Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Since when was 2003 Shredder cut?

He is currently in the Western animation section: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monster/WesternAnimation

At one point he was cut, with some people arguing he was just a generic bad guy, but I successfully argued he was way beyond the standard heinous line. He may be one of the most heinous villains in televised Western animation.

Anyway I think this quote could work.

edited 30th Mar '15 8:14:37 PM by Overlord

Shredder was a keep, but not without dispute IIRC.

He killed, quite literally, millions. Onscreen.

When was this? I don't think I saw that one.

That quote could work but I would cut out the first two sentences.

In the episode when Ch'rell is tried by the Utrom, they replay his crimes, of attacking other worlds where he's shown attacking civilian cities. The death tolls are given.

Okay, I cut those two sentences, is that better?

I don't think that is in his current write up, maybe we should add that in.

edited 30th Mar '15 8:27:03 PM by Overlord

That's good.

Probably should be added (and if we could do that while trimming the current entry, even better). to the quote itself BTW.

edited 31st Mar '15 12:40:13 AM by ACW

Reading World Without End, noticed

• Complete Monster: For the TV adaptation:
  • Ralph Fitzgerald, the sadistic would-be Earl of Kingsbridge, shows how cruel he is when he kills a man simply for challenging his authority in public. When a woman insults Ralph and wounds his pride, he responds by raping her and is condemned for it in court, only to escape by taking the King's pardon to fight a war in France. Ralph returns even crueler than before, taxing and working the townspeople brutally and confiscating their lands. He blackmails a woman into sleeping with him in exchange for her husband's lands but reneges on the deal anyways. He then petitions the queen when he is ousted so he may attack Kingsbridge himself, and then blackmails a woman into marrying him. Ralph leads the attack on Kingsbridge, intending to kill everyone there and tries to kill his own brother who is defending the city.
  • Brother Godwyn is a Holier Than Thou hypocrite who seeks to rise to control of the Kingsbridge priory no matter what. Godwyn blackmails his way into his position, and has his mother murder her brother so he is unopposed. He sabotages any attempt to help victims of the plague and tries to have his own cousin Caris hanged as a witch. When this fails, he later attempts to rape her and begins hanging women in the town he views as "whores." When he learns Ralph Fitzgerald is his half brother, he turns on his mother as "just a whore," and during the sack on Kingsbridge attempts to murder Caris with his bare hands.

Do they qualify?

They were proposed and approved here, yeah. Neither did in the book, though.

edited 31st Mar '15 5:33:24 AM by Lightysnake

Anyone got any good quotes or images for The Punisher? BTW, current Ch'rell writeup:

• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003): Ch'rell was an Utrom criminal who was imprisoned by his people for his various crimes. Ch'rell managed to force the transport ship he was being carried on to crash on Earth. Ch'rell escaped and took the guise of an Japanese crime boss named Oroku Saki, better known as the Shredder. Shredder wanted revenge on his people and went to great lengths to find the Utroms still on marooned Earth. Shredder attacked Splinter's master, Hamato Yoshi, believing he worked for the Utroms. After having his minions work over Yoshi with torture, Shredder personally killed Yoshi, an act that would lead to Shredder becoming the Turtles Arch-Enemy. Shredder's Foot Ninja also kidnapped innocent people and mutated them into monