Condemned by History cleanup thread

If anything, I feel like I've seen a ton of "Who's laughing now?" sort of reactions from defenders of Dark Empire lately, and a lot of criticism of the backlash against it.

(Hell, I'm one of them.)

Edit: Got a PM to clarify this, so to be clear, what I've seen is a lot of fans of Dark Empire having a "who's laughing now" reaction to the criticism against it, especially for being "un-Star Wars", in the wake of the sequel trilogy having obvious parallels. Meanwhile, there's also been criticism of that backlash as relating to a mindset that demands Star Wars be very serious and ignoring its film serial roots. So it's absolutely not Condemned by History, although I don't know if this mindset is pervasive enough to call it Vindicated By History.

Edited by nrjxll on Apr 19th 2021 at 8:48:12 AM

Would Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 count? It was well-recieved upon release and widely hailed as a return to form for the series, but quickly soured in reputation among critics and fans alike to the extent where the second episode was a critical and commercial flop, and is now widely considered one of the weakest games in the series, with many unfavorably comparing it to Sonic Mania.

So, should Youtubers like Fred be brought back to the page, now that the "man on the street" rule no longer applies and DTD has been renamed?

What is DTD?

DTD stands for Deader Than Disco, which was Condemned By Historys former name.

I wouldn't put Fred back, not because of the new rules but because even back at his peak he was a Base-Breaking Character at best. Sure, kids loved him, but adults hated him.

Perhaps. I do wonder how do the kids, who are now in their teens and adults, look at it now?

I mean, I never liked Fred all that much, and I was a kid when he was popular, if that means anything.

I mean, I don't think anyone really likes Fred now including Lucas himself. But that's not the point. CBH still seems to require that the work or genre was unanimously liked by those who knew about it. It didn't have to be liked by everyone ever, and obviously the "man on the street test" is gone, but I don't think someone who was controversial even when they were popular could count as CBH.

Well, one of the things that was changed was that entries went from having to be universally popular to mostly popular within their niche (at least as far as I remember), so whatever that means for Fred is applicable.

I guess if that means his army of child fans counts as his "niche", then maybe he does count...it just seems odd to have someone who was a Base Breaker for YouTube count as this trope. But maybe I'm looking at it too narrowly.

I think I phrased that poorly.

When I said "niche", it did not mean those who were fans. If that were the case, potentially anything could qualify for this trope.

"Niche" to me means medium/community. Fred IMO does not count because his "niche" in this case is YouTube, and if he wasn't mostly popular on YouTube he does not count.

...Evidently I think I should have said that during the TRS, not after. Damn, I am bad at wording things.

Well, YouTube is hard because there's not one single YouTube "community". There's multiple subcultures and multiple audiences on the platform. So I'd narrow Fred's niche down from "The whole website" to "his genre and target audience", because that's what a niche is. As Google defines it:

Let's keep in mind that while Fred did have a lot of detractors back in the day, he was the first You Tuber to get over 1 million subscribers, which, to me, implies that the number of fans he had still outnumbered his detractors. Plus, the page has an entry for Johnny Test, a show that, TBH, was never really that popular to begin with and always had a lot of detractors when it was on.

Edited by toonyloon on May 5th 2021 at 12:10:19 PM

Should we have an example for Johnny test. That show has always been panned ?

If it has always been hated, not at all.

Consensus is that it had a decent first season but was hated intensely from its second season onwards. If anything, it's less hated in retrospect.

What about Jewel? She had a niche following prior to changing her sound, which was covered by Todd in the Shadows' Trainwreckords.

I wouldn't say Jewel counts as being Condemned by History. I also question on the inclusion of Paula Abdul on the Music page for the YMMV trope.

Agreed on both fronts. Jewel and Paula Abdul didn't become hated, they just lost popularity. And I still hear both on satellite radio so there's definitely some fans at least.

Would the concept of Oscar Bait qualify as Condemned by history?

It used to pay off most of the time, and it pulled in an audience, but it began to fall out of favor in the 2010's it also didn't help that The Weinstein Company - the studio behind many controversial victories, became OBC'ed in 2017, and that the concept of Oscar Bait flew in the face of diversity and representation, which became a hot topic about the same time.

Edited by magnumtropus on May 12th 2021 at 12:48:46 PM

Was Oscar Bait ever really well-liked though? To my knowledge it's been quite contentious for a while.

It's been like three pages since it got brought up, but that Paula Abdul entry seems a bit questionable to me. Her music isn't really thought of as a punchline (jokes made at her expense usually trend towards her American Idol judging) and "Straight Up" at least still gets pretty heavy rotation in 80s radio play. Her music is not so much Condemned by History as Mostly Forgotten by History (which, if that qualifies, so does almost every popular musician from 89-91). If anything, the potshot at Milli Vanilli in the example should be the example itself- they're the butt of jokes to this day.

Edit: and now I see it was just being discussed and feel very dumb lol

Edited by DefiantKitsune on May 13th 2021 at 9:12:02 AM

• Having been introduced in 1980 with the Game And Watch line, LCD games quickly became the standard method of portable gaming when such a thing was technologically impossible, with several manufacturers like Tiger Electronics starting their own line of handhelds which became popular with gamers by the end of the decade. However when more advanced systems like the Game Boy began making rounds in 1991, gamers began flocking away from LCD games due to their primitive graphics and gameplay, which weren't helped by their fragile plastic shells when compared to the Game Boy's more durable design. Tiger's best attempts to keep them afloat during the 90s by marketing them as cheap alternatives to real handhelds (most notably with the R Zone in 1995) would only damage their appeal in the long run, since this only lead consumers to associate these titles with knockoff gaming by the turn of the century. LCD games have since garnered a reputation for being a cheap and outdated format of portable gaming (which was further cemented in the 2010s thanks to the rise of mobile gaming), and what nice things you can find about them are usually reserved for the Game and Watch series.^note Not just for the grandfather clause, but also because the line had a mix between original titles made within the system's limitations, and licensed properties with gameplay simplistic enough to be easily replicated with the LCD format.

This seems a clear case of Technology Marches On, which Disco said didn't count. I can't find that rule under Condemned by History. Was it intentionally removed or what?

That means it isn't Condemned by History. Cut.