Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Yeah I think film Gould is a but his comic book counterparts is a

Lemme make one more proposal before writeups:

What's The Work?

Quigley Down Under, starring Tom Selleck as Matthew Quigley, a cowboy, sharpshooter and badass who uses a specialized rifle, claiming he has little use for revolvers, who answers an add for a sharpshooter...in western Australia. Once there, though, Quigley meets a crazy woman who attaches herself to him and discovers the add is for...some nasty business. Quigley takes exception to that, and makes...quite the enemy as a result in wealthy Cattle Baron Elliot Marston.

Who Is Elliot Marston And What's He Do?

Elliot Marston is a wannabe-cowboy, wealthy land baron and all around slimy bastard, played with aplomb by none other than Alan Rickman. From the start, Marston sits down with Quigley and reveals that the services he requires? Quigley will be shooting at 'wild animals' to clear them from Marston's land. The issue? The animals are the Aborigine people, who Marston is in the process of committing genocide on, referring to them as filth, vermin and unwanted. Quigley's response is to throw Marston out of his own house. Unfortunately, a woman named Crazy Cora, who's attached herself to Quigley, thinking he's her former husband Roy, is there as well...a furious Marston has Quigley beaten, then has him and Cora taken into the Australian wilderness to die of thirst. The Aborigines rescue them and the two set off for civilizaiton again.

We see the result of Marston's orders: his men run down a group of Aborigine people, killing them. Quigley manages to kill the men and save the natives, but later? We see on Marston's orders again, another group of Aborigines have been pushed to the edge of a cliff. And then they simply ride them over the cliff, men, women and children alike, to Quigley and Cora's utter horror. The only survivor is a little baby who Cora takes in as a substitute for her deceased son (Cora hid in the cellar with her baby when a group of drunks invaded her home and accidentally smothered her child to death when trying to keep him from crying. Her husband put her on the first ship to Australia and never wanted to see her ever again).

Quigley manages to reach the nearest town and obtains ammo from a local gunsmith who hates Marston and his men...unfortunately, Marston has the town attacked to get Quigley with multiple people killed as a result. Quigley kills all but one of them, who he sends to tell Marston he's coming for him. When arriving at Marston's ranch, Quigley ends up captured...Marston, deciding to have fun, has Quigley given a revolver to educate him in the 'quick-draw' style....however? Quigley proves to be an excellent hand with a revolver, draws quicker and kills Marston and his men as a result. Quigley comments he has little use for revolvers...but he never said he couldn't use one.

Freudian Excuse?

Interestingly, Marston mentions his parents were killed by Aborigines back in the day...here's the thing. He says this without any emotion, and only using this as an example of how they're 'savage', in the same breath as he describes their habits and the way they live. He never once displays sadness or pain over it, and his hatred of them is entirely financial and racial. He's sadistic and cruel towards them and gives zero indication he ever loved his family in the slightest, and given what a sociopath he is?

In fact, he's far more driven by the financial gains, and wants to be even wealthier. The aborigines are just an obstacle to him claiming all the land. So pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

He never displays care for another human being. His views towards his own men are barely concealed contempt at best (when one arrives back from a fight with Quigley, Marston rebukes him for bleeding over his carpet). The closest he gets to a humanizing bit is trying to duel Quigley rather than shooting him on the spot...but this is only because he thinks he's a much better shot than Quigley and thinks it'd be fun to kill him in a quick-draw duel.

When dying, he does seem to appreciate the irony in having mistaken Quigley's comment on having "not much use" for revolver, but no, nothing redeeming there.

Heinousness?

Only bad guy.

Conclusion?

A murderous, genocidal land baron out to wipe out an entire people in the nastiesst ways so he can claim their land?

Keeper.

Here's the quote from the Magic: the Gathering short story released more than two weeks ago. It features Nicol Bolas committing mass genocide on the plane of Amonkhet. Tell me if it's good enough to put on the quote page.

"The gods of Amonkhet roared and cursed, but no blow from their weapons would land. The trespasser's power was at least equal to their own. The dragon landed atop the tallest tower, closed his eyes, and began to channel a spell.

The time for violent choices had come.

The gods felt a surge of mana weave around the dragon as a tangle of malevolence. They grasped desperately for spells to protect and defend.

But they were too slow.

The dragon opened his eyes and every mortal old enough to walk dissipated into the sky.

A brilliant white light engulfed Naktamun, and the seven gods fell to their knees in agony as countless souls vanished from existence."

-Nicol Bolas conquers the plane of Amonkhet in a single moment, Magic: The Gathering

Elliot Marston.

Elliot Marston.

A yea to Marston.

to Marston

Oh, and Future? Never do that again. We told you in advance film!Gould wasn't going back up unless you could rebuff the points that were made to cut him. You didn't do that and just restated the original arguments. Ergo, there's no point in bringing up a candidate we discussed and cut unless we actually missed something, which isn't the case at all with Gould.

Marston. This is Alan Rickman's fifth CM.

RIP Rickman, man. One of the most painful casualties of 2016.

Amen to that. Gone way too soon.

I guess five will be as far as it goes from the looks of it too. There's a fanfic Snape that counts, but that's not really the same, is it?

@Scraggle I thought Lighty said it was okay, but there may have been a miscommunication. Well I tried and it didn't work regardless, so that's that. I'm sorry.

I would say because the comic was written as a tie-in to the movie that that should be enough to reinstate him, but it's clearly not the case. Glad the comic fleshed it out much more to everyone's liking than the movie apparently did.

Now I'll concede. I don't like it, but I don't have to like it. I just got to accept it and move on because it is what it is.

edited 26th Jun '17 7:51:31 PM by futuremoviewriter

Both fanfic Snapes were cut. Rightfully so, I'll say... one of the fanfics we had him listed on was apparently a cult recruitment tool or something along that.

On the subject of fan work examples, I've got two MLP fic examples that I'd like relitigated and probably cut.

• The Immortal Game
  • Titan is one of Equestria's Elder Gods as well as the father of Luna and Celatias. For all his talk of being the rightful ruler of Equestria, he shows little to no concern for their subjects, constantly threatening to destroy Equestria if the ponies don't stop resisting his rule and having no problems with killing his own son after he's depowered. His wife Terra was originally married to her brother Empyrean, but had to Mercy Kill him after he was corrupted by Discord. Titan blamed Harmony, his first wife and Terra's mother, for this and killed her. He then forced his daughter Terra to become his new wife, subjecting her to the Insanity to make her into the sort of madmare that seems to greatly enjoy torturing one daughter and trying to kill the other.
  • General Esteem is Rarity's father. Whereas Nihilus was created by an Artifact of Doom to be a creature of pure evil, and Titan and Terra are gods who are technically above normal morality, Esteem is just a sadist who's so in love with the concept of war that he raises his daughter via brutal Training from Hell, kills his wife when she refuses to help him unseal Titan, and, upon Titan's release, does whatever he can to crush any resistance. This includes driving the Sliver of Darkness through Twilight's eye to create Nihilus knowing she'll be awake during everything after, brutally killing any pony who opposes the new regime, and upon his death at Twilight's hooves, claiming to have killed and ate Spike as a final spiteful lie.

This one's another unabashed Dark Fic, as the work page says, filled with — so I quote verbatim — "War Is Hell, the corruption of ideals, Rage Against the Heavens and Rage Against the Mentor, Mad God predecessors, mass war, brainwashing..." oh, and apparently horrific torture, cannibalism, and incest. And I'm quite sure we agreed we agreed taking the setting of MLP to that kind of territory isn't kosher in the slightest.

May I receive some feedback on where we stand on this?

Oh, and I'll give approval for Nicol Bolas' quote there. Sounds like he's gotten quite a bit nastier ever since we last saw him.

edited 26th Jun '17 8:02:14 PM by Scraggle

'Yes' to Marston, 'No' to Film!Dylan.

BURN THEM! BURN THEM ALL!!!! (This Game of Thrones watchthrough's getting into my head, man....)

Ok, so, I Lied. I have ONE more proposal to do.

I wasn't originally gonna do this one, as this character already has a film incarnation that counts. BUT, the version I'm about to propose is far worse than his film incarnation, AND far more interesting than the film incarnation, who is regarded around these parts as one of the most boring CMs out there.

Ladies and gentlemen, THE FALLEN.

Who is he?

The Fallen is the Greater-Scope Villain of the entire IDW continuity of the Bayformers.

The Fallen was once a member of the Thirteen Primes, thirteen entities created by the Allspark to preside over the universe.

Now, the power the Allspark exerted to createthe Thirteen was enormous, and now, it is extremely weak and unable to provide much extra power for the Thirteen, so the Thirteen decided to begin using a device known as a Star Harvester to harvest the energy of entire stars, then use the energy to slowly refuel the Allspark's power.

The Thirteen had one rule: They would, under no circumstances, harvest a star that was sustaining heat on a nearby life-filled planet, as they believed all life was sacred.

