When I saw Saw II, I was annoyed at how the ending cut off so suddenly. Sure, Amanda's FaceHeel Turn/backstory reveal was cool even though I already knew who she'd be (although I thought she turned between the second and third films and was wondering "If he's there [in the safe], where's Amanda!?" so it wasn't a complete waste of a good twist ending), but it seemed a little hollow. A while later I realized: The house wasn't Jigsaw's game, and Amanda's game for Matthews wasn't for him to escape before the tape ran out, the whole film was the game she had set up for him! The Game Over was much more satisfying once I realized that Jigsaw's game hadn't led him to Amanda's trap, but it was entirely Amanda's trap and he'd already failed!
To add to that, what made the twist of Amanda being Jigsaw's accomplice really work was the realization afterward that you should not have been remotely surprised if you actually thought about it for a moment. She claims that she's being punished for being 'naughty', with a flashback scene of her cutting herself. But as is revealed at the end of the film, with the same scene shown but with a wider shot showing Jigsaw rooting her on, a man whose entire philosophy is based on proving through bloodshed that you value life would hardly have condemned her for such an act.
I saw that as her giving herself the scars to make her story convincing. After all, Paul was placed in the Razor Wire Maze because he cut himself (although he only did it for attention).
Also, as noted in the Director Commentary, not once during the entirety of the gas house did Amanda show symptoms of the gas such as the coughing everyone else did.
The twist in the original Saw was definitely cool, but after the adrenaline wore off logic tried to reassert itself. How did John stay so still? How did they not hear him breathing? When you rewatch the film, it gives you the answers: presumably he took the same nerve agent that kept the man from whom Amanda had to retrieve the key to her trap immobile, and his breath would naturally be rather weak given that he had cancer.
Saw III confirmed what was mentioned in the above spoiler.
Saw IV - while being a clusterfuck example of fragmented narrative, to say the least - had one part that seemed illogical at first, but made sense later (like a year later). When Rigg freed the Paris Hilton look-a-like from that hair pulling contraption, and then she later pulled out a knife stored in a cabinet, it brings out a curious question. How come she didn't tell him it was there, so he could free her from the device by cutting her hair instead of a slow reveal of the combination? It certainly would've eliminated any risk and/or extreme pain? Later, it became apparent that the test was a double entendre, based off Jigsaw's lesson in Saw IV: the only way people can be saved is to save themselves. If the blonde woman really valued her life, she would've told Rigg about the knife, but her selfishness became her undoing - t3hdow
Actually, the reason she doesn't tell Rigg about it is that she doesn't know it's a knife. The tape tells her there is something in the cabinet to help her deal with her Rigg problem, but the tape doesn't say what it is.
Huh. I must've misremembered that part. But if that's true, Jigsaw's intentions make even less sense. Even though Jigsaw knew Rigg wouldn't let her die, he wanted Rigg to know that saving everyone is a toxic idea. If Rigg followed that philosophy from the beginning, there's no way the blonde would've had any chance of saving herself besides telling Rigg about the hidden weapon (which could've been anything) and hope it'll help remove her from the device besides the official, painful way. Compared to the other victims, her's isn't as clear cut, and does nothing to help save the blonde either way. Then again, considering how hypocritical Jigsaw is...
Actually, if Rigg had followed the philosophy behind his game from the beginning, her trap might not have even activated to begin with, it's only when he rips one of the covers off that the trap activates, if he'd left her alone, one of two things would have happened; 1) The police would have found her (either because the neighbors would hear her screaming, or because the police eventually start looking for Rigg anyway), or 2) Her trap would have activated by itself, but it's one of the only non-fatal traps in the series (or at least, not immediately fatal), so there's a good chance she'll either be found in time, or it'll release her anyway and she'll get help in time.
The reveal as Hoffman & Amanda as Jigsaw's apprentices were twists in and of themselves. What makes them Fridge Brilliance, however, is when you realize that they revealed themselves exactly the same way that John did back in the original Saw: They were presented as mere victims in their traps, only to reveal to their ultimate victims that they were the ones manipulating the traps.
Saw VI- Most people seem to complain that the people in the various traps really didn't deserve to die; the insurance man was the real bad guy in the like. So what's the point of their deaths? Well, like always, Jigsaw says "live or die, make your choice" to his true victim, in this case Mr. Insurance. Playing off the themes of one life vs. another, think about what would've happened if the Insurance guy had decided that the janitor's life was more important than his and committed suicide by hyperventilating. Would the merry-go-round or any of the other traps ever have activated? Ultimately, by not seeing the intrinsic value of a lowly but clean janitor's life against his own tainted life, the blood is all on his hands for his initial selfish decision. -Teh Puppitz
Also, William may have deserved his death simply because when he chose who deserved to live, he let ALL his male employees die, the same way he had let both Jigsaw and Harold die, thus showing he hadn't learned his lesson - he dismissed a gender as a whole - and failing the test. Also, the Carousel Trap seems to be programmed to keep the worst people alive as long as possible (notice that Emily is 2nd while Shelby is 5th) similar to the method used by the killer in And Then There Were None, openly suggesting William to save the first two (Aaron and Emily). - Marc 3 K
What many people- and apparently Jigsaw- failed to consider was that the insurance people are just middlemen. The real culprits of Harold's death would be the doctors who refused to treat him unless they got paid.
Billy the freakish little puppet can seem oddly out of place in a series full of torture machinery and gritty, realistic violence. But consider what the core of the franchise really is: manipulation. Jigsaw is The Chessmaster through and through, and almost everyone, victim or villain, has been at one point a pawn in his long running game, from apprentices like Amanda and Hoffman to hapless hostages like Lynn or Adam. John runs everything behind the scenes all the way to his death, like a gruesome puppet show. Billy is the mascot because he symbolizes the game as a whole and the mechanical nature of Jigsaw's puppetry.
In Saw II, Amanda and Daniel are the only ones in the house who aren't coughing or showing other signs of dying. This shows that they have already been given the antidote.
It has always been unclear to me why Lawrence's wife and daughter were also a part of the trap in the first Saw, when they weren't shown to do anything even remotely bad. I think now that John knew Zepp wouldn't kill them. Zepp did have a sadistic streak and enjoyed the power he suddenly had, waving the gun around and making and smug comments to the video feed from Bathroom Trap. On the other hand, he was quite clearly a coward (and scared shitless when he suddenly had to fight Tapp, or even when Lawrence discovered his identity), and as John knew him before, presumably he knew Zepp wouldn't be able to murder a defenseless woman and girl in cold blood even under death threat. Especially since it seems that his primary goal was to kill Lawrence rather than them. Of course that assumes that John could predict all that, but you pretty much have to accept that he's omniscient to take these movies seriously anyway.
Another possibility: Zepp was never supposed to kill Lawrence's wife and daughter in first place, just Lawrence himself. That explains his gun-waving nicely; he had only to scare them (to put pressure on Lawrence), and did exactly that (in a clumsy manner fully expected from someone who doesn't do this sort of thing on a regular basis.) Notice how when the time runs out he doesn't tell them "I'll kill you now", he says "Lawrence made a mistake and I'll do what I have to do." Alison's sudden attack and Tapp's intervention prevented him from executing his original plan, but notice also when he stuns Tapp with a vase for some seconds, he doesn't go after her; rather, he declares, "Now I'll kill your husband" and goes off to do exactly that. The only thing that contradicts this theory is Zepp's tape, which says "Will you murder a mother and her child to save yourself?" However Adam didn't play that tape to the end; maybe the actual rules clarified that he needed only to threaten them with murder. A weak point, I know, but it makes everything else much more understandable.
Zepp didn't chase them because by that time he probably wouldn't find them before they had alerted somebody, and Word of God is his gun-waving was because he was enjoying finally having control over somebody else. And Adam did play the tape to the end. Jigsaw is simply a liar, a hyprocrite and a Manipulative Bastard and narcissistic sociopath- most of his victims are people he already knew who either annoyed him or whom he was envious of; his philosophy is not meant to be taken seriously. Given the amount of planning that goes into his traps and schemes its more likely that he is just a power-control serial torture-killer who feels the need to have people appreciate him 'vis a vie'' "saving" them and converting them to his cause, and he is perfectly willing to kill innocent people to do it (since he is never the one who actually pulls the trigger, he can probably make excuses for himself). He may be narcissistic enough to believe his own lies, but in the end he is just a loser (in his own mind) who wants to feel important.
Many people have taken issue with the fact that despite Bobby Dagen being the one who is being tested, his wife dies despite his trying his hardest to save her and his friends. Then it occurred to me: In V, Jigsaw mentions that he finds taking credit for someone else's work to be distasteful, especially when that work is inferior to his own. He was referring to Hoffman at the time, but the same basic principle can be applied to Bobby: Bobby was posing as a Jigsaw victim, thus imitating the other victims. He made up a poorly-conceived trap, when it's fairly obvious to anyone with medical knowledge (such as Doctor Gordon) that the pectoral muscles aren't strong enough to support the weight of the human body. Thus, it would make sense that Bobby is punished the harshest by having to watch his friends and wife die. It's no less inexcusable, but it makes more sense.
Not exactly. Body modifiers have actually done the body suspension and succeeded doing so. Bobby just needed to put them in deeper to succeed. Of course, he didn't have to impale them into himself; he could've used them as stirrups or put them under his armpits.
Except it's apparently well known by that point that Jigsaw and his various apprentices and Boxed Crook patsies monitor the trap victims remotely. The people in Bobby's support group have probably mentioned cameras being present, or tapes and screens offering messages that demonstrated that they were being watched. So out-and-out cheating his way through a trap probably didn't seem like a viable strategy.
A lot of people were bugged because of Jill's strong badassness pretty much was undone by SAW 3D. The problem is one has to look into it a lot more closely. Jill was able to get the drop on MarkHoffman because he was sitting down and was temporary distracted by his note to Amanda. Jill was able to pretty much own Hoffman with this info and rigged the chair that Hoffman was sitting in. The brilliance comes when you realized Jill is a trained doctor, and isn't someone who clearly is not trained as a fighter. Hoffman is also overall stronger and bigger then her. Jill was hoping for Hoffman's death because she knew that she only had one shot with the Reverse Bear Trap 2.0 and knew that Hoffman would come and kill her, if he lived which is why she went to the police for help.
The tagline for Saw V was, "You won't believe how it ends." Visit the IMDB message board for that film and a lot of people are crying foul, saying they saw Hoffman's framing Strahm as Jigsaw coming a mile away. That's not what the tagline is referring to. Think of how the movie ends; Strahm ends up crushed - pulverized, even - in the wall trap. How many films before Saw V showed such a trap (hell, even Star Wars had it!), but how many of those films showed every f'in detail of the final result? You won't believe how it ends indeed!
In Saw II, the Razor Blade Box seems to initially be an inescapable trap. However, if one looks at the top of the shot as it pans higher, you can see the lock holding the top of the box closed actually has the key already in the hole. If only its victim had taken a closer look around, she could have avoided a painful and gruesome death.
Hoffman's trap in Saw IV. Electrocuting an ungrounded person's feet is a truly terrible way to kill them, since the electricity won't go anywhere near the heart...but, since the goal wasn't really to kill Hoffman, it hardly matters.
It makes one wonder, aside from the fact that he was justifiably angry with being blamed for Seth Baxter's murder and framed/threatened him into being his apprentice, what Jigsaw saw in Hoffman and how a clever and resourceful man like himself could be so wrongabout the guy. You then have to remember that the man had terminal brain cancer that was gradually getting worse and while he was still rather brilliant in most aspects (obviously enough to build traps, make sure they worked, train his apprentices, overpower his victims, etc.), at the same time he isn't a mind reader and probably never even predicted that Hoffman would someday kill his wife.
Or at the beginning, at the very least. Jigsaw must have realized that should Hoffman find a way to survive his test, then Jill will be in great danger. Which is why he arranged for Dr. Gordon to execute Hoffman just before his death; as Saw VI implies, John knew Hoffman's sociopathy makes him unfit to continue his legacy.
If Amanda was able to emotionally breakdown even before the letter, what happens to the other people who lived from the traps? How emotionally miserable would they become?
If John could predict human behavior, then he knew that, at the end of the sixth film's main game, Brent would kill William. This means that he knew William would die, even if he had redeemed himself and learned his lesson, which, considering all he went through and who he chose to let live, he certainly did. This means that William's game was no more of a test than Amanda's traps; it was only a death trap. Yes, that means Jigsaw is guilty of using one of his games as revenge, rather than trying to teach someone a lesson. The fact that this game was part of his "final wish" says something about his priorities.
John could also predict that William was going to save only the women, which could also have been planned to enrage Brent further, because in his imbalanced state, the kid could easily be swayed to believe William's decision of refusing to cover his dad was based partly on gender.
I think that people might be seriously over-interpreting this sexism angle - I never even noticed it when I saw the movie and I don't recall any references being made in the characters' dialogue to this being an issue.
Well, there were Josh's last words, when he yelled at him for being "pussy-whipped" and how "a bitch" takes precedence...
That only proves that Josh is sexist, not that William is.
Keep in mind that he did decide to spare the old lady with a family over a young male loner. And then he let a supposed pregnant woman die because he couldn't make up his mind; the other male characters didn't put much of argument in their favor (one of them even tried to bribe him). I'm not sure gender was the issue.
Well, apart from Emily nobody made much of an argument in their favor. AND he still didn't save any man, and one of the three women he saves was exposed as lying, along with the only one he didn't, so we can say gender IS an issue. And it makes sense that these choices could be interpreted by an angry grieving teenager as sexism, because you can make the case that it unconsciously is. And TBH, killing the loner because 'no one would miss him' was the wrong choice to make.
Considering how messed up William's head clearly was by the time the carousel's potential targets were reduced to two, it's entirely plausible that he decided not to decide at all, and just left it to luck: whichever person was the next to halt in front of the shotgun, male or female, he'd save. It's not like he was demonstrably counting how many spaces it turned between one firing and the next, after all; between the pain, horror, guilt, grief, fear, and having the entire Dog Pit shouting at him and each other non-stop, the guy was barely coherent by then. Hell, he couldn't even look at the trap anymore.
Think of some of the traps, and what would happen if they somehow went wrong. For instance, the Venus Fly Trap from the beginning of Saw II. Imagine what would happen if Michael was in the middle of cutting his eye when the mask closed. His arms would get entangled and would smash into his face, leaving him in immense pain of his broken arms and of having several spikes in his head until he eventually died of blood loss.
Something like this wouldn't matter in the slightest to Jigsaw; all it would mean is Michael not escaping the trap in time, therefore not possessing the will to survive.
In the sixth film, Brent kills William in cold blood right in front of his innocent sister, meaning there is a witness who is probably going to tell the police about his actions. True, the viewer probably doesnt give a shit about Brent, but what about his mom? The poor woman just lost her husband and now her son is likely going to do time in prison.
Also from VI; there's no indication that the button for the carousel trap actually disables after William presses it twice. What if there wasn't a limit? What if he could have saved all six of them?
Crossing over with fridge horror but how is it that Jigsaw and Amanda, Hoffman and so forth were able to know how much poison, drugs, or sedatives to use on their victims prior to kidnapping them? I mean Jigsaw finally gave us an example of someone who didn't wake up in uniform time like the other victims, only to be awakened by Kramer due to him realizing how "unfair" it would be to be killed in his sleep, but was there ever an incident where someone had an adverse reaction to the poison (due to taking something else that screwed with the effectiveness of the drug) or perhaps even an overdose of what they had pumped into them?
Who's to say that the only games Jigsaw set up were the ones seen by the viewer? There could be numerous other incidents that the films never showed, and anything (accidental overdose of a victim, for example) could have happened during those instances. This applies to pretty much every fictional universe, actually. There's almost infinite possibility regarding events we simply never see.
Whenever there's more than one victim (especially in the first, second and fifth films), they don't usually wake up at the same time. Case and point; Gordon had been up for hours before Adam wakes up. In the second film, Amanda is the last person to wake up, and everyone else had clearly been up for a while. The dosage is irrelevant anyway, because the games are usually triggered when everyone wakes up/starts moving around.
In Jigsaw, with the part consisting of the three syringes, why didn't they just test them on the ground? Surely the acid-filled one's reaction would have been obvious.
Depends how strong the acid is, and what the floor's actually made of in that room. At a minimum, though, they might at least have tested a single drop on someone's skin, to check if it stung, before shooting it into Carly's bloodstream ... maybe even Carly's skin, since it was her life most at stake. Given that they'd already shown they had the nerve to touch a spinning saw blade, it can't even be argued that they feared the risk of a painful chemical burn too much to try.