General Page Quote Discussion:

Much as I like Equestria Girls, its quotation for Passionate Sports Girl doesn't work that well. Firstly, it requires a character's name in brackets, which in turn requires 30% of the words in the quotation to be in brackets.

Secondly, "captain of every sports team?" Is that even a thing?

edited 31st Dec '17 4:21:43 PM by neoYTPism

I've noticed for the past while, but I really think we need to address what the page quote for "The Reason You Suck" Speech should be. People having been changing the page quote constantly for whatever speech they think fits best, only for someone else to change it without discussion. The past five page quotes have been from House of Cards (UK), Injustice 2, Portal 2, South Park, & World of Warcraft, with the three quote switches within the last month. It's annoying and I want either a definitive quote for the page that stays there or no quote at all. Any suggestions or thoughts?

My first thought is to revert it to the quote that was there pre-fight, appealing to a first-come-first-serve rule. As it so happens, I think the pre-fight quote was fine, and it also is the first page quote in the history. I mean the one from Avatar: The Last Airbender. Someone removed it because it was present in the example section, but that doesn't make sense (you could easily remove it from the example section instead, or just leave both of them since it's fine).

I think the World of Warcraft quote is weak, the Family Guy one is too long, the Portal 2 one isn't really an example (Glados is trying to Break Them by Talking), the Injustice 2 one doesn't make much sense without context, and the House of Cards one is a threat (rather than this kind of speech).

While the South Park one is a good contender, it being involved in this needless not-an-Edit War fight makes me disinclined to use it, and the Avatar quote worked fine anyway.

Note that ~Minister Of Sinister changed the quote to the House of Cards, Injustice 2, and World of Warcraft quotes, ~Elmo 3000 changed it to the Portal 2 one, ~Smug Trope changed it to the Family Guy one, and ~Meme Master changed it to the South Park one. Pinging them because any one of them might try to change the quote again when they should be discussing it.

Hi! I can't remember why I changed the quote for the "Reason You Suck" Speech page, I'm guessing I just thought the GLaDoS one fit better. I don't mind if it's changed again, or what it's changed to, or... anything, really. Change away, I will not change it back to anything. Happy new year!

Well, I am here, and while I can't speak for the others I can speak for myself on this subject. Since the current page quote is one of my implementation, I was actually content to leave it as it was, since I am satisfied the quote currently there represents "The Reason You Suck" Speech well as a trope in all its component pieces. But if that's not what other people feel, I will of course discuss the matter and put my own cards on the table.

In response to the above, since it was I who swapped out the Avatar quote and by implication set this quote war in motion, I feel the need to explain why I did so in the first place, and why I oppose restoring it simply because it was there first.

1. I did remove it because it was also in the examples section, but the reason I took that course of action and didn't remove it from the examples instead as cited above is that I also considered it inadequate. As a collection of sentences sorted together into a quote just on its own, its impact on me was minimal. Removed from the facial expressions and voice acting and soundtrack and exact details of who she was talking to (I sense a hidden spoiler), it has no sting and, considering who she's allegedly talking to, is painfully impersonal. I'd like to point out that some of the examples listed on the actual pages are absolutely scathing and such a pagequote would leave casual browsers ill-prepared for them. So evidently its fineness is debatable. 2. It's too short. You say the Family Guy one was too long (and it was) but as far as speeches go, Avatar's has too little to say to its subject. I feel like a pagequote should take at least two lines to say, more even, so that it feels like an actual speech, not something strung together in tiny sentences. 3. I also think that even with the speaker indicated it doesn't properly convey Katara's emotions in the scene cited. For someone to truly grasp what is being said they'd have to go onto You Tube and watch it, then go to a wiki and read the background and context in the episode itself. You might say the same could be said of any example, but a good pagequote should get the spirit of the trope across without needing to explain all the details of its scene around the quote.

As for the other examples, yes the Family Guy one was overly long, but for reference the Gla DOS quote was removed by me principally because it was already on the quote page and the rules of the site say not to do that. I replaced the pagequote of Senseless Sacrifice for the same reason — Space Marines last stands and such quote with a highly quotable line from Icewind Dale — and likewise on Omnicidal Maniac with Kefka Palazzo and Shinnok from Mortal Kombat X. Break Them by Talking and "The Reason You Suck" Speech aren't mutually-exclusive you know — their quotes pages share an example (the one from Community) and many villainous examples fall under both.

The Injustice 2 one, meanwhile, was only temporary while I placed it in the quotes page, a stopgap for finding a suitable replacement. It was never intended to stay for long (as you can tell by the fact I left all the potholes in the quote carried from the page it was listed on. But your reasoning for not having the House of Cards is silly. It's not a threat — he's not discussing direct action, just scintillating predictions and casting aspersions on the other guy's ability to run for office. Also the South Park one was good enough in my eyes as well.

Wrapping up, if my existing pagequote is judged insufficient, I vote for there not to be one. The Avatar one is too weak to serve as one, and I'd prefer this not escalate to an Edit War, so that's the best possible middle-ground. Or... go back to the South Park one, that would be fine too.

[Edit: Minister Of Sinister is not a sock of otemple700 (check ATT). This post was written to MOS as though they were also otemple, but I was wrong. I'll get back to the thread in maybe a day or two to make a more coherent response.]

Um... if Minister Of Sinister is the one who removed the Avatar quote instead of removing the quote from the examples section... then that means they're a sock of otemple700, who was reported in this ATT thread for changing quotes without discussion. They were even told to discuss it in this very thread before changing the quote.

The Avatar quote was removed in 2015 and the ATT thread was from July 2017. The "quote war" was in mid-swing at that point, but Minister Of Sinister continued to participate in the "quote war" in December 2017.

Also, I guess "quote war" is a good name for it.

But to respond to the coment in 4780:

If you consider a quote inadequate, you should discuss it. Same applies to me and everybody else, really. Also, whether it impacted someone in some way doesn't really matter? If it doesn't impact you, that may be a good reason to bring it to discussion, but that isn't reason to unilaterally make a change like that.

Moreover, she was talking to the person who killed her mother. There is no reason to disbelieve that unless there is evidence from the work to back up that assertion. This sounds like retroactively defending your decision.

Moreover, line count doesn't make any sense here. Different monitors and different devices will parse the page differently.

The text conveys what it conveys. They are short sentences because she is angry. Anger and anxiety are easy to show in dialogue by stringing together short sentences. Your third point seems to be in opposition to your second point about how it should feel like an actual speech at a lectern.

Just like before, you could have easily taken the quote off of the Quotes/ page, but you didn't.

Weren't you told, under the username of otemple700, to bring quote changes to discussion? Why did you change all of those quotes unilaterally?

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:27:21 AM by WaterBlap

Okay, I'm sorry, I got it something somewhere wrong. I know you have no reason to believe me but I have never heard of this otemple700 troper and have no association. I know you have no reason to believe me, since I cannot prove it, but I ask you to trust me when I say it. Perhaps check our IP addresses?

I think I have misremembered a portion of the process in the changing of those quotes: All I recall is moving the World of Warcraft quote to the front page because I thought it worked better and the instances with Injustice 2 and House of Cards happened likewise.

You say I should have discussed it, and I suppose I should have. I'm sorry. But for the record no one contacted me after changing those quotes, much less indicated that I had done anything wrong. (This is a neutral statement of fact.) As for the matter of the quote on the page being discussed being removed... I know I have no pull and no more authority on that particular matter than anyone else. It's just what I think should be done. Nothing more and nothing less. It doesn't mean anyone who disagrees with me is objectively wrong, simply that we disagree.

None of the quotes on Quotes.Five Man Band clearly illustrate the trope (at least to me) except the The Simpsons one and the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia one.

Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds current quote:

This was changed with no apparent discussion in January from the previous quote,

I vaguely recall that we prefer quotes on works pages to be something other than memes. Switch it back?

I support changing it back.

The other one is actually accurate as a laconic, at least. But as a main quote, no. Plus, it's not even from the work itself, just a separate one.

Hello?

Again, could someone please fix the quote on Guardians of the Galaxy (2015), to show who exactly says it? I tried posing this question on the page's discussion page, and didn't receive a response there, either.

I never watched the movie and don't know who says it. For any given movie, most people have not watched it. It's possible nobody currently in this thread knows.

Does the film have a forum thread over in the media forums? Or, it's a comic book film, isn't it, so maybe the comic franchise?

It's a cartoon, though I'll admit your point still stands.

I fixed the quote on Guardians of the Galaxy (2015).

For reason you suck speech, I highly recommend a commented out note pointing to this thread.

Agreed.

Not a fan of the quote for Always on Duty. Doesn't really fit; the quote is about an agency's odd hours, not everyone being on all the time. I prefer the Hot Fuzz one.

The quote on Flock of Wolves was changed without discussion a while back.

Old:

New:

I bring this up mainly because the editor who did the change didn't move the old quote to the quotes tab, didn't update the HPMOR example to not refer to "the page quote", and changed the Good Omens example to "Work Name, as seen in the page quote"^note from, admittedly, "Work Name, 'quote'", suggesting that they maybe don't have the best grasp on editing standards around here.

Revert or keep? Based on the quotes alone, I have no strong preference.

edited 4th Jan '18 8:26:20 PM by wingedcatgirl

The main page quote for Kid Hero was added by frequent ban-evader Johnnyfog. I want to remove the quote and replace it with a more appropriate quote from the quotes sub-page, but I'm not sure which one would work the best.

As reported on this post, the quote on Surprise Difficulty was unilaterally changed. I think a revert should do it.

Ehhh... I kind of agree with the people there who were saying that while the new quote was bad, a quote that's just from some random troper is a little bleh as well. I'd rather not use either one.

I vote Space Ghost or Earthbound. Also, wow, that's an awful quote johnnyfog put up. I'd vote to pull that even if it hadn't been from a serial ban-evader. (It's really been there for three years?)

My vote is for the Space Ghost quote, but I'd be fine with the Earthbound one too.

Should we use the chorus for This Is Me for the Self-Empowerment Anthem quote?

I think it works very well.

edited 5th Jan '18 4:38:27 PM by Vampireandthen

The chorus of what?