All....except for one.

What has he done?

The Fallen came to believe that the Allspark was "speaking" to him, telling him that his destiny was to replenish its energy in full, at which point it would make him more powerful than the rest of the Thirteen Primes, his "brothers", and he would reign supreme. It's up to the reader to decide whether the Allspark actually WAS speaking to him somehow, or if the Fallen was just having psychotic, narcissistic delusions.

To complete his "divine mission", the Fallen, without the knowledge of the other Primes, created a race of robotic beings he called the Decepticons to assit him, and dubbed a being named Jetfire as his second-in-command.

Using these Decepticons, the Fallen used the Star Harvester to harvest a sun.....that was keeping a planet filled with life warm, leading an entire planet's life to be wiped out.

When confronted by the Primes, the Fallen subtly shifted the blame to Jetfire, then used the situation to make Jetfire and the other Decepticons hate the Primes for "short-sightedness."

With the Primes declaring that the Star Harvester could now only be used when they had ALL reached an accord, the Fallen created his own Star Harvester and Matrix of Leadership in an attempt to drain another sun, fully knowing that it was supporting sentient life.

This fails miserably, leading the counterfeit Star Harvester and Matrix to explode, embewing the Fallen with immense power in the process.

At this point, the Fallen proceeds to finally lose whatever vestige of heroism he had, as he proclaims his plans to get revenge on the his Prime brothers, and to take the Allspark as his own personal weapon, announcing that he now wants to become an Agent of Death itself, and bring glory to annihilation.

The Fallen then disappears for several years, wherein he goes to countless worlds filled with sentient life, then slaughters them all, taking their knowledge, weaponry, and strategic intelligence for his own, either from plundering their storehouses, or by using his powers to absorb their intelligence straight from their minds.

By the time this is done, the Fallen has butchered at least a couple billion sentient entities across the universe, with him boasting to have assimilated absorbed a collective intelligence of seventy trillion sentients. And seeing as he "absorbs" knowledge right before murdering....yeah.....

With his power at its peak, the Fallen calls his Prime brothers to a planet called "Earth", claiming it is uninhabited and a prime candidate for sun harvesting.

Once the Fallen, Jetfire, and their Decepticon forces arrive on Earth before the other Thirteen, Jetfire is shocked to discover the planet is indeed inhabited, by beings called humans.

As soon as he notices these humans, the Fallen begins squishing, crushing, or flinging them away, taking sick glee from torturing something smaller than himself and so....INSIGNIFICANT.

When Jetfire realizes the Fallen plans to both harvest the Earth's sun, thus wiping out humanity, and slaughter his Prime brothers, he attempts to stand up to his psychotic master, only for the Fallen to severely wound him, then fling him to his Decepticon army to be ripped apart.

The rest of the Primes show up, at which point the Fallen gleefully betrays and massacres them all except one who, while distracting the Fallen, manages to gather up the life forces of his fellow Primes, then uses their powers plus his own to seal the Fallen away for all eternity, hopefully ending his plans.

This doesn't last, however, as, a few millenia later, the Fallen gathers enough power to reach out and contact the impulsive Megatron, who resides on Cybertron, and convinces him to "rebel" against the corrupt leadership of Cybertron and lead the charge to take Cybertron back in his name, all while lying that it is the "righteous" thing to do.

Thus, Megatron kickstarts a horrific war that lasts for years as his forces, dubbed the Decepticons, duel Optimus Prime and his Autobots for control of Cybertron, leading to countless lives lost on both sides.

Eventually, all of Cybertron is so devastated by the war that both sides are forced to flee the planet, leaving the Fallen still locked away for years more as the Decepticons set up shop on the planet Earth.

Soon, Megatron makes attempts to steal the Allspark, so as to release the Fallen once more, leading Megatron and the Decepticons to attack and kill hundreds of innocent humans in their quest, with Optimus Prime and the Autobots showing up soon after to fight and ultimately stop the Decepticons.

The Fallen then has Megatron use a fragment of the Allspark located in the body of one Sam Witwicky to finally unleash him, at which point the Fallen shows up in Egypt, where the ancient Star Harvester he had buried all those millenia ago resides.

The Fallen plans to activate the Star Harvester and wipe out all of humanity SOLELY to "spite" his Prime brothers for stopping him long ago, and can't WAIT to watch as every last human dies screaming in agony.

