All-Purpose Policy and Meta discussion: Administrivia.Trope Repair Shop

I think the problem is a lot of "not thriving" tropes would work with TLP help...and then nobody in the thread cares to make the TLP, or they do but it gets buried very quickly.

(I'm planning to make a TLP to help the TRS for Neurosis Commercialis, FYI.)

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

WJ: I admit I forgot about the Salvage Yard. Fair point.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on May 1st 2021 at 9:30:53 AM

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300

Even though I frequent both TRS and TLP, I'm never confident enough to make a TRS-based TLP thread, mostly because my TLP drafts have to come from some creative inspiration or I have to like the idea enough to adopt it. I'm rarely that interested about TRS-cut tropes, and without interest, I can't possibly stay motivated or write a proper description.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Usually if there's enough interest in TRS to sponsor a thread, there's enough interest to keep the page around instead of sending back to TLP and relaunching. Usually.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Well, usually sending it back to TLP is just to fix the issues without having to keep the thread open, or to get new examples directly from the community. The key is finding people willing to do the leg work. In the past, things got sent back to TLP all the time, until I pointed out that half of those drafts got abandoned and never updated.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Those didn't have a sponsor; they were just cut and sent back to TLP. That's the difference I'm referring to.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Well, yes and no; I consider the sponsor to be whoever makes the draft, but their instant abandonment means that said sponsors stopped being sponsors afterwards. So we're both right, and this is mostly just semantics anyway.

Edited by WarJay77 on May 1st 2021 at 9:46:47 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I've thought for a while that the Trope Idea Salvage Yard should be moved to Administrivia like Tropes Needing TRS, since one reason why it's used is to cut back on (or better yet, eliminate) the aforementioned abandoned TLP drafts that came from TRS threads. These days, I'm only in favor of sending something back to TLP if someone who posted in the thread is willing to sponsor it, otherwise I default to Yarding.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 1st 2021 at 9:53:02 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

We've been saying that for months now, but nobody's gotten around to actually moving it.

Also, this thread exists now, because we did realize that the Salvage yard is becoming more like a junk yard, and we want to maintain it (even if just by making sure none of the concepts have since been adopted or launched).

Edited by WarJay77 on May 1st 2021 at 10:53:08 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Just so I may share my piece on the matter (since I was sleeping). I generally say "I vote cut" because I do legitimately see the trope as unsalvagable in most cases. I did resurrect Sandbox Mode with 24 wicks, I did say that If You Like X Files had a misleading name because of the last paragraph of its description, I would occassionally say to merge it with the supertrope if there was one. If I say "I vote cut" and nothing else, that means it's not able to perform not likely because of the name, but it just can't (Talking Typography is Clear, Concise, Witty and seems to have an okay concept, but it just can't perform well, too bad).

And just to be clear, yes I would tell them that, I would even offer euthanasia, depending on how life-threatening/painful the disease is, how much the person still intends to live, and potentially if it's clear how useful they are to society. But I at least use an objective numerical standard to judge tropes, and these need to be enforced to ensure better worksmanship from others in the future who know that the standard shall not be taken lightly and quality needed for the produced things to be deemed acceptable. Additionally, I do so by using old and abandoned tropes, so the creator doesn't care as much as they used to (if at all), the people who used the trope are few and far between, and the rest of the people see they need to follow the standard if they want to avoid the same fate or accept it. I'd be willing to give my own tropes here if it's clear they can't do well (and some indeed don't, but they're still not old enough).

And in case of Trope Repair Shop no longer living up to its name, nothing wrong with that. the whole site no longer lives up to its name since it's not about just television. Don't be too constricted to the idea of a name. If Trope Repair Shop needs to become Trope Repair/Elimination Shop because of evolving scope, that's just how things can change.

Otherwise, agreed with WJ's post. Feel free to move the Salvage Yard to Administrivia/.

Edited by Piterpicher on May 2nd 2021 at 11:22:24 AM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

I feel like treating a human life as equivalent to a trope that's only linked on less than a dozen pages is a major false equivalence anyway.

I mostly have issues with people being cut-happy when it comes to TRS-ing major tropes, usually those that are hated on the basis of complaining, even when a fandom's negative reaction or factors surrounding it can be described legitimately without getting personal. But most of the time, I see these tropes get redefined, not cut altogether, so it's fine by me (though whether the redefinition works varies in my view). I see more disdain towards certain tropes in cleanup threads than TRS.

Maybe it's just that a lot of "not thriving" threads are opening (cuz it's easier to make threads for those than any other trope) and most of those are so outdated and low effort that they can be easily cut, so it looks like we'd rather just cut a lot of tropes at once?

