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This thread is for tropers who have trouble with English and would like some help with the crazy grammar of this crazy language.

Write down what you wish to edit on the wiki. If you have been suspended from editing, another troper might be kind enough to edit for you after your suggestions have been corrected.

The thread is for help and feedback on your own suggested edits.

If you want help correcting other people's edits (e.g., if you find a page which seems to have grammar problems but want a second opinion, or you don't feel able to fix it by yourself) then that's off-topic here, but we have a separate Grammar Police cleanup thread that can provide assistance.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 16th 2023 at 5:37:57 PM

rafi Since: Jun, 2014
#2276: Nov 17th 2015 at 1:52:54 AM

[up]ok, saved for the future.

ConservativePip Since: Feb, 2015
#2277: Nov 17th 2015 at 8:52:45 AM

for SpitShake In the fifth season episode of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic in the Hoofields and Mccolts episode; two ponies do this to end a long-running feud.

edited 17th Nov '15 8:59:52 AM by ConservativePip

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2278: Nov 17th 2015 at 8:53:10 AM

[up] That's a Zero Context Example. Also, don't substitute numerals for typed out numbers in formal writing.

edited 17th Nov '15 8:53:38 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
rafi Since: Jun, 2014
#2280: Nov 17th 2015 at 12:50:11 PM

Another to add in Heroes Main Characters

Face–Heel Turn: In the new timeline, Matt is now a full villain. He is the Director of the Sunstone Manor, a place where the EVOs are imprisoned and he uses his Mind Rape power to brainwash them.

edited.

edited 18th Nov '15 3:46:05 AM by rafi

MyTimingIsOff Since: Dec, 2011
#2281: Nov 17th 2015 at 5:28:17 PM

[up]

  1. : "total full villain" is redundant. You only need one of those adjectives; they mean the same thing.
  2. : Use these ([==]) to prevent accidental redlinks. [=EVOs=] —> EVOs
  3. : "he use" should be "he uses".

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2282: Nov 18th 2015 at 1:56:59 AM

^^^^^

In the fifth season episode of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic in the Hoofields and Mccolts episode; two ponies do this to end a long-running feud.

A series work name should be in italics, like so: My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic.

An episode name like The Hooffields and McColts should be in quotes, like so: "The Hooffields and McColts". The word McColts needs to be inside null tags so it doesn't display as a Red Link, like this: [=McColts=].

You use the word "episode" twice and the wording is somewhat disorganized. At the end of this post I'll show how I would write it.

You can change this from being a Zero Context Example by saying specifically what the ponies do:

"two ponies do this to end a long-running feud."

-> "two ponies spit on their hooves and touch them together to end a long-running feud."

Note: I haven't watched the episode, I just assume that's how ponies would do a Spit Shake.

To sum up: I would change the original entry to look like this.

In the fifth season My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic episode "The Hooffields and McColts", two ponies spit on their hooves and touch them together to end a long-running feud.

edited 18th Nov '15 2:02:38 AM by Arivne

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2283: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:26:12 PM

I would like to add this to Absolute Zero's, Guise's, and Chokepoint's sections of the Characters.Sentinels Of The Multiverse page. Note Guise is a Forth Wall Breaker a-la Deadpool, so his part of the page has him speak on our behalf.

Absolute Zero

  • Arch-Enemy: Proletariat and Chokepoint.
  • Elemental Armor: Zero's Termi-nation promo has him create a suit made of ice instead of his usual cryosuit, which at the time was stolen by Chokepoint.

Guise

  • Badass Santa: Yes, children, I the amazing Santa Guise will bring joy and presents to me and my fellow heroes and coal and face punching to everyone on my naughty list!

Chokepoint

  • Arch-Enemy:
    • As Choke, her nemesis is K.N.Y.F.E.
    • As Chokepint, she changes out one nemesis for three: Absolute Zero, Bunker, and Unity.
  • Rummage Sale Reject: Chokepoint's 'Armored Animus' side features chunks of armor and technology from Absolute Zero, K.N.Y.F.E, Fanatic, Bunker, and Unity.

— This is for the Badass Santa page, under Tabletop Games

  • Sentinels of the Multiverse hero Guise has an alternate form called Santa Guise. This form allows Guise to give presents to the heroes (by placing the top card of each hero deck into play face down) and to let a single hero open all the gifts they got from him (by flipping over each face down card Guise gave that hero).

edited 19th Nov '15 12:50:46 AM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2284: Nov 19th 2015 at 3:26:56 AM

^

I don't have any English corrections, but:

  • Arch-Enemy: Proletariat and Chokepoint.

  • As Choke, her nemesis is K.N.Y.F.E.

Just giving character names is a Zero-Context Example.

Maybe a brief statement of why they're enemies or how they fight each other?

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2285: Nov 19th 2015 at 11:01:09 AM

[up] Mostly it's a game mechanic issue. Sometimes the nemesis reasoning is really solid (Baron Blade wishes to have revenge on Legacy - his nemesis) and sometimes it's not (Chrono-Ranger's nemesis is Plague Rat because a different rat hate his hand.

In game, any character who damages another character with the same nemesis symbol increases the damage dealt, so that's why the Arch-Enemy trope is all over that page: it's a game mechanic.

edited 19th Nov '15 11:01:46 AM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
rafi Since: Jun, 2014
#2286: Nov 20th 2015 at 6:12:24 AM

Another to add in Futurama M 1 Benders Big Score

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2287: Nov 21st 2015 at 3:00:18 AM

^

While Bender at first thinks he's lost Fry, he spots him in the window above the restaurant and shoots into the window, destroying much of the building. And fast-fossilizing Seymour in the process!.

Technically "And fast-fossilizing Seymour in the process!" is a sentence fragment because it doesn't have a subject. However, I don't think it's a problem because even native speakers of English write that way.

Since the first sentence is in the present tense, "fast-fossilizing" should be "fast fossilizes".

You end the second sentence with an exclamation point and a period. Since you have the exclamation point, you don't need the period.

edited 21st Nov '15 3:03:25 AM by Arivne

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2288: Nov 21st 2015 at 5:20:30 PM

Adding more to an preexisting entry for Sentinels of the Multiverse.

  • Actually Four Mooks
    • Some of the minion and environment cards represent groups — the Blade Battalion and Raptor Pack, for instance - show several members of the group on the card art. Implied in the case of Grand Warlord Voss's minions — while there's only one shown on each card, the fact that only ten are needed to overrun the world indicates they represent larger groups of his army.
    • For the Sentinels, this is inverted. The 'hero' is one deck for a group of four hero character cards to share and use together when all the other heroes have their own cards, and are treated as one hero character in regards to H and Plague Rat's Infection cards.

edited 21st Nov '15 5:22:47 PM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
SetsunasaNiWa Parole Model Since: Apr, 2015
Parole Model
#2289: Nov 22nd 2015 at 6:18:07 AM

@#2257 by Kingofsouls.

I wish to place these trope for Setback's section of the Characters.Sentinels Of The Multiverse page.
"These tropes" = plural. "This trope" = singular. "These trope" = a mixture of plural and singular,

Such apparent mixture can't grammatically work unless it actually is just a neighboring pair of words without immediate connection between them (For instance, in a sentence like "I want you to sort these trope ideas out properly", where both words connect to the word "ideas").

Setback's play style relies on building up a large amount of Unlucky Tokens, a mechanic unique to him, to fuel is myriad healing, damage, and redirection that he has at his disposal, just as long as he has enough when he needs them.

http://www.edufind.com/english-grammar/pick-right-quantifier/ I doubt that those "Unlucky Tokens" are uncountable. And if they are countable, they should be referred to as "large number of", not "large amount of".

The section uses "myriad healing" and "redirection" as somewhat important terms. Without knowing what they mean it's hard to correctly imagine the play style. How to know their meaning? Well... It would be better to rephrase and describe things slang-free, thinking of those readers who never played the game (and probably never will play it). "Redirection" in another work means

What's with the "<...> fuel is myriad healing <...>"? If it's a "his" with a typo, then redundancy of the following "at his disposal" fragment goes through the roof.

That "them" word at the end, does it refer to "unlucky tokens" or to healing, damage and redirection (skills)? It looks like another redundancy. The skills are fueled by tokens, so they're usable as long as enough tokens are there? There's got to be a way to say the same in a more crispy way. Or was the intended message different?

The whole paragraph feels tacked onto weak description that never actually makes a connection between Setback and Pete Riske, and has some useless reference to whatever "the alternate form" thing may be.

Play styles are not set in stone. Can't I play it, ignoring its abilities and tokens? I'll hazard a guess that I can. So it's better to put things more neutrally.

  • An Adventurer Is You: Setback falls into the Tank and DPS roles. With his healing and high HP he can tank the classic way. With Wrong Time and Place (and enough Unlucky Tokens) he can turn into an Avoidance Tank by sending damage towards the team to the enemy instead. And when he isn't being a meat shield he can attack and get more tokens to full his healing and attack deflecting.
Dubious addition. The trope seems to be mistreated here. If someone falls into a role, isn't it supposed to be a sharp pronounced example of said role? Instead, the roles are multiple, contradict one another, and are reneged by requiring either a stock or a supply of tokens.

If taken a bit differently, this example calls a character a DPS, because the character just can just deal damage (which is wrong).

Even if having to guess game-slang-speak would be forgiven, there's no way to tell if it's one skill or two skills there ("Wrong Time and Place"? "Wrong Time" and "Place"? "Wrong Time" and "Wrong Place"?) Reading through contributions like these is hardly worth the time of a non-fan. Non-fan won't gain anything due to ambiguity. Maybe skills and mechanics are better referred to in a different way. The problem is not exclusive to this example.

  • Arch-Enemy: Kismet and Revenant, the latter a minion in Frictions' deck.
A very bad Zero-Context Example. Judging by the page history, troper Kingofsouls is responsible for this contribution as well.

How does someone know that the two are arch-enemies? What impact does it make on ways to play the game? Around these two question there are ample opportunities to provide proper context.

  • Auto-Revive: Silver Lining allows Setback to resist a mortal blow by turning all of the Unlucky Tokens he has into HP.
Bad addition. Auto-Revive description and related pages do state that a death should happen and then be negated, rather than be prevented from occuring. Think of how differently the spectacle unfolds. The example either fits a different trope or has a misrepresenting context.

What is "Silver Lining"? Inherent trait? Buff? Artifact? High-level perk? Another character? Setback's guardian deity? I can guess what it is, it's just that first volleys of my guesses in these cases would be directed at the author of wiki contribution.

  • Attack Deflector:
    • Inverted and played straight at the same time with Wrong Time and Place. The first time Setback or one of his teammates takes damage it is forced to go to Setback instead, unless he removes enough of his Unlucky Tokens to deflect it to another target.
    • Inverted with Uncharmed Life, which can draw fire towards Setback when he wants to instead of automatically.
Feels like some kind of missing Transfer Pain trope would work better. YKTTW may be in order.

The first subbullet tells that the first time Setback is hit, you can use a skill(?) to make that attack hit Setback instead. Helluva skill that is, huh.

Second bullet makes not too much sense. First, which kind of "fire" does it talk about? Could it be forest fire? It could be something beneficial, like, some collectible fire that keeps you warm in harsh wintry conditions. Does it mean enemy attacks? Artillery and aircraft bombardments? Or maybe fire rather than ice, wind, earth elemental spells?

Second subbullet, second issue. "When he wants instead of automatically". Does this mean he has a schedule, like, "I want to draw fire towards myself on Saturdays from five till nine and on all weekdays combat phases"? What's the trope inversion here, I don't understand. If attacks are normally drawn to Setback automatically, then the point of destinction should be on the fact that he gets the ability to selectively stop the magnet effect. Or is the automatic effect random, not always triggering?

  • Butt-Monkey: If anything bad can happen, it usually happens to Setback.
Did he have cancer from age of three? No, it's a Zero-Context Example. Reading trope description, scrutinizing existing examples and visiting helping forum threads is something that could be advised. I don't think the trope applies.

  • Damage Sponge: While not on the level of Legacy, Scholar, or Naturalist, Setback can do a decent job of soaking hits and then healing after.
Zero-Context Example, misuse of the trope. It's like trope description was sent down the drain, only wild interpretation of the name to guess the trope remained.

  • Unluckily Lucky: Setback's luck tends to dance between one extreme and the other at an alarming rate.
Filled with Word Cruft, this is not an example. "Tends to"? In other words "it does not". How the extremes of his luck are to be measured to ascertain the dance between them? To whom the rate ("rate of dancing between extremeties"? :S) appears to be alarming? This is a bad addition. Maybe because the trope itself is weak definition-wise.

Alphabetization? How did "U" end up going before "E"?

  • Expy: Setback is similar to Booster Gold. Both are heroes who tend to bumble around and act unprofessional while on the field.
A very bad addition. Misuse and shoehorn. See the throes of pain people go through to fix these: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1340281179067020100. A few of such additions (which obviously don't invest into providing context) is enough for mods to suspend you.

  • The Fool: While not as clueless as other examples, considering his superpower is an enhanced physique and luck combined, he counts.
Remember this is a Wiki, there are no other examples to refer to in an example context (and even if it were, it would still leave ambiguity so as to whether it is about "others for the same game" or "other from all other works of fiction"). If he's not clueless, he's not The Fool. This is a shoehorned example.

Other examples insist that he has much of bad luck, which contradicts The Fool archetype further.

  • Friendly Fire: Invoked with Friendly Fire. With it, whenever a hero damages a villain, they have the option of damaging Setback as well in exchange for giving Setback more Unlucky Tokens.
Again, who is the source of whatever skill/mechanic/artifact/global-enchantment that Exactly What It Says on the Tin-misusing "Friendly Fire" is? Is an option always in effect due to Setback being present?

Friendly Fire is a redirect to Friendly Fire Index. Indices aren't to be listed as examples in trope examples list. Some further looking into may be in order. A play on Friendly Fireproof may be more appropriate.

  • The Gambler: Setback's playstyle. Most of his cards require a certain amount of Unlucky Tokens to work correctly, and his base power lets him get a token. He then must play the top card of his deck, which may or may not get his a card he can play, or want to play.
Again, a guesswork totally lacking understanding of the trope. This example is Not An Example that should be removed.

  • Idiot Hero: The art of the cards portrays this, with "Whoops! Sorry!" and Karmic Retribution being the best examples.
Zero-Context Example. Wiki readers don't have access to those cards art to get the message (or maybe to get that the message is wrong).

Zero-Context Example and People Sit On Chairs? In trying to dissuade from the latter, event impact on the storytelling aspect of the game must be conveyed. That will naturally avoid the former problem.

  • Shout-Out: Setback's Incapacitated side is a reference to Spider Man No More.
Zero-Context Example. What is the "Incapacitated side" here? A skill? Some affliction? Backstory event? Particular status effect appearance art?

  • Splash Damage: Friendly Fire turns all of your teammates' attacks into this. If a hero hits a villain for damage, they can do damage to Setback to give him Unlucky Tokens.
The inconsistency in wording between this and proposed "Friendly Fire" example preceeding this — it makes me realize that to even plow through, I need to know how many players play the game, what are the mechanics. The game is supposed to be a card one, isn't it? But then the splash damage should be not all-encompassing and be avoidable by putting some distance from it. Nothing implies this. Seems to be just another misuse of a trope.


For Music.Public Enemy
  • Self-Deprecation: Lyrics of "He Got Game" start by mixing some grand cosmos stuff contemplation with the mention that the verse comes six times rehearsed.

edited 22nd Nov '15 10:42:45 AM by SetsunasaNiWa

SetsunasaNiWa Parole Model Since: Apr, 2015
Parole Model
#2290: Nov 22nd 2015 at 11:47:37 AM

@#2271 by andrew369

Here's another one for the Love Live Character trope:
  • Death Glare: In Episode 3 of Season 1, Umi gives this to Kotori after Kotori forgets her warning a couple of days earlier about making a below-the-knees dress for her or else Umi will not wear it for the upcoming performance.
edited 11th Nov '15 5:44:52 AM by andrew369

By offering "another one for Love Live Character trope", you seemingly imply that there's a "Love Live Character trope", and you propose something for it (while not saying what that something is). It could be corrected to "another one for Love Live Character trope list" (or the same with the "lists" at the end). Or it could be "another one for Love Live Character tropes page." Or something else, who knows.

This proposition should be added under which section exactly? This trope example makes not a character, but a part of the story. Thus, it should go into Anime/ tab, and not to Characters/. (Anime/ at the moment redirects to Franchise/ so Franchise/ is the final destination).

"Gives this" is crufty. Trope name in a list is like a header. Poor reference makes readers stop for a moment and track back and forth to remember what is being said. Like, imagine a paper book refer to something important by comparison to the book name (you have to tuck a finger between pages, shut the book and check its cover before continuing reading). Everyone should also learn that there's more to a trope than just its name.

