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Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread

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  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below are a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No, while this, like any other trope can be played with, we only want examples that explain it being Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Being by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavour of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen ó in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American airdate). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Edited by 43110 on Jul 21st 2019 at 9:45:52 AM

KingofNightmares No words.....
No words.....
Oct 8th 2019 at 11:44:58 AM

On The Bridge

  • Magnificent Bastard: Grand King Ghidorah. Why? He figured out Bagan's true identity on his own, tells him to his face he knows (and thus is the only one other than Harmony who knows Bagan isn't still locked up in his prison), that he has every intention of stabbing him in the back when he gets the chance, and attacking him (which does nothing)...and then exploits Bagan's Pragmatic Villainy by explaining exactly why he's too useful to kill, all the while without an ounce of fear or intimidation to a being he knows for a fact could easily kill him. What he doesn't tell the mad God is that he also went on a self-imposed challenge of creating a creature powerful enough to destroy Bagan, out of either necessity or selfishness, which is what he gets after his death in Equestria at the hands of the Godzilla Dynasty's Family Spiral Fire Ray.

I think this should be cut. While I haven't read the story, the Characters page mentions many things I think make him too detestable to count. He kidnaps children to attempt to drain their life force, tortures others personally, Loves the Sound of Screaming, mocks and taunts others, etc.

The present does not exist - It will just be the past once even a second passes
43110 36 styles of danger from the Brooklyn zoo Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Oct 9th 2019 at 12:51:47 AM

Came across a bunch of ZCEs on related works:

Nikita (Series):

  • Magnificent Bastard: Nikita, much of the time, especially when she's dealing with Division.
    • If there was any doubt as to Percy's qualification, it was no doubt removed as of episode 1x21, "Betrayals", and his status is solidified by 1x22, "Pandora". This man could give Lionel Luthor a run for his money.
    • Amanda as well.

La Femme Nikita:

  • Magnificent Bastard: Operations, whenever he's facing Walter or someone other than Nikita, gets to come off as much more awesome than he usually seems to her.
    • Madeline.
    • George.

For those who have seen these works, do any of these character count? Sounds like the setting would be conducive to one, but they'd need expansion/EP-ing.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Oct 9th 2019 at 12:52:08 PM

All I ever wanted was to pick apart the day. Put the pieces back together my way.
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere.
Emperor Enkoom Evulz II
Oct 9th 2019 at 1:34:57 AM

Honestly? I don't know. I've seen the series years ago and I don't remember much of it. I remember Nikita more being an awesome Action Girl than an actual chessmaster. I'd suggest to burn all the entries for now.

Here's my Code Lyoko/Naruto fanfic.
ANewMan A Very Handsome Fellow.
A Very Handsome Fellow.
Oct 9th 2019 at 2:24:46 PM

Hey, @43110, isn't the Diamond and Pearl Adventure Cyrus writeup overdue for the series' YMMV page and on the Pokemon MB page?

Edited by ANewMan on Oct 9th 2019 at 2:34:35 AM

AustinDR Smile and the whole world smiles. from Fresh and ready for life.
Smile and the whole world smiles.
Oct 9th 2019 at 2:31:06 PM

@43110: Go for it as in the FS character, or...?

[up] He was wanting you to condense it a little more.

Edited by AustinDR on Oct 9th 2019 at 2:31:30 AM

Why you little-!
ANewMan A Very Handsome Fellow.
A Very Handsome Fellow.
Oct 9th 2019 at 2:34:24 PM

[up] I've condensed it as much as I could now.

43110 36 styles of danger from the Brooklyn zoo Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
36 styles of danger
Oct 9th 2019 at 3:44:28 PM

I asked you to trim it a few times before I submitted the batch and at most it seems youíve snipped off a few words. If you canít do anymore I will but I tend to take the hedge trimmers to things I truncate and tend to get frustrated at refusal to be concise. This isnít the first time weíve had a bulky entry I donít think the length is warranted for.

@ Austin, That was at King referring to his suggestion to cut Ghidorah.

Edited by 43110 on Oct 9th 2019 at 6:45:40 AM

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
AustinDR Smile and the whole world smiles. from Fresh and ready for life.
Smile and the whole world smiles.
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
Oct 10th 2019 at 1:09:15 PM

Out of curiosity, given how important it is that the "Bastard" aspect doesn't override the "Magnificent" aspect, who, in your view, is the most evil MB?

Why so serious?
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
Oct 10th 2019 at 1:33:24 PM

Also, bringing up these unapproved examples:

YMMV.Silverwing.

YMMV.The Adventures Of Batman And Robin E 5 House And Garden

  • Magnificent Bitch: Ivy; she managed to fool Gordon, the doctors at Arkham, and almost Batman this time.

Edited by Clown-Face on Oct 10th 2019 at 1:33:36 AM

Why so serious?
43110 36 styles of danger from the Brooklyn zoo Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
36 styles of danger
Oct 10th 2019 at 2:10:18 PM

Certain bars you don't wanna cross, hence why we've got the no rape, racism, etc. rules in place. As for most evil? ... That's a tough one, I think Neil Cassidy is the absolute vilest we've approved still on the list.

