During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Um... probably? What is the work? That sounds pretty bad.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Okay watching some of the ending scene, while he does throw the protagonist off a cliff, he then engages him in combat, and while he is angry I don't know if it's disqualifying level of anger. He's not yelling the protagonists name it's "I will rip you in half mongrel!" and then due to fight exhaustion has his punch caught.
Edited by jjjj2 on Apr 12th 2021 at 6:15:41 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Far Cry Instincts: Evolution
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Torrio.
I feel like if Lighty thought anyone else counted, he would have said so.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 12th 2021 at 6:14:09 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Woagh
@Vile: Does the candidate know they have powers like that?
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Is this Dr. Krieger? Isn't he also... just a major asshole too? Yes to Artie and Torrio, gotta stick with an abstain on Nameless though, unless there's more to talk about I can't quite lean either way.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No, its Semeru. Krieger isn't a fighter in Instincts.
Yeah. He does. He just considers the hero inferior and unworthy.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Apr 12th 2021 at 1:22:13 PM
Hmm... it could be Defiant to the End and I can't tell if that's Bond Villain Stupidity or he just thought the fall would kill the PC.
Okay that sounds a tad smug on his end.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 12th 2021 at 6:23:41 AM
Goku Black
Anymore votes on skaldak?
Gotta love Jaws!
Woagh
So, for anyone that's played Borderlands: Have we ever discussed Zer 0?
Normally, the Vault Hunters do the same tasks and feats, but Zer 0 has had the most supporting roles out of the BL 2 cast, generally doing his own thing. Combined with his more tricky playstyle, and i think he could be worth talking about.
Any second opinions?
Well, in 3, he manages to track down a buttload of killers and pays you to track them down (He can't do it himself beause he's now working for Rys). His scene in Tales does also show how he canotically fights as well, showing that he's not just "Guns lol",
establishing a pattern of sorts.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 12th 2021 at 4:03:44 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
The Moron
Can't talk about 3, but nothing about him is really unique in 2 in terms of his actions and plans, and his role in Tales is rather minimal - he just shows up, gets in a fight, and maybe appears at the end in a role identical to about six other people. I could be convinced cause it's been a hot minute since I've played the game and might be forgetting something, but his actions aren't much different from the rest of the PCs.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 12th 2021 at 6:57:03 AM
Any more votes for Artie?
Okay now its time for my first candidate in our Doctor Who collaboration. I'm happy to say we've managed to find a wonderful selection.
Now as I'm covering the shows classic series (note for future reference as these serials were always multiple parts sometimes up to six or seven episodes, some of the effort posts will inevitably be quite long so I apologise in advance), I thought I'd start with a really fun one, a personal favourite of mine, from season 16’s “The Androids of Tara”, I give you Count Grendel of Gracht.
What’s The Work:
In an episode that is a tribute to The Prisoner of Zenda, Tara is a planet that despite its advanced technology, operates under a version of the feudal system, with a strict divide between the nobility and the peasants, giving us a world were knights still ride horses into battle but carry electric rapiers.
Two hundred years before the events of the episode, the great plague ravaged Tara killing 90% of population. To make up for the labour shortage, the Tarans turned to building androids however, due to their feudal sensibilities such skills were deemed unfitting for the nobility, and left only to the peasants.
Following the death of the previous king, Prince Reynart is first in line for the throne and expected to become the ruler of Tara. However, there is one obstacle in his path, our candidate and he’s more than up to the challenge.
Who Is he:
A powerful Taran aristocrat, of a long and well established family line, Count Grendel will stop at nothing to become king of Tara and devises a succession of wicked schemes to accomplish this goal.
Sometime before the events of the episode, Count Grendel had the princess Strella, second-in-line to the throne (who’s exact relationship with Reynart is never established, although their not immediate family) kidnapped and imprisoned in his dungeon. He also organised three attempts on the prince’s life, fortunately none of which were successful.
Grendel wanted Strella to agree to marry him, so that after Reynart’s death she would become queen, and thus after a “tragic accident” he would become king, but she refused to go along with his scheme.