Luckily, Optimus Prime, using Deus ex Machina No. 35, manages to attack the Fallen and, convincing Megatron that the Fallen had plans to dispose of him once Earth was destroyed (With the story itself heavily implying this), both Optimus and Megatron fight the Fallen, culminating in Optimus running the Fallen's skull through with a spear, destroying the Star Harvester and saving the Earth.

And everyone lived happily ever after until Sam dumped with Megan Fox and hooked up with Rosie-Huntington Whiteley, Sentinel Prime showed up, and those freaking racist bots survived.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Nothing at all. His original path down evil began when he THOUGHT he felt the Allspark calling to him, telling him he would become the greatest of all Primes if he took the intiative in harvesting stars from planets, and while this.....does lend itself to some questions about the Fallen's sanity at first, the Fallen gets over the whole "Must obey Allspark" mindset EXTREMELY quickly, deciding he himself would become an "Agent of Death" and become the most dreaded entity the unuverse had ever seen.

GDV?

Unlike his film incarnation, who, though not a GDV, was EXTREMELY bland, this comic version of the Fallen is actually marginally INTERESTING, as his original "fall" from grace is given an entire issue to be explored, and his whole mindset of "NOW I AM BECOME DEATH" is pretty darn cool. No GDV here.

Heinousness?

Worst in the entire Bayformers' comic verse, even COMPLETELY blowing his film counterpart out of the water, as while the film iteration tried to wipe out billions, this comic version SUCCEEDED in wiping out tens of billions. Killing humanity? Icing on the cake for our comic version.

Alongside a much more explicit hand in the War for Cybertron and his blatant manipulation of Megatron? Definitely bad enough.

Final Verdict?

I know it MIGHT seem a bit redundant, as his film version is already a Keep, but this comic version of the Fallen has a plethora of more crimes, much more characterization, and a noticeable different role in the story proper, so honestly, I don't see an issue with Keeping him.

edited 26th Jun '17 8:18:04 PM by Ravok

Yea to this version of the Fallen. Glad to see something interesting was done with the character in an alternate continuity.

to The Fallen...again. He does sound far more interesting here than he did in the movie.

This doesn't disqualify the comic version of Dylan, does it? I want to reiterate that I give the comic version of Dylan a too, but then again, I'm just restating the obvious. I'm so tired. Goodnight everybody!

edited 26th Jun '17 8:58:18 PM by futuremoviewriter

Could you please get off Dylan? The comic version keeps. The film version doesn't. End discussion. I don't think this needs to be said again.

I was saying the comic version and I'm done with that. Again...goodnight everybody!

edited 26th Jun '17 9:02:54 PM by futuremoviewriter

Martson and Fallen.

Random question, but I was wondering who was one of your most hated suggestions? For me, it was Cleek. He was a cartoonish villain with no discernible reason for why he does what he does, is downright hateful, an extreme domestic abuser, etc. I hated the book in general, so I did the only logical thing any sane person would do: bury the book in my backyard.

to Mr. Marston and the Fallen. What's wrong @Ravok, do you miss my Transformers recommendations already? (Just joking)

Sounds about the appropriate treatment of a Jack Ketchum book.

One character I put up that I particularly despised? I've said it before, but Barrot from Fractale. One the singular nastiest anime villains I've ever seen and one of the most godawfully hateable as well. Of course, Barrot's also a well-written example of a very detestable character as well (as opposed to Josh from Megan is Missing, which I hate for much different reasons). One of the premiere examples of a Hate Sink, I think.

edited 26th Jun '17 9:11:11 PM by Scraggle

Marston and the Fallen. I agree that those MLP fanfic examples should be cut.

Yes to Marston (And man, even after a year when Alan Rickman died, it still stings) and this infinintely more interesting version of The Fallen.

Most hateable CM? Interesting question, since there are very two ways you can look at it.

Most hated as in best, most effective Hate Sink? TK from Dead Rising 2 really comes to mind: that prick is just too damn good at getting under your skin and seems to take an unholy glee in being an ass to Chuck. And being freaking hard to fight didn't help him either. In a similar vein, I feel the same way in regards to Matt Engarde (Whose defeat is way too satisfying for its own good) and Warden Norton.

Most hated as in worst written? I'd say most grimdark god-awfully written creepypasta/fanfic villains just due to, once again, god-awful writing. Most other bad stuff? Mainly elicits a yawn from me at worst.

EDIT: OOH! Another example of what I thought was a good example of a hate sink was Kivas Fajo from Star Trek TNG. Dude gets props for being one of few villains to legitimately make my skin crawl with how much of a sleazy creep he was.

edited 26th Jun '17 9:38:35 PM by FriedWarthog

I meant hate as in Hate Sink. Whether it be bad writing, or the fact that they leave a deeper impression in you.

