The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

Characters T-V are done. I guess we can call this one.

What do you mean? There are still 663 wicks left.

I'm back!

But we weren’t supposed to remove all of the wicks...only direct examples.

Yeah we are done! Thanks to all that helped.

So here are the 5 tropes that we can tackle that I mentioned before.

Descriptions taken from the sandbox:

• Odango Hair: The description says what the hairstyle is like, but doesn't prescribe any narrative signficance to it. The on-page examples don't prescribe any narrative significance, either, and often feature Word Cruft, particularly of the "this example is an example" type ("X does this", etc.). The main page also displays the ZCE problem that appearance tropes frequently experience — comment markup appears 143 times in the page code (as of April 20, 2020), only eight occurrences of which are for notes at the beginning of the code, and the page is in the Pages Needing Example Context index. 686 wicks.

• Absolute Cleavage: Frequently misused in wicks to describe any woman with noticeable cleavage, while the actual trope is about a dress that exposes a woman's cleavage and part of her abdomen (like in the page image). 2249 wicks

• Lennon Specs: Zero-Context Example problems, often simply mentioning that a character wears round sunglasses, and concerns that it's People Sit on Chairs. 244 wicks

• Skunk Stripe: There seem to be several possible meanings, including supernatural powers and insanity. 1242 wicks

• Fingerless Gloves: Despite the description listing various meanings behind wearing these types of gloves, it's mostly filled with Zero Context Examples, which may point to a deeper issue with the trope. 1188 wicks

As I said before I would like to do Lennon Specs because it’s among the smaller tropes in the list (and would like something easier to get through). But whatever, gets majority vote is what we can do next.

Edited by MacronNotes on Dec 30th 2020 at 12:37:09 PM

Macron's notes

My 2c

For Lennon Specs I think there is narrative significance but the title does seem misleading.

For Odango Hair, I think it might be kept as an indicator of Chinese descent, but I'm not sure if the description can be broaden to include the current list of examples without being simply women/girls do their hair in 2 buns. And there is the matter of whether or not it (if limited to Chinese, Chinese descended or Chinese coded people) runs into being The Same, but More Specific than Anime Chinese Girl.

With that said since Odango Hair has two examples in the Magical Girl genre that are unlikely to be Chinese-related it might be worth investigating if there is a link (besides cuteness) that could be used.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Dec 30th 2020 at 12:56:35 PM

Odango Hair could be part of a Sailor Moon Sailor Senshi Send-Up? As in the page image?

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

I'd prefer Lennon Specs, but Odango Hair is accaptable as well.

I'm back!

I think when it’s not being used for an indicator of Chinese heritage, it’s usually used as a variation of Girlish Pigtails (the double bun version)

As I said before, Lennon Specs is supposed to about beatnik or hippie characters wearing round sunglasses as part of their costume and that type of eyewear is associated with those types of characters.

Eh as for trope to focus I want Lennon Specs but I can settle for Odango.

Macron's notes

Alright so far I can see the following path for Odangos. Split the trope up into three internal subtrope variants. One for Girlish Pigtails (though I'm not sure if would be by themselves a la Doremi's or with actual pigtails such as Usagi's), one for Anime Chinese Girl and one for Sailor Senshi Send-Up. Then replace the trope with a Disambiguation and/or fanspeak page.

For Lennon Specs I kinda don't see a reason why we can't work on that at the same time given the lack of Wick Count. And TBF it seems like it could eaisly be fixed by a rename and culling the examples that arne't hipsters/beatniks.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Dec 30th 2020 at 1:50:01 AM

Hmm I guess we could do them both since they don’t have dont have that many wicks. That would be killing to birds in one stone.

As for Odango I think we need to rename to make it clear that it’s not just about the hair style but I don’t think we can do that if it’s soft split between three types and I don’t think we need to split off three different bun tropes either. I kinda lean towards disambiguating between Anime Chinese Girl, Girlish Pigtails and Sailor Senshi Sendup

Edited by MacronNotes on Dec 30th 2020 at 2:32:36 AM

Macron's notes

Yeah, the only thing that ties them together is Asian / Orient. Oriental Odango Hair, while I like the alliteration, isn't that meaningful?

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

I mean yeah but to me the Odango is just part of the package of an Anime Chinese Girl. It’s almost always paired with Chinese clothing like qipao and other Chinese heritage indicators so I don’t think we should isolate it into its own trope.

Imma do a wick check for usage later.

Edited by MacronNotes on Dec 30th 2020 at 2:40:38 AM

Macron's notes

I guess I can holler for the topic being changed to Odango Hair And Lennon Specs?

Macron's notes

I think we should focus on one trope at a time, and I'd rather do Lennon Specs next.

Keet cleanup

I'm biased towards Fingerless Gloves because I'm the one who brought it up, but I'm also aware that that's an awful reason to vote for it.

Lennon Specs it is.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Well I will recycle the leftovers from the last trope suggestion batch so maybe it Fingerless Gloves will get picked this time haha.

ah yeah focusing on one is probably best haha

My vote is Lennon Specs as I have said many times.

Edited by MacronNotes on Dec 30th 2020 at 10:08:28 AM

Macron's notes

If it matters, these sunglasses are called teashades according to Wikipedia; I'm surprised that isn't a redirect. But either way, something like Hippie Shades or Beatnik Shades would clarify that they're associated with certain types of characters (such as those associated with '60s counterculture), and that they're about sunglasses and not eyeglasses.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

What about characters that are wearing tinted spectacles? So, they're eyeglasses, but also act as shades, too.

I'm not being awkward with that question. I crosswicked an example of a character who's wearing this kind, with the added complication that the eyeglasses are so small they can't possibly be of practical use so might just be a fashion statement. I don't know how common that is in the examples in general, but it does crop up.

Also, there are three reasons for the style listed, rather than two: hippie, beatnik and 'unconventional'. Since the first two roll into the latter, we're talking about the glasses being used to make a statement about how this character is unconventional in some way for the story they're in. The other wiki also mentions that they were basically a sign people are involved in a counterculture (in the real life case, the 1960s countercultures, but in storytelling, the unconventional nature might be more broad spectrum than just hippie or beatnik).

So, basically, it's some kind of Teashades Are Unconventional personality trope.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 31st 2020 at 7:45:29 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Tropes Are Flexible, so I'd imagine they'd count. My own glasses have photochromic lenses, so the lenses darken when exposed to sunlight.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Yes, a lot of my family use photochromic lenses. That's why I remembered the example, to be honest.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 14th 2021 at 3:13:08 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

I'm pretty sure that's what the trope should be about, the American 1960's counterculture is romanticized in fiction to the point where hippie/beatnik means "against violence, against capitalism, for creativity, for spirituality, and popular with anyone who isn't a square".

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

When it comes to rounded eyeglasses, whether tinted or clear, I think of old-timey glasses, like those glasses from that T.J. Eckleburg billboard. I mean, those rounded glasses would look old-timey by the time Lennon is wearing them.

ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔

Do you have an image of what you're referring to?

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

These ones.

ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔

Just here to say that I am conducting a wick check on Lennon Specs. I am halfway done and am hoping to post it Friday

Macron's notes