Thus Grendel devises a new scheme to make himself king, as Reynart needs to get to the imperial Taraian palace at an exact time for his coronation or he’ll forfeit his right to the throne, all Grendel needs to do is stop him arriving.
We’re introduced to Grendel with him rescuing Romana from a Taran beast after she accidentally walked onto his lands whilst searching for a section of the Key to Time. Seeing that she is a splitting image for the princess, he assumes she must be a malfunctioning android build in her image and charms her into letting him take her back to his castle, claiming she needs to officially register the piece and to let his surgeons look at her injured leg.
Once inside, he immediately traps her and summons Madam Lamia, his android engineer and occasional lover, to strip her for parts. Upon discovering she is not an android, Grendel see’s further opportunities and has Lamia drug Romana.
To act as a distraction from Grendel, Reynart had an android duplicate of himself made but it is not working. Fortunately the Doctor manages to fix it, however, Grendel had secretly had their wine drugged. Thus after a toast they were all knocked unconscious, arriving on the scene Grendel kidnaps Reynart and throws him into his dungeon.
The next day Grendel had everything prepared for the coronation, having his soldiers replace the palace guards, as well as several others guarding the plague tunnels that Reynart was planning to use to get into the palace for the coronation just to be on the safe side, as well as having more of his men planted amongst the crowds of peasants surrounding the building, with orders to start cheering his name when given the signal.
Thus when Reynart fails to arrive and as the law states the Archimandrite (an important figure, sort of like the Pope) is forced to pick another noble be crowed as King, it will appear the public is in support of Grendel. He admits to Kurster that he’ll turn down the crown upon the first offer to help win over the other nobles, but take it on the second as not to risk overplaying his hand.
He likewise reassures the worried Archimandrite that he’s sure the prince will be on time, whilst subtly guiding him to choose him as the replacement for when he doesn’t turn up, first acting modest then casually dropping into the conversation that his own men have replaced the palace guard.
However, his plan is foiled due to the Doctor instead having Reynart’s android impersonate him for the coronation (giving them time to rescue the real prince). Grendel is momentarily shocked, before realising what’s going on he immediately turns to his backup plan an android duplicate of Strella built by Lamia, programmed to murder the prince.
Thankfully when the android comes forward to pledge her allegiance to the new king, it suffers a minor circuitry fault (due to Lamia not having time to perfect it) that slips past everyone but the Doctor, who disables it before it can attack the duplicate prince and give the game away.
Though almost exposed, Grendel quickly manages to take control of the situation, convincing the Archimandrite to prepone the rest of the ceremony out of the danger there could be other android assassins amongst them, and tries to have his personal guard stay behind to guard the new king. But Zedek (Reynarts Sword Master and head of security) turns him down, which Grendel reluctantly accepts.
Returning to his castle, Grendel is furious but a momentary slip up by Romana causes him to realise she knows the Doctor. Devising a new plan, he has Lamia make an exact duplicate of Romana, then sends his servant to deliver a message to him that the Count has realised he’s been beaten and that he will return Romana unharmed in exchange for the guarantee of safe passage out of these lands.
The android being specifically designed to kill the Doctor with a laser beam the moment he greats her. Romana protests that the Doctor will know it’s a trap, but Grendel admits he expects he will, however, he won’t be able to take the chance not to turn up.
Sure enough the Doctor does arrive, Grendel sends Lamia in to meet him, whilst also having his men positioned outside. The plan only fails due to K9’s sensors detecting that it’s an android, and managing to destroy it before it can kill the Doctor.
Realising somethings wrong, Grendel orders his men to attack the pavilion, however, one of them accidentally shoots Lamia when she tries to escape. Enraged, but keeping his cool, Grendel holds the fire and tries to lure the Doctor out, promising on his word he won’t be harmed, whilst giving his men orders to fire the moment he steps outside.
He does manage to trick him, but it’s ruined by his men being incompetent shots, and Doctor instead escapes by having K9 cut a hole in the back. Worst still Romana manages to escape stealing his favourite horse, mistaking her for Stella Kruster orders them to stop firing.
Grendel realises his mistake, and instead has them chase afterwards but it’s already too late.