"Knee" should be singular, it's called "below the knee" because it sounds better that way, and if a typical dress goes below one knee, it's highly unlikely to be above the other. (those extra hyphens are one of the ways to make sure readers take the word combination as a whole in contexts that could make figuring out intended word connections somewhat tricky)


@#2280 by rafi
Another to add in Heroes Main Characters
  • Face–Heel Turn: In the new timeline, Matt is now a full villain. He is the Director of the Sunstone Manor, a place where the EVOs are imprisoned and he uses his Mind Rape power to brainwash them.
edited.

Another misplaced addition. Heroes Reborn (2015) already has such example. And no surprise that that is the page to hold it. The fact an idea arose for such an addition means there are ways to improve navigation of Characters.Heroes Main Characters page. Such as adding a short lead-in to point people into the direction of newer series page.


For Characters.Startopia Kasvagorian section:
  • Your Size May Vary: Kasvagorians undergo a two-step slight size decrement while entering a Slumber Pod (cheap resting facility, basically a high-tech reclining bed with a door/lid). Their character model is too big and would protrude through the Pod exterior otherwise. They "grow" back in the same manner when they come out.

edited 22nd Nov '15 11:56:46 AM by SetsunasaNiWa

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2291: Nov 22nd 2015 at 3:58:53 PM

...*deep breath*

"These tropes" = plural. "This trope" = singular. "These trope" = a mixture of plural and singular,

Simple typo.

Setback's play style relies on building up a large amount of Unlucky Tokens, a mechanic unique to him, to fuel is myriad healing, damage, and redirection that he has at his disposal, just as long as he has enough when he needs them.
http://www.edufind.com/english-grammar/pick-right-quantifier/ I doubt that those "Unlucky Tokens" are uncountable. And if they are countable, they should be referred to as "large number of", not "large amount of".

Fair deal.

The section uses "myriad healing" and "redirection" as somewhat important terms. Without knowing what they mean it's hard to correctly imagine the play style. How to know their meaning? Well... It would be better to rephrase and describe things slang-free, thinking of those readers who never played the game (and probably never will play it). "Redirection" in another work means

It's not slang. “Myriad' as in 'a countless or extremely great number'. (okay he doesn't have that many but he does a good number of cards that let him heal and redirect damage away from him). And 'Redirection' as in 'to cause to move in a different direction.' with the context being damage redirection.

And the <...>'fuel his myriad healing'<...> is a typo. I meant to say 'is'.

The 'them' means the Tokens. The Tokens act as magic points so to speak. The only hero to use a mechanic like this is Setback. No tokens? No healing, damage redirection, and other fun things.

The whole paragraph feels tacked onto weak description that never actually makes a connection between Setback and Pete Riske,

Setback and Pete Riske are the same person. I could add how he decided to do some good and become a superhero to the description.

and has some useless reference to whatever "the alternate form" thing may be.

Most definitely not useless. This is a game mechanic. Most of the heroes have multiple character cards, each with different powers and HP value. The player can choose one of their hero's forms before the game starts to play as that hero and the form they choose slightly changes their playstyle. And each alternate form card showcases a hero at different times in the story line. In Setback's case, his regular form is him just starting out as a hero, and his alternate form – Dark Watch Setback – is Setback when he formed the Dark Watch with NightMist, Ex-Patriette, and Mr. Fixer. Base Form Setback likes to get extra card plays with his base power (a skill he always can access), and hoping not to get screwed over by doing so, while Dark Watch Setback focuses more on avoiding damage with his base power.

Play styles are not set in stone. Can't I play it, ignoring its abilities and tokens? I'll hazard a guess that I can. So it's better to put things more neutrally.

Well, in Sentinels, it really depends on the hero. The hero is the playstyle. If you play as a hero like Legacy, your playstyle is to serve as a Tank and protect the team. Some heroes can switch between playstyles easy during the game (Mr. Fixer is king of this, as changing how he helps the team is his playstyle). For Setback, his playstyle is building up Tokens and then providing cover for his teammates or spamming damage.

An Adventurer Is You: Setback falls into the Tank and DPS roles. With his healing and high HP he can tank the classic way. With Wrong Time and Place (and enough Unlucky Tokens) he can turn into an Avoidance Tank by sending damage towards the team to the enemy instead. And when he isn't being a meat shield he can attack and get more tokens to full his healing and attack deflecting. [[quoteblock]] Dubious addition. The trope seems to be mistreated here. If someone falls into a role, isn't it supposed to be a sharp pronounced example of said role? Instead, the roles are multiple, contradict one another, and are reneged by requiring either a stock or a supply of tokens. If taken a bit differently, this example calls a character a DPS, because the character just can just deal damage (which is wrong). Even if having to guess game-slang-speak would be forgiven, there's no way to tell if it's one skill or two skills there ("Wrong Time and Place"? "Wrong Time" and "Place"? "Wrong Time" and "Wrong Place"?) Reading through contributions like these is hardly worth the time of a non-fan. Non-fan won't gain anything due to ambiguity. Maybe skills and mechanics are better referred to in a different way. The problem is not exclusive to this example.

Characters in Sentinels can sometimes fall into two roles, though many specialize in one. Setback has many consistent ways to deal damage with his one shots like 'Karmic Retribution' and 'Exceed Expectations' and ongoing cards (cards that stay in play until destroyed), the best one being 'Looking Up'. He also falls into the Tank role at the same time. He can tank the classic way by taking damage then healing afterwards thanks to 'Cashing Out' and 'Surprising Fortune'.

The Avoidance Tank part comes into play when Setback has the ongoing card 'Wrong Time and Place', which lets him bounce damage the team would have taken either towards himself, or by spending enough Unlucky Tokens he can send it towards the villains. Since Sentinels doesn't have a way to just say 'oh your attack missed' redirection is the closest way the game can do that.