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Oct 10th 2019 at 4:00:53 PM

For me the Most evil MB is Bondrewd. Dude might have been bad enough to Count as a CM in Beserk.

Also, in the spirit of Halloween I was planning to do a villain from a Creepypasta of all things. Hopefully it will be done before the end of the Month.

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
43110 36 styles of danger from the Brooklyn zoo Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
36 styles of danger
Oct 10th 2019 at 4:06:08 PM

Looking forward dude! Thread's been dead as of late and I mostly blame myself for neglecting it for other shit but hopefully we can all turn that around soon!

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
PolarPhantom Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Oct 10th 2019 at 4:11:34 PM

Most evil or heinous is probably a Warhammer person, likely a 40 K one.

For me though it might be Ardyn cause he's such a dick but damn is he good at what he does!

Darkness rises and Light to meet it.
G-Editor 300 episodes aired from Where do you think? Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
300 episodes aired
Oct 10th 2019 at 4:49:22 PM

The MB/CM crossovers are the ones that I consider the most evil, for obvious reasons. My pick would have to be Relius Clover from Blazblue due to the experiments he subjected on his wife and daughter.

Ironically the MB/CM crossover are probably my favorite of the MBs due to how hard they are to come by and how they manage to find a way to be both be utterly irredeemable yet manage to retain there brilliance and charm.

Edited by G-Editor on Oct 10th 2019 at 1:51:37 AM

300 more episodes to go.
43110 36 styles of danger from the Brooklyn zoo Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
36 styles of danger
Oct 10th 2019 at 4:59:37 PM

Depends, my issue with crossovers is that ultimately, I like an MB to have some aspect of emotional resonance with me and CMs, cool as they can be, almost certainly lack that. There are some exceptions but generally I prefer non-CM keepers.

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere.
Emperor Enkoom Evulz II
Oct 10th 2019 at 8:19:31 PM

The absolute vilest MB? Since CM/MB crossovers are obvious, for non-CM keepers, I've been thinking about Chayne Summers Prime and Olrik. These two can get nasty.

That being said, I'm planning to re-watch the Blake and Mortimer animated series to see if Animated!Olrik could make it as a CM/MB crossover.

Here's my Code Lyoko/Naruto fanfic.
HamburgerTime Yes, mancubi are people too. from Scenic Mars City Relationship Status: I know
Yes, mancubi are people too.
Oct 11th 2019 at 1:08:20 PM

I see that on Wednesday someone added one of my favorite nostalgic baddies, Gwen Grayson from Sky High (2005), to the film's YMMV page as an MB, with a full entry. Did that come through here? I couldn't find it on the last few pages.

Also, hi, veteran CM poster, first post in this thread.

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Oct 11th 2019 at 2:05:54 PM

[up] Apparently, ~Erik Modi added everything but the character's name(s), expanding it from a hidden Zero-Context Example.

Edited by Brainulator9 on Oct 11th 2019 at 5:06:08 AM

You don't mean no-nothing at all to me...
HamburgerTime Yes, mancubi are people too. from Scenic Mars City Relationship Status: I know
Yes, mancubi are people too.
Oct 11th 2019 at 3:19:29 PM

I'm not really sure she fits; she's certainly a capable schemer and inspires an almost inexplicable level of loyalty in her subordinates, buuuuuuuut she's also an Affectionate Parody of goofy Silver Age villains and is also a teenage girl. Does a character who throws a comedic hissy fit when hey boyfriend dumps her really meet the mark?

If the entry wasn't approved, would be more than happy to do a full EP; one of my fave cult movies.

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Oct 11th 2019 at 4:37:02 PM

Hey, regarding Gwen Greyson:

I HATE the gaps left when a Trope is made invisible, it offends my OCD. So when I see them, I do my best to add context if applicable or, if I'm completely positive the trope doesn't fit, just delete the line. So yeah, Wiki Walking brought me back around to Sky High (and I agree, it's a totally underrated gem of a movie!) so I expanded on the Magnificent Bastard example as best I could. Mostly recalling what Gwen actually did that might qualify her. If she doesn't fit, feel free to delete it. But I kinda feel that hatching a scheme that takes nearly two decades to reach fruition should make one a Magnificent Bastard pretty much by default, though that may just be me.

Oct 11th 2019 at 4:46:19 PM

[up] It's certainly a point in their favor, but there are other factors to consider. Being good at long-term planning doesn't necessarily make you a shoo-in for MB status.

Complete Monster quotes cleanup
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Oct 11th 2019 at 4:50:35 PM

I've seen Sky High myself, so I'd be willing to see someone EP her. It's worth a shot.

You don't mean no-nothing at all to me...
Oct 11th 2019 at 5:13:08 PM

At the risk of sounding like I really have no business being here. . . what's an EP?


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