The Scrappy Cleanup

This was recently added to Jeopardy!:

• The Scrappy: Mayim Bialik, a Season 37 guest host and one of the two rotating current hosts. Depending on who is asked when she started out, she was either a pleasant host who brings some fun to the table or she's an annoyance who giggles too much and was only brought in for Stunt Casting. After Mike Richards was ousted, Ken Jennings and Bialik split hosting duties. Viewers then noticed a jarring difference between both hosting styles with each rotation. Bialik makes unnecessary pauses before ruling on a response, and she usually doesn't show emotion to anything exciting such as a huge Daily Double or Final Jeopardy! wager. Her robotic demeanor hasn't changed, usually opening the show with a quick recap of the previous game's events and using the same catchphrases such as "Unfortunately, that's not correct." during Final. While fans generally agree that Jennings has settled into the role, Bialik's inability to improve makes has made her stick out like a sore thumb. Not helping is that she has admitted to not watching Jeopardy! before taking the hosting gig, to say nothing of her outside views.

Do game show hosts qualify for this, or does it fall under the NRLEP rule?

Sorry if this isn't a problem. I think I've brought up this page for scrappy related problems before when they had rotating guest hosts, so sorry if this seems obsessive...

I watch Jeopardy regularly and haven't had huge issues with her (haven't even noticed the issues the example brought up, actually), but either way cut since yes that's definitely too close to real life as the hosts aren't characters.

They both seem contentious, but I think there's a difference in reception between mainstream viewers and hardcore Jeopardy watchers.

I'd like to question Albert Ingalls the Scrappy in the "Little House on the Prairie" TV Series YMMV page. It claims he's a Scrappy for being the first example of a fictional Cousin Oliver. While Albert has his fair share of detractors, he seems to have an equally sizable fanbase, so I think he comes across as more of a Base-Breaking-Character.

I question these entries on the page for Kingdom Hearts II

• DiZ, for his horrifically cruel treatment towards Roxas and Naminé and being the instigator of the Prolonged Prologue and most of its Mind Screw. The voice of Christopher Lee in the US version is a mitigating factor, but even that can only go so far. As Ansem the Wise, on the other hand, he is Rescued from the Scrappy Heap through his atonement.
• Chicken Little, for not only being one of, if not the most lackluster Summons in the game, but for also coming from one of Disney's worst movies and for being shoehorned into the game just to promote said movie. Many people nowadays forget that he was even in the game.

The former is an intentional case of Character Development (though I think there’s enough debate for BBC over his true identity). While the latter I’m confused if it fits. Would speedrunners be a big enough OC amp to upgrade him to BBC or is the hatred over the blatant promotion and lack of use in casual play too overwhelming?

Chicken Little is hated for being weak in gameplay and for being included just to promote his movie. Neither of these count as narrative issues, and he has no appearances in the game outside of his summon, so he doesn't cause the right kind of hatred needed to be a Scrappy.

I've never seen people criticize DiZ specifically that much tbh. Plus, as mentioned, he gets Character Development. Easy cut.

Chicken Little should definitely be cut. He's not even a bad Summon (he's Magnet before you get Magnet, which is actually really good), so that just leaves the blatant Product Placement that can't qualify him since he's barely a presence.

I’ve personally seen some people find his redemption half baked but given I’m one of those people I could be biased, so I don’t know if he should be moved to Base Breaking or not.

And based on a recent edit it doenst seem Ariel qualifies either

From YMMV.Marvel 2099:

• The Scrappy: Punisher 2099 and Ravager 2099 are the most-hated series in the 2099 line for being generic '90s Anti-Hero comics. Many fans of Jake Gallows are familiar with Pat Mills' work on 2000 AD (e.g. Judge Dredd) and Marshal Law and view him as a similar Stealth Parody.

"Marvel 2099" is a whole line of comics, not a single work, and Ravage and Punisher were introduced as stars of their own books, each of which was published monthly for almost three years, until they ended in a big line-wide shake-up.

Even allowing for the lack of detail here - does the must be "Hated by the fans of the work" rule disqualify them, as the fans of the works starring them seemed to exist and kept those two series afloat?

It feels a bit broad for what the Scrappy is designed for. It'd be like if someone said "X show was the most disliked of Toonami's lineup in the 90s".

It might very well be a true statement, but it's not the narrow focus that something like the Scrappy is supposed to have. I would cut it.

I want to bring up this deleted entry from YMMV.Yakuza Like A Dragon

• The Scrappy: Nonomiya, the proprietor of Otohime Land. The game portrays him as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, but many fans take umbrage at how imbalanced this portrayal is: most of his kindly acts happen offscreen and are only revealed after his death, whereas on-screen he's shown to be needlessly cruel and predatory towards his workers (even boasting about how he only takes on women who are too desperate to turn down the work). Ichiban's defence for working under him - that it's better to work for someone who's openly a jerk rather than someone that pretends otherwise - is also seen as shaky reasoning from a character who's otherwise compassionate and was raised by sex workers to boot. Overall, Nonomiya is seen as an unlikable scumbag whose vindication comes out of left field, rather than the multi-faceted character that the game portrays him as, and his role in the game is regarded as one of its weakest points of writing.

The thing that strikes about the deletion is the fact the person who deleted it, ReyhanGalen, did not give any edit reason as to why they deleted it. So I think it be wise to ask here to see if Nonomiya fits or if the deletion is warrented.

Found this on YMMV.Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep

• The Scrappy: Huey, Dewey and Louie hold very little appeal in Kingdom Hearts compared to their uncle, Donald Duck, who is well-liked for being one of Sora's consistent and (usually) useful sidekicks. But what pushes them into this trope in Birth by Sleep is their incessant screeching during Rumble Racing; hearing their constant squawks of "LATER ALLIGATOR!", "NAH-NAH-NYAH-NAH-NAH!", "DON'T MIND ME!", etc. is sure to make the player's blood boil and possibly ragequit the entire minigame.

The triplets are practically non-entities in Kingdom Hearts so I'm not sure what the point of the first sentence is. While the three are annoying in Rumble Racing, the minigame has issues beyond those sound clips that make me question this entry.

I say cut it do to the fact that they are non entities.

Any thoughts on ?

Can a Scrappy Mechanic be Rescued from the Scrappy Heap? A paragraph in the trope page and the Laconic suggest the trope can apply to any concept or idea, but the rest of the page implies it can only define characters.

A Scrappy Mechanic that is Rescued from the Scrappy Heap is covered by Salvaged Gameplay Mechanic.

(x3) Assuming the community does hate him (which the entry suggests), then I feel he does count.

Since Like a Dragon is a Japanese franchise, you'll also want to find out what the Japanese fanbase thinks about Nonomiya. If they don't hate him and assuming the idea that most of the Western fanbase hates him is true, then Americans Hate Tingle would be the more appropriate entry.

YMMV.Sonic The Hedgehog IDW

• The Scrappy: The IDW version of Shadow has been poorly received, largely because he just can't seem to win a fight. His Suicidal Overconfidence gets him turned into a Zombot in issue #19, and he is later helpless to prevent Metal Sonic and Starline from knocking him on his ass and running off. His Adaptational Personality Change is also a major point of criticism, as many feel that the story leaned heavily into Shadow’s Jerkass Anti-Hero aspect while also removing some of his more likable traits.

They were previously removed from TheScrappy.Sonic The Hedgehog per this cleanup as not franchise wide hate, just a hated version. The cut entry also state fans do like Shadow, just hating this versions handling, which sounds like more grounds to cut. So again I ask about our rules for hated versions of characters counting or not.

Also, it has been stated the comics are in the same continuity as the games so this is the same version of Shadow, even though it makes little to no sense in-work and has many fans reject the notion. Do we want to tackle the issue of separate version when there's conflicting accounts/info on if they're different versions? Or is that more argument for disallowing versions of otherwise popular characters?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 19th 2023 at 1:18:54 AM

I’d personally says it’s allowed as much as SEGA claims IDW and Prime are in the same canon it clearly isnt

I’d realized additional reason to disagree.

1. By that logic otherwise liked character can be Scrappies for single moments/episodes as "we dislike them so reject them as same canon". (What counts as "justifiable" discontinuity seem too contentious even for YMMV.)
2. They Changed It, Now It Sucks! is able to convey the disliked changes (Shadow in IDW, Velma in Velma) such it makes Scrappy redundant complaining without the shoehorn/potential misuse (Shadow as discussed, Velma as she seemingly isn't hated by those who otherwise like that work).

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 20th 2023 at 10:49:38 AM

That last point isn't true. There's a lot of people who hate Velma even if they otherwise like the show. She's by far the most hated character in the show both by the very small number of fans and the Hatedom.

I'd also say keep the Shadow example (as long as he really is hated). Reminds me of Boom Shadow that everyone hated for being a pointless edgelord.

Edited by PhiSat on Jun 20th 2023 at 12:47:44 PM

Always felt a trope that dealt with a dislike version of a character in an adaptation is possible. But i know it end up being misused.

They Changed It, Now It Sucks! is that "trope". In fact I believe TCINIS was supposed to only apply to adaptations before Trope Decay.

Also is seems like the creators definition of "same continuity" is different than what fans use/hold to.

Velma will be valid (1.5 months left) if it eplains how fans of this specific series (not just the Scooby-Doo franchise overall) like it yet hate its main character. Maybe Shadow would work better if rather than version we say his current portrayal is hated long enough to count (how long does a previously liked character have to be hated to quality for Scrappy?). And is it worth considering if Shadow's Boom and Prime examples count or not (I believe they lack the stupidity/Badass Decay of IDW and Boom as a series was hated)?

And if we're allowing adaptations thoughts about Batgirl in WesternAnimation.Batman The Killing Joke? Or has the hate being forgotten nowadays mean it was never enough to count?

Boom as a series wasn't hated. You're probably thinking of the video game within the Boom canon (Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric). People really liked Knuckles especially, where he was characterized as a himbo with Hidden Depths.

Boom Shadow is listed as Base-Breaking Character right now though, so I guess some people liked him? Never seen anyone like him but it's not like I'm in the know about every Sonic space.

I don't think Prime's Shadow was hated? I never heard that.

Did people hate Batgirl specifically or the whole tacked on opening act? I thought the controversy and hate was specifically over the first third of the movie and some controversial shipping-related plot points and not Batgirl as a whole.

Edited by PhiSat on Jun 20th 2023 at 3:04:05 AM