Arch-Enemy: Kismet and Revenant, the latter a minion in Frictions' deck.
A very bad Zero-Context Example. Judging by the page history, troper Kingofsouls is responsible for this contribution as well. How does someone know that the two are arch-enemies? What impact does it make on ways to play the game? Around these two question there are ample opportunities to provide proper context.

This is mostly a game mechanic. In game, each hero and each stand alone villain has a nemesis symbol. If you damage another target with that symbol, you do an extra point of damage. Many of the heroes and villains have vendettas, grudges, and other relationships between themselves. Some are obvious (Legacy/Baron Blade have a deep family history regarding the other, and boy is it ugly), some are not (Chron Ranger hates Plague Rat because he's a rat, and Chrono 'hates' rats.)

Setback's two nemesis – Kismet and Revenant – however...don't seem to have any connection in the backstory. They just don't like each other. The closest reasoning I can figure is that both Setback and Kismet have luck themes, but that's it. I'm not really sure about the connection between Setback and Revenant. So, mostly it's because the game says they are arch enemies.

Auto-Revive: Silver Lining allows Setback to resist a mortal blow by turning all of the Unlucky Tokens he has into HP.
Bad addition. Auto-Revive description and related pages do state that a death should happen and then be negated, rather than be prevented from occuring. Think of how differently the spectacle unfolds. The example either fits a different trope or has a misrepresenting context. What is "Silver Lining"? Inherent trait? Buff? Artifact? High-level perk? Another character? Setback's guardian deity? I can guess what it is, it's just that first volleys of my guesses in these cases would be directed at the author of wiki contribution.

True, but Setback still has to run out of HP/become incapacitated/get K Oed/die for it to trigger. If it was me, I'd say it's a case of Setback just hiding or was just assumed to be taken out. The game also has no way to revive an heroes who become incapacitated, not counting the heroic Sentinels (but that's a different story)

'Silver Lining' is an ongoing that destroys itself to prevent Setback from running out of HP. It's meant to show how hard it is to keep Setback down, and with the card art and flavor text, it shows Setback surviving an experiment that killed the other test subjects.

Attack Deflector:
  • Inverted and played straight at the same time with Wrong Time and Place. The first time Setback or one of his teammates takes damage it is forced to go to Setback instead, unless he removes enough of his Unlucky Tokens to deflect it to another target.
  • Inverted with Uncharmed Life, which can draw fire towards Setback when he wants to instead of automatically.
Feels like some kind of missing Transfer Pain trope would work better. YKTTW may be in order. The first subbullet tells that the first time Setback is hit, you can use a skill(?) to make that attack hit Setback instead. Helluva skill that is, huh. Second bullet makes not too much sense. First, which kind of "fire" does it talk about? Could it be forest fire? It could be something beneficial, like, some collectible fire that keeps you warm in harsh wintry conditions. Does it mean enemy attacks? Artillery and aircraft bombardments? Or maybe fire rather than ice, wind, earth elemental spells? Second subbullet, second issue. "When he wants instead of automatically". Does this mean he has a schedule, like, "I want to draw fire towards myself on Saturdays from five till nine and on all weekdays combat phases"? What's the trope inversion here, I don't understand. If attacks are normally drawn to Setback automatically, then the point of destinction should be on the fact that he gets the ability to selectively stop the magnet effect. Or is the automatic effect random, not always triggering?

First bullet: Oh yes is it powerful, because it doesn't just work with Setback: It works for any hero getting hit, not just Setback. With enough Unlucky Tokens Setback can render the entire team invincible for a round or two. It is glorious, but also mandatory so if he runs out of tokens before he gets rid of it all that damage he can't avoid will sting, especially if he doesn't have enough tokens to redirect an attack that hits the entire team.

Second Bullet: 'Uncharmed Life' works like 'Wrong Time and Place', but it is an 'you may' effect instead of a 'you must' effect. When the damage is assigned, Setback can choose to jump in and take the damage instead if he wants to. I thought this applied as an inversion of Attack Deflector because a deflector played straight sends attacks sent towards you to someone else, while an inverted Deflector sends damage towards someone else towards you.

And by 'draw fire' I mean to say 'To bring about deliberately; provoke'. And that's what 'Uncharmed Life' does: Deliberately draw damage towards Setback.

Neither example really counts as a Transfer Pain trope, because how it works mechanically is 'If character X would take damage, character Y takes it instead.” Character X never takes damage, so anything that would react to Character X taking damage – like a Counter-Attack effect - never triggers because Character Y took the damage instead.

How about this?

  • Attack Deflector
    • Inverted with 'Uncharmed Life'. Like 'Wrong Time and Place' Setback can draw damage a teammate would take to himself. Unlike 'Wrong Time and Place', it's optional, so Setback doesn't have to take it if he doesn't want to.

Butt Monkey: If anything bad can happen, it usually happens to Setback.
Did he have cancer from age of three? No, it's a Zero-Context Example. Reading trope description, scrutinizing existing examples and visiting helping forum threads is something that could be advised. I don't think the trope applies.

Misfortune tends to follow Setback no matter where he goes. His superhero name even came from Tachyon calling him a setback and he took it as his name because he thought it was cool. The card art showcases his the best because odds are, if he's featured in the art it involves him getting hurt. How bout this?

  • Butt-Monkey: If any kind of misfortune where to occur, odds are it's going to happen to Setback. Most of the card art that features Setback showcase him is several bad situation, such as struggling to avoid getting his face bitten off by Plague Rat while Ra prepares to his both of them with a fireball, getting zapped by Tempest's lightning due to being too close, and getting shot by his girlfriend.

Damage Sponge: While not on the level of Legacy, Scholar, or Naturalist, Setback can do a decent job of soaking hits and then healing after.
Zero-Context Example, misuse of the trope. It's like trope description was sent down the drain, only wild interpretation of the name to guess the trope remained.