Edited by mightymewtron on May 2nd 2021 at 3:15:27 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Part of why I brought it up this time is because a mod is part of this conversation, and the decision to move Tropes Needing TRS to Administrivia came out of a mod discussion on its discussion page. I don't recall any mods being present the previous times I've discussed moving the Salvage Yard to Administrivia, and I didn't see any mods at all in the thread you linked to.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 2nd 2021 at 6:41:34 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Unrelated, but I've noticed a lot of threads lately having people showing up late to the discussion and either suggestion solutions that are antithetical to everything discussed and voted on prior, or express that they feel we should do the opposite of what was voted on, and generally just make it clear they haven't read any of the thread when they're posting.

How should this sort of thing be handled? I'm not trying to face it with annoyance and snark, but sometimes it's very, extremely obvious that the poster doesn't have any clue what's been discussed, and often when I point out to them that they're a bit too late, they just vanish into the void. If I actually engage them, I'm worried I'd derail the conversation or waste my time debating on something that's already been decided anyway. Granted, there are times like the Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy thread where multiple tropers came to voice their dislike of the new title and we ended up with a change, but most of the time that sort of change isn't an option anymore.

So I'm torn between coming off like a Jerkass or derailing the thread by actually discussing their idea at length, and either option I feel like is a bad idea, but I can't help but get aggravated every time someone pops in, mid cleanup, and suggests we do the thing that everyone else downvoted on the crowner over a month ago, or generally says something that makes it obvious they've come in blind and don't know what was already discussed or what's happening. It's frustrating, but there's no way we can force people to read the entire thread before they join in, and as much as we try to attract attention for these things, we can't stop people from getting the memo several weeks late.

So...Yeah. What do?

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I suspect many arrive to TRS after noticing a cleanup edit deleted/moved something on a page they were following. Many tropers don't use forums, and only a handful of users frequent TRS. I suppose what we say to late commenters on a thread depends on how valid their objection is. If it's been discussed already, say it was discussed. I don't care to answer anyone who objects with flimsy reasoning ("I liked it before"). Ignoring > engaging. Like, don't even respond.

Edited by Tabs on May 2nd 2021 at 2:42:58 AM

I often arrive late to threads when I'm bored and there's no activity elsewhere on the wiki that interests me. I don't always backread but usually I only participate in threads when I at least understand the issues with the trope, like if I saw its cleanup thread. And I'm not gonna hop into a starred thread insisting people revamp everything.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Yeah, to be clear I'm not jumping on every person who's been late to the party. It's just super frustrating to have to keep reiterating that, no, the crowner has already been decided and we're already doing cleanup, and it's too late to suggest a title change when all we need to do is clean wicks. I feel like it should be basic etiquette to at least get a feel for what's happening when you jump into a thread, especially TRS threads. There's been times when people jump in and argue points that have already been discussed and debunked just a page or two ago, gloss over any previously presented evidence (like wick checks), and generally derail and obstruct the effort from progressing.

Edited by WarJay77 on May 2nd 2021 at 7:08:12 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

You know, for some reason it seems like this pattern of behaviour is happening more recently lately.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Which is why I felt the need to say something. It happened twice on Screw This, I'm Outta Here.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Could it be related to Trope Report adding visibility to TRS threads, but posting a couple weeks after the original writeup was done, so the condo has likely progressed? (Assuming people read it that is.)

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I didn't think Trope report would pull in much traffic to TRS from outsiders but maybe I am wrong.

A lot of people don't care about TRS decisions (or forum matters in general) until a trope they like is changed in some way. It's a little annoying and it would be great if people jumped in sooner and read the thread but I don't think it's a big deal. We can either tell them that the decision has already been or just ignore it. Hopefully, some of them will learn from it and maaybe get more involved with wiki matters forum-side. That might be too optimistic but who knows haha.

Edited by MacronNotes on May 3rd 2021 at 5:59:39 AM

Macron's notes

Soo... How about that Wedding Enhanced Fertility, am I right?

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Edited by Malady on May 3rd 2021 at 10:32:35 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

Hey, what if we just started pinning the first post of threads, which usually contain the wick checks and similar information? That way, people who come late will still see the sticky and will see the wick check, rather than them going to the first page every time.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Sure, that sounds handy.

I'm fine with pinning first posts.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I am not particularly convinced that this would resolve the thread hopping problem, especially considering that, well, someone who has never read a thread will see its OP first.

I think perhaps pinning opening posts of final action threads might be a good idea, if someone (the first poster or a moderator) has added a "things to do" list to it. One thing I've noticed is that sometimes threads are starred and it's unclear what has to be done.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman