banished from the Tribe for not driving out the mountain lion Sharptooth. Together, everyone forms a plan to save the Tribe, and when it fails, Feathertail gives her life to slay Sharptooth, and Crowpaw is beside himself, and an utterly broken wreck. When they return to their Clans, Crowpaw leads his Clan to the mountains where they take refuge. He chooses to take his own Warrior name of Crowfeather (after his beloved first mate) and when they arrive at their new home, Crowfeather meets Leafpool from ThunderClan, the medicine cat, who he is smitten with. The two hit it off and abandon their Clans to have a fresh start. However, after a one night stand, Leafpool finds out from the friendly badger they met on the journey Midnight, that her Clan is under attack by badgers. Naturally, Leafpool leaves Crowfeather, only to find her beloved mentor Cinderpelt has been slain by one of the badgers protecting the nursery. Naturally, Crowfeather feels incredibly guilty for this and vows to never fall in love again. A few months later, Leafpool gives birth to the protagonists of the third series, and Crowfeather has settled down with a new mate, Nightcloud and had a son of his own. Later on, we find Crowfeather has felt so much guilt and self loathing for everything he's done and is a Death Seeker that he wishes he could make everything right with him and Nightcloud being Amicable Exes. And in the new series, he loses his second mate Leafpool to a rockslide basically meaning, this cat is not allowed to have love at all.
Can he defend himself?
Oh absolutely, his tongue is incredibly barbed and it passed onto two of his sons, his ThunderClan son Jayfeather, and his WindClan son Breezepelt. And he's a pretty good fighter able to fight things bigger than he is as an apprentice, and as a warrior, he is one of WindClan's strongest fighters.
Is he a Jerkass?
Yep, unfortunately. He starts off as extremely jerky and later mellows out... only to ricochet back and be downright abusive to his son Breezepelt, Lionblaze said it best "He's (Breezepelt) waiting for his father to praise him." has Parental Favoritism without even knowing about his ThunderClan kits, and also chastises Breezepelt for essentially abandoning his Clan to side with the Dark Forest, when he was going to leave WindClan with Leafpool to start a new life. HOWEVER... the Super Edition Crowfeather's Trial makes him realize what a horrible father he's been and vows to change for the better in which he fights Breezepelt's naysayers who all think of him as a cowardly traitor, and he quickly becomes significantly nicer, even patching things up with his ThunderClan kin as well as his former spouses Nightcloud and Leafpool, and is able to finally be a good dad to Breezepelt to the point he happily accepts his grandkits from Lionblaze and Breezepelt and is even a Doting Grandfather to them.
Sympathy Standard?
Crowfeather is bare none, one of the more sympathetic antagonistic figures, in spite of firmly being a Face. So I'd say he easily passes, especially since he doesn't have racism, and despite his abuse, he does get better.
Verdict?
I'd say he's a keeper for Jerkass Woobie, despite his poor parenting skills, he does get over them, and becomes way more sympathetic.
Edited by Klavice on Jul 5th 2019 at 11:03:58 AM
to Gebel and Crowfeather.
Gebel
Crowfeather
I'm going to assume we're in general concord regarding Maisie (technically she only has three downvotes, but really, who are we kidding?) and move on to the final Outnumbered post. The candidates this time are a group: Taylor-Jean, Misty, Dune, Plymouth and Mustang.
Who are they?
Brick's five children, and Angela's stepchildren in Season 4.
What is their predicament?
Short version? Their father is Brick.
I've already pretty much covered their situation during Angela's EP, but let's recap. When we first meet Taylor-Jean in Season 3, she seems happy enough (and declares when asked that Angela is her mom), but it soon becomes clear that something isn't right. At Brick's prompting, she claims — a bit too eagerly — that she's so much happier now she doesn't have to make regular visits to Tucson to see her biological mother. During the dinner-table conversation, it's brought up that Karen recently hit a boy who was stealing her sausage rolls, and when she asks what she's supposed to do in this situation if hitting isn't allowed, Taylor-Jean replies "You get a court order stopping them coming within 50 miles." Exactly what this signifies isn't elaborated on... Later, during an aside chat between her and Ben, we get this:
- Ben: Have you ever eaten a tadpole for a bet?Taylor-Jean: Yes.Ben: Have you ever have you ever put fish food in your dad's tea?Taylor-Jean: Yeah.Ben: Have you ever taken a seagull into a hotel bedroom?Ben: ...Yeah.
In Season 4 it's revealed that Brick drove Taylor-Jean's mother into a clinical facility, and has been terrorizing his kids for years. When we see Misty, who was previously stated to have an eating disorder, she's clearly terrified, and blurts that he would regularly lock her in her room for hours. She wears an iPod, but admits she doesn't like music — she only wears it to shut out the world.
Can they defend themselves/are they Jerkasses?
No to both. What we see of them indicates that they're pretty nice kids; they're just messed up in horrible ways.
Sympathy Standard?
Overall, I'd say they've probably suffered more than anyone else on the show. What's worse, of course, is that, unlike Angela, the kids never get away from Brick; as far as we know, they're still under his heel now. Of course, there's the minor problem that we only see the effects on Taylor-Jean and Misty — one of the others, Dune, is stated to have an overeating problem, but we don't have any further details — although it's unlikely they've fared any better under their father than the two we see.
Verdict?
I'd say Taylor-Jean and Misty qualify for sure. Unfortunately, however, I'm not entirely sure if the others can — though I'm fine with including them if the thread deems it appropriate.
Not really. Like I said, we never actually see them; we don't really know how they've been affected.
^ Then I'd say for Dune, Plymouth, and Mustang.
Edited by EmeraldSky on Jul 8th 2019 at 11:36:25 AM
Fair enough.