Setback is surprisingly hard to kill. He has 31 HP (30 for his Dark Watch form), which by Sentinels standards is pretty high: The only other hero I can think of with more HP is Haka, who clocks in at 34. He also has a fair number of cards that allow him to heal any damage he takes, or to redirect the damage so he doesn't take it in the first place. And 'Silver Lining' can increase his longevity even longer by acting as a one time shield should he lose all of his HP.

Unluckily Lucky: Setback's luck tends to dance between one extreme and the other at an alarming rate.
Filled with Word Cruft, this is not an example. "Tends to"? In other words "it does not". How the extremes of his luck are to be measured to ascertain the dance between them? To whom the rate ("rate of dancing between extremeties"? :S) appears to be alarming? This is a bad addition. Maybe because the trope itself is weak definition-wise. Alphabetization? How did "U" end up going before "E"?

First, ordering issue and operator error.

Second, Setback's theme is luck, good and bad. This is symbolized with his Unlucky Tokens and his card effects. One example of how this plays out is 'Looking Up'. It's an ongoing effect that lets Setback hit a target for a good amount of damage and gives him three tokens. It gives him a way to consistently do damage and quickly build up his Token amount for his flashy attacks. But 'Looking UP' as a secondary effect that causes Setback to damage himself every turn if he has 10 or more counters. Another mechanical example is “High Risk Behavior', another ongoing effect that increases the damage he deals to the villains based on how many tokens he has, but in turn the villains do more to him as well (Both good and bad luck on the same card!)

The art also showcases his. Most of the time, it's Setback getting in trouble, but some of them like 'Plucky Break' show Setback getting distracted by a penny on the ground, and luckily avoiding a bolt of lighting from the villain directly behind him.

Expy: Setback is similar to Booster Gold. Both are heroes who tend to bumble around and act unprofessional while on the field.
A very bad addition. Misuse and shoehorn. See the throes of pain people go through to fix these: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1340281179067020100. A few of such additions (which obviously don't invest into providing context) is enough for mods to suspend you.

At least 90% of the Sentinels cast, especially those on the hero side, are expies. It's part of the game's appeal. The Setback/Booster Gold similarities are:

  • Costume. Both are black/gold with a symbol on the chest. If you look at them, they are almost exactly the same: (Here is Setback, and here is Booster Gold.
  • Both characters tend to get looked down by other more professional heroes. Setback in particular took his superhero name after Tachyon called him a “Setback'
  • Both are often considered to be clueless fools.
  • Both fell into the hero business (though Booster had more selfish reasons: Setback became a hero to lend a hand)

The Fool: While not as clueless as other examples, considering his superpower is an enhanced physique and luck combined, he counts.
Remember this is a Wiki, there are no other examples to refer to in an example context (and even if it were, it would still leave ambiguity so as to whether it is about "others for the same game" or "other from all other works of fiction"). If he's not clueless, he's not The Fool. This is a shoehorned example. Other examples insist that he has much of bad luck, which contradicts The Fool archetype further.
Okay, this might be pushing it a bit because Setback clearly does know the danger he puts himself in. But on the other hand, his superpower is luck of the lines of bending down at the right time (like what he does on the art of 'Plucky Break'), and he's not exactly bright. And he is very optimistic. He tends to strug off the bad stuff and moves on. And many of the other heroes and villains think he's out of his league. So, still probably not an example, but here is my reasoning anyway.

Friendly Fire: Invoked with Friendly Fire. With it, whenever a hero damages a villain, they have the option of damaging Setback as well in exchange for giving Setback more Unlucky Tokens.
Again, who is the source of whatever skill/mechanic/artifact/global-enchantment that Exactly What It Says on the Tin-misusing "Friendly Fire" is? Is an option always in effect due to Setback being present? Friendly Fire is a redirect to Friendly Fire Index. Indices aren't to be listed as examples in trope examples list. Some further looking into may be in order. A play on Friendly Fireproof may be more appropriate.

'Friendly Fire' is an ongoing card that states that whenever another hero hits a villian, that hero can also hit Setback for damage to give him more Unlucky Tokens. The art showcases Setback getting hit by a bolt of lighting because he was standing right next to the person shooting it out of their hands.

The option is only present when the card itself is in play, so the Friendly Fire aspect is a mechanic (though there are fringe cases in Sentinels as some powers allow them to hit a fellow hero at will just because). Friendly Fireproof in Sentinels really doesn't work because of this, but it could be playing with that trope because 'Friendly Fire' is one of the few cards that react from that case.

The Gambler: Setback's playstyle. Most of his cards require a certain amount of Unlucky Tokens to work correctly, and his base power lets him get a token. He then must play the top card of his deck, which may or may not get his a card he can play, or want to play.
Again, a guesswork totally lacking understanding of the trope. This example is Not an Example that should be removed.

This is mostly a mechanical issue. Setbacks' main style of play is luck: Do I do this and get enough tokens, or do I not and hope it doesn't bite me in the ass? His base power (the power he always has access to) lets him play the top card of his deck, he may run into horrible situations like playing 'Cause and effect' and thus dealing himself a ton of damage at the wrong time.

Though now that I think on it Setback plays with this trope. He fits the flavor of The Gambler (Dice/luck theme, and his day job is a blackjack dealer), tends to rely on luck though he does have power thanks to an experimental serum. Personality wise he averts it hard by being very cheerful, optimistic, and is not an Anti-Hero nor cunning or aloof.

Relationship Upgrade: With Ex-Patriette by the time they've formed the Dark Watch
Zero-Context Example and People Sit on Chairs? In trying to dissuade from the latter, event impact on the storytelling aspect of the game must be conveyed. That will naturally avoid the former problem.

I am reasonably sure that one wasn't me. I can fix this, there is a backstory between the two.