Composing himself Grendel rides up to Reynarts hunting lodge, where Zedak and Farrah are organising Reynart’s men, hoping to devise a rescue mission.
Under the flag of truce, Grendel walks straight into the lodge, making it clear he expects to be treated with the good faith that is agreed under Tara’s code of wars. Taking the Doctor aside for a chat, he congratulates him on his escape, and seemingly tries to recruit him, asking what he thinks will happen to him if the android malfunctions, even offering to make him King.
The Doctor doesn’t take the bait, and reveals it to the others who declare that’s treason, to which Grendel replies “only whilst he King is alive”, then using his flag of truce as spear hurls it into their android duplicate wrecking it beyond repair, Grendel then escapes out the back and to top it all off whilst they were distracted, he had Kurster recapture Romana.
This particular display leaves even Farrah (who utterly despises Grendel) admitting he’s impressed.
Back in his castle, Grendel goes to meet with Reynart and Romana and reveals his plan to make himself legally king of Tara. He’s kept Reynart alive, so that he can be married to what seems to be Stella, thus making her queen. Then Grendel will marry her, making himself king.
Originally he planned for Lamia’s android duplicate of Strella to marry Reynart, then him to marry the android, but as that is now impossible, Romana will take the role of the princess. And if either of them tries to go of script, he’ll have the real princess killed “slowly.”
He then summons the Archimandrite, claiming the King has put himself under his protection, but is very sick, using the androids suspicious behaviour from the coronation to reinforce the deception, and almost certainly dying. So before it’s too late, he wants to get married to the princess.
Warning his guards to be an absolute alert as nothing can be allowed to go wrong, and giving Kurster orders that if anything does to kill the princess. Grendel forces them to go through with the wedding, only to be interrupted by the Doctor.
Deciding he will end this once and for all, he challenges him to a duel. Upon the Doctor revealing he doesn’t have a sword, Grendel gives him his own, remarking he would hate to kill an unarmed opponent, and taking another sword attacks.
Whilst the duel is going on, Reynart manages to break free and following the Doctor’s instructions opens the castle doors, where outside Zedak and Farrah are waiting with his men, and storm the castle. Kurster tries to kill the princess as ordered, but he is taken care of by Romana.
The duel carrying on outside the walls, with several close calls. Nearly winning the Doctor points out how Reynarts men have taken the castle, and tells Grendel to surrender. Grendel declares a Gracht never surrenders, and that next time they meet he won’t be so lenient, before diving from the battlements into his own moat, swimming the shore and disappearing into the night.
Is he Intelligent? Charming? Magnificent?
Oh absolutely, Peter Jeffries plays Count Grendel with a devilish charm. Grendel is constantly polite and soft spoken, even with his enemies. Granted its pretty obvious when he's being insincere, but he maintains the same polite nature when talking to his own followers. Throughout the entire episode he rarely raises his voice and is the panicle of self-control.
As for intelligence, Grendel is a master at coming up with straight forward but ingenious plots, throughout the entire episode, every time one is foiled he almost immediately devises a new one or already has another one to fall back on. As he states “when I play the high stakes, I like to hold all the cards”. Every defeat he suffers throughout the entire episode amounts to little more than a momentary setback right up until the end.
And most of those defeats only came down to circumstances that he had no way of predicting. Likewise even when he’s absolutely sure of his victory due to having the real prince in his dungeon, he still goes to the trouble of having his men patrol the secret entrance and brings a backup plan to remove him, just in case.
He is likewise a pretty great manipulator, effortlessly playing the Archimandrite despite it being clear he suspects his ambitions, and coming close to fooling the Doctor himself several times.
As for magnificence, even Zedak admits that Grendel “never lacked nerve”. The man rode straight into his enemy’s base, wrecked their fake King beyond repair and managed to escape, all in response to his first major loss.
If Grendel makes one mistake, it’s leaving Zadek and Farrah alive when he had them at his mercy. But even that is mostly out of the fact they weren’t much of a threat to him now he had prince.