Maybe I'm biased, but it feels like there's a difference between pointless grimdark like "Cupcakes" (if that was ever even considered to count) and a fantasy war story with actual arcs, which does ultimately reaffirm the values of the show (which itself tries to go somewhat dark, accounting for its target audience). But if villains' actions are enough of a hangup... eh, I'll abstain.

(Ironically awareness of this thing, along with the Pony POV Series, was what largely got me interested in FIM in the first place.)

I'm here to request edits to be made on previously approved examples from Assassination Classroom; This is because the way they were put on the YMMV page heavily spoiled twists regarding the plot since the Complete Monster examples in question don't have any spoiler tags currently and there weren't any warnings to the readers on the page about this. My attempt to fix this involved adding spoiler tags to what was already there, which I didn't realize was in and of itself an issue for examples of this trope, and then slightly expanded on a character's examples on top of that. I returned the page's examples to their original state once I was made aware of my error, but I uncommented them due to the spoiler concerns relating to them in their current state.

The proposed examples to be put on the page in favor of the ones that were originally accepted are:

• Akira Takaoka is a brutal military trainer known for torturing his students with sadistic relish while he breaks them mentally. During his brief stint as Class E's trainer, once he sheds his friendly seeming persona he is willing to brutalize any unruly student, regardless of gender. After being ousted, Takaoka devotes himself to revenge. After stealing money to buy a bio-weapon and hire hitmen, he infects Class E with a virus to cause a horrifyingly painful death as they slowly suffocate under the weight of tumors. The few students who escape this fate are targeted for even worse fates as Takaoka intends on burying a girl named Kayano alive in cement in a bathtub full of material lethal to the kids' teacher Korosensei, which would force him to sacrifice his life to save her. To drive in his victory, he even destroys the antidote while gloating he might use the money to purchase middle-school aged kids to murder on a regular basis as some twisted celebration.
• Shiro, real name Kotarō Yanigasawa, was a Mad Scientist focused on utilizing anti-matter in a human body, and the reason Koro-sensei may destroy the world. To this end, he used the famed assassin the God Of Death as a human guinea pig in painful experiments, using his own fiancee as their liaison since Yanagisawa figured she was worthless as a hostage. When the God of Death escaped, destroyed the lab and took Yanigasawa's eye, the scientist formed the identity of Shiro and plotted his vengeance. He later implanted a boy named Itona with the same tentacles, as his "guardian" force him into E class with the only purpose of killing Koro-sensei (showing no regard for the safety of any of the children involved every time he bothers to bring Itona to the school he's supposedly attending, even intentionally putting them in danger at points, while always keeping himself safe in anti-Koro-sensei fabric from head to toe), and abandoned him to die when he'd served his purpose. Mutating the assassin's former protege into a monstrosity, he tested his new success by having him annihilate a giant building—and anybody inside—, before attacking Koro-sensei and his students. Having the second God of Death attack Koro-sensei, Yanagisawa opted to then have the students attacked, gloating how he'd kill every single one of them painfully and Korosensei would be forced to watch his class die before dying in despair. When his former fiance's sister attempted to help Korosensei, Yanagisawa had her impaled through the chest and gloated how he'd intended to use her as a "replacement" for her sister.

Reasons for the changes:

Takaoka's example's spoiler tags are to protect the twist that he was the one who set all of those events in motion for that specific story arc, as when it happens the reader is not meant to know who he is until near the very end when he reveals himself. A brief line was also added on how he lures victims into a false sense of security before torturing them, as this is a part of how he breaks his victims mentally.

Shiro's spoiler tags are far more important for the plot of the story as a whole; the beginning of his example goes into why Koro-sensei has a deadline for destroying the world and how he became "Koro-sensei" in the first place, which are what serves as driving questions throughout much of work. Information about how Shiro further mistreated Itona and the other kids in Koro-sensei's class was added to give more examples of how he qualified for the trope that all fit with how he was when he was introduced so it wouldn't spoil anything. Him abandoning Itona on the other hand was a twist that causes a big turn in Itona's character, while everything regarding transforming and using the "second god of death" against Koro-sensei is very late story information and spoils the return of that character (and how he relates to Koro-sensei) on top of that.

If the amount of spoiler tags needed are an issue then maybe an overall rewrite is in order? Sorry if there is also an issue with how I'm presenting this and thank you for your time.