  • Relationship Upgrade: Setback teams up with Ex-Patriette to stop a recently resurrected Mr. Fixer. After they calmed him down, Setback and Ex-Patriette formed the Dark Watch and become an Official Couple.

Shout-Out: Setback's Incapacitated side is a reference to Spider Man No More.
Zero-Context Example. What is the "Incapacitated side" here? A skill? Some affliction? Backstory event? Particular status effect appearance art?

Here is some context: Each hero character card has two sides. One side has their HP and their base power, which is a skill they always have access to. If a character runs out of HP, they are incapacitated. They lose all cards in play, but are technically still in the game but can only do one of the three effects that side says the can do during their turn.

The reason I bring his up is that no matter how great a hero is, eventually they fall. Every hero has art on the Incapacitated side of their defeat which varies form hero to hero. Young Legacy's Incapacitated side has her father Legacy hold the clearly dead Young Legacy in his hands, Chrono-Ranger is stuck in the middle of nowhere, Guise gets crushed by the Incapacitated box (He is a Fourth Wall observer.)

A famous page in Spider Man No More has Peter Parker walk away from a trash can that his costume is in. The art of Setback's incapacitated side his Pete Riske (our hero!) walking way from a trash can that has his costume in it.

Also, quick tidbit, all the art in the game is considered to be cannon: If it is drawn on a card, at some point in the story line it will happen. So that means that Setback eventually gives up being a hero and throws his costume away like Peter Parker did, thus making this more than amusing shout out to a famous scene. Lets try this.

  • Shout-Out: At one point in the plot, Setback gives up being a hero and throws his costume away. This event is portrayed on the Incapacitated side of his character card, and is a direct reference to Spider Man No More

Splash Damage: Friendly Fire turns all of your teammates' attacks into this. If a hero hits a villain for damage, they can do damage to Setback to give him Unlucky Tokens.
The inconsistency in wording between this and proposed "Friendly Fire" example preceeding this — it makes me realize that to even plow through, I need to know how many players play the game, what are the mechanics. The game is supposed to be a card one, isn't it? But then the splash damage should be not all-encompassing and be avoidable by putting some distance from it. Nothing implies this. Seems to be just another misuse of a trope.

The game is played with a group of hero characters (the intent is one hero per player, but it's not uncommon for a single player to play as the entire hero team of 3-5 heroes). As explained above, 'Friendly Fire' is an ongoing card that allows a hero who deals damage to a villain to deal damage to Setback as well. This is an optional effect that is available as long as the 'Friendly Fire' card is in play. But the idea is the same: Setback gets hit as well as the villain for being to close.

Flavorwise, Setback gets hit as well as the intended target because he was standing too close and go caught in the cross fire (which now that I think about it, tends to happen to Setback often). The art of that card shows Setback getting zapped by fellow hero Tempest because Setback was standing right next to an alien that can control lighting as he was shooting said lightning.

===

As for more trope entries, I have two for Guise's section of the Characters.Sentinels Of The Multiverse page. As he knows of the Fourth Wall, his section is written as if he is adressing the reader.

  • Chest Insignia: Like me, my lovely Chest Insignia changes every five minutes or so. It's like having every single symbol on me all the time!
  • Medium Awareness: I keep telling the other heroes that I am the best hero to play as in this game, but they just look at me weird.

edited 22nd Nov '15 5:05:00 PM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
ConservativePip Since: Feb, 2015
#2292: Nov 24th 2015 at 7:29:11 AM

SpitShake

  • In a fifth season episode of My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic two ponies from the Hoofields and Mccolts do this to end a long-running feud.

Can I be unbanned from editing soon?

edited 24th Nov '15 7:33:15 AM by ConservativePip

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2294: Nov 24th 2015 at 12:53:42 PM

@Conservative Pip: More information is needed. You need to describe why the above mentioned act fits this trope. Trust me, I have the 'not enough description' problem too.

Moving on, I have two tropes for The Lion Guard:

  • Fearless Fool: Bunga's impulsiveness and fearlessness is one of his defining characteristics, often getting into trouble because of it. At the same time, these same traits lead Kion into recruiting Bunga for the Lion Guard.
  • You Just Had to Say It: Kiara asks Bunga what his Catchphrase means, which results in him singing a song about it. Timon's response is to moan "You just had to ask."

These are for Apostate's section of the Characters.Sentinels Of The Multiverse page

  • Fallen Angel: Well, he is an evil angel who uses The Legions of Hell and Artifacts of Doom as his minions and weapons.
  • Good Wings, Evil Wings: Apostate has a pair of black raven wings befitting the Fallen Angel he is.
  • Good Scars, Evil Scars: Apostate has a huge scar going across the right side of his body.
  • There's No Kill like Overkill: Apocalypse, a card that when it triggers destroys everything except character cards and Relics note . This is almost never a good thing for the heroes as it can wipe away everything they have (apart from the few Relics Fanatic and NightMist possess) while leaving Apostate's relics intact. His minions on the other hand...
  • Walking Shirtless Scene: Apostate is always depicted shirtless.

edited 24th Nov '15 3:21:52 PM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
MyTimingIsOff Since: Dec, 2011
#2295: Nov 24th 2015 at 7:13:12 PM

[up]


  • Fearless Fool: "Impulsiveness and fearlessness" are TWO characteristics, not one. Also, "often getting into trouble", they way the sentence is worded, makes it sound like the characteristics are getting into trouble. Change it to "getting him into trouble".
  • You Just Had to Say It: Don't see any issues here.

  • Fallen Angel: I'm guessing that by the way this is worded, the word "is" is meant to be emphasized when spoken. If so, use italics to reflect this.
  • Good Wings, Evil Wings: Add "that" between "angel" and "he".
  • Good Scars, Evil Scars: Don't see any grammar issues here, but it could use more context regarding what makes his scar "evil".
  • There Is No Kill Like Overkill:
    • "when it triggers" should be surrounded by commas. "a card that, when it triggers, destroys..."
    • Inside the note: "Technically" should be followed by a comma. "itself. But" should be changed to "itself, but". "everything" and "it" should have a comma between them. "and thus" should just be "thus".
  • Walking Shirtless Scene: No issues here.

edited 24th Nov '15 7:14:16 PM by MyTimingIsOff

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2296: Nov 24th 2015 at 8:36:00 PM

@My Timing Is Off: In regards to Fallen Angel, I didn't intend to put emphasis on 'is'. I don't see any horrible problems by adding the italics

In regards to Apostate's scar, it's pretty big and ugly. But I'm not sure what you mean by 'what makes the scar evil'. He's a Fallen Angel, which screams "I am EVIL!!!" and he has a scar running down half of his chest. Is that what you mean?

Lets try this: —

The Lion Guard:

  • Fearless Fool: Bunga's combination of impulsiveness and fearlessness is one of his defining characteristics, which often gets him into trouble. At the same time, these same traits lead Kion into recruiting Bunga for the Lion Guard.
  • You Just Had to Say It: Kiara asks Bunga what his Catchphrase means, which results in him singing a song about it. Timon's response is to moan "You just had to ask."

These are for Apostate's section of the Characters.Sentinels Of The Multiverse page

  • Fallen Angel: Well, he is an evil angel who uses The Legions of Hell and Artifacts of Doom as his minions and weapons.
  • Good Wings, Evil Wings: Apostate has a pair of black raven wings befitting the Fallen Angel that he is.
  • Good Scars, Evil Scars: Apostate has a huge scar going across the right side of his body.
  • There's No Kill like Overkill: Apocalypse, an Ongoing card that, when it triggers, destroys everything except character cards and Relics note . This is almost never a good thing for the heroes as it can wipe away everything they have (apart from the few Relics Fanatic and NightMist possess) while leaving Apostate's relics intact. His minions on the other hand...
  • Walking Shirtless Scene: Apostate is always depicted shirtless.

I also have a few more tropes for Apostate:

  • Casting a Shadow: Apostate can deal infernal damage, which is a damage type that very few characters can deal.
  • Damage Reduction: Many of the Relics in Apostate's deck provide damage reduction for the Relics, and in one case for Apostate himself. This often forces the heroes to go after Apostate rather than his toys, which is worse than it sounds.note 
    • Condemnation, Apostate's Cool Sword, reduces damage it takes by one.
    • 'Fiendish Pugilist' reduces damage Apostate takes by one.
    • 'Runes of Malediction' reduces the damage Relics take by two, which includes itself.
    • 'Periapt of Woe' gives Apostate a damage buff and reduces damage the Periapt itself takes by two.
  • Power Fist: 'Gauntlet of Perdition', which lets Apostate deal ifernal damage whenever he deals a target melee damage.
  • Tome of Eldritch Lore: The 'Tome of the Unknowable', which is full of Things Man Was Not Meant to Know.

In case you are wondering why I'm putting card names in single quotes, it's because one of the above thought cards with lower case words in their titles were different cards. Like Setback's Wrong Time and Place.

edited 25th Nov '15 4:05:17 PM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2297: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:46:25 AM

^^^^^

Conservative Pip: Please see my suggestion above regarding your My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic example. To sum up, I would change your example as follows:

In the fifth season My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic episode "The Hooffields and McColts", two ponies spit on their hooves and touch them together to end a long-running feud.

Note that McColts is written as [=McColts=].

edited 25th Nov '15 3:48:01 AM by Arivne

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2298: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:53:12 AM

^^

"Bunga's impulsiveness and fearlessness is..."

->"Bunga's combination of impulsiveness and fearlessness is..."

"whenever he deals a target Melee damage."

->"melee damage."

rafi Since: Jun, 2014
#2299: Nov 25th 2015 at 4:19:03 AM

Again for Heroes Main Characters (Matt Parkman)

  • Lotus-Eater Machine: He enters Daphne's mind in her last moment of life, creating a fictional storybook ending for her in Paris to make her happy.

edited 26th Nov '15 3:08:14 PM by rafi

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2300: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:53:50 PM

@Rafi, who is he you speak off? You are being to vague with who you are talking about. Since you want to put this in a character page, you need to say which character this trope applies to.

—-

For Gravity Falls S2 E19 "Weirdmageddon Part 2: Escape from Reality", the demons run into a force field that nobody noticed until they ran into it. I think this counts as Some Kind of Force Field, but noone says the "It's some kind of force field!" line. The closest thing we have to the line is Bill shouting a Big "WHAT?!", going up to the force field and poking it, and them saying "This might be more complicated that I thought.". I think it does count but I would like to be sure.

Please don't mind the above red link. The page exists but for some reason it auto breaks the link or something.

  • Some Kind of Force Field: Bill sends his demon friends to spread their chaos across the world, only for them to run into a force field that was unnoticed until then, despite said force field being large enough to cover Gravity Falls.

—-

@Arvine.

I'm trying to keep game terms capitalized. So capitalizing damage types was intentional.I can undo that if it needs it.

And fixed.

Edit: For Sentinels of the Multiverse

  • Wall of Text: Should Guise become Incapacitated, a literal Wall of Text with this Incapacitated abilities falls on him.

For the Characters.Sentinels Of The Multiverse page, at the top, to explain the reason why Arch-Enemy is in every section without explaining the game mechanic fifty times.

Tropes that apply to all the heroes

  • Arch-Enemy: Each hero - alongside each villain - has one or more symbols on their. If one damages another with the same symbol, then extra damage is dealt due to them being nemesis.

edited 26th Nov '15 5:46:01 PM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination

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