Now it should be noted Gendel is classist, even at one point threatening to have Lamia flogged for questioning his orders (not in a sadistic or cruel way just a clear sentiment he won't tolerate her defying his plans, he's otherwise pretty happy to hear her input), and does remark about Peasants no knowing their place anymore. However, his sentiments don’t appear any worse than any other Taran noblemen, with even the more heroic one's the Doctor helps expressing their own classist views. That's just how the culture is in this world, fitting with its medieval style.
He’s likewise not abusive towards his staff, save one moment of being angry at getting served a horrible tasting wine, all of whom are incredibly loyal to him.
Despite it being clear he’s playing Lamia’s feelings for him, he’s visibly furious when she is shot, and even offers a fortune in gold to the soldier who manages to kill the Doctor for causing it.
Is he A Bastard? To Much?
Oh absolutely. Grendel is a ruthless schemer, who makes it clear that he is happy to kill multiple people, and his only really care about becoming king whatever it takes.
However, Grendel never crosses any particularly serious lines. Whilst happy to break his word if he sees it as necessary, the man does have some sense of honour, such as him rescuing Romana from the Taran beast at the start or giving the Doctor a proper duel, rather than just killing him whilst unarmed.
What’s His Competition?
In the episode, it’s clear that if the Doctor hadn’t arrived when he did, Grendel would have won before the serial was even half way through.
In the scheme of the show as a whole, Grendel is a relatively small fish. His entire plan being quite well contained.
However, compared to the multiple petty megalomaniacs the Doctor has faced upon his travels, few quite had the sheer skill, grace and charm of Count Grendel. It says a lot that despite losing, he still manages to escape at the end. His creator openly admitted in an interview that it would have been a waste to kill him off, despite him never appearing again.
Conclusion?
A small player perhaps in this show, but never less an utterly brilliant one. I think Count Grendel is an easy keeper.
Still what do you think?
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 12th 2021 at 4:06:55 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
grendel
Yea for Grendel, again, great work thus far guys! Keep 'em coming!
Goku Black
Also I made a folder to keep track of everyone goin up in th drafts.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Artie, Torrio, and Grendel.
VN don't have as much because simply put, aside from Ace Attorney, the Nasuverse and Danganronpa, they're a pretty niche genre in the west. Not only that but Callisto Yew/Nameless Cohdophian Spy is pretty contentious around some people, so she might get axed anyway, provided Fried plays Investigations 1 first. If she goes, we'd be down to six. And even if she doesn't go, until we get a bunch of people to look through Danganronpa, we'll need to keep the AA examples on the page and not make an Ace Attorney page. Not everything with 7 examples needs a page, especially when the VN page is as tiny as it is.
Glad to see Hall got approved. My main worry with her was that she wasn't enough of a bitch, but Attempted murder is pretty nasty especially when you endanger innocents.
I'm actually leaning on Yew being too bad. She's a bonafide jerkass who laughs at having killed an 11 year old's father. Unlike Keyes though, she has no sympathetic backstory to speak of and leans more towards a Hate Sink. And not in the Love to Hate way either.
She also laughs about beating up the Detective for the case, who is an uncle to said 11 year old, has some squicky subtext with 13 year old Franziska, and works for the Big Bad, an approved CM.
Here's the line for context!
Franziska: If you continue, you'll see me whip you into shape!
Yew: Heh heh heh. Sounds kinda fun actually.
Whether she seriously meant that, or was contemptuous is left to the imagination but I don't like she was okay with being whipped by a 13 year old.
Edited by Klavice on Apr 12th 2021 at 4:47:54 AM
Yea there.
And Sky is correct: I don't believe anyone else counts in Boardwalk, for a large variety of reasons.
Goku Black
Alright guys. I have a test due on Thursday. So I'm going off the threads to focus on it. I shall,return on Friday with my next ep.
Keep up the good work.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Good luck and see you later man!
Good luck Mir! Grendel.
I got a question, does Big Bad deciding to throw the hero off the cliff (something the hero with his superpowers could find a way to get out of) instead of actually killing him, when he could do so easily, is considered mitigating stupidity? And when despite tricking him and weakening the hero, but still losing the fight and dying screaming hero's name in anger also considered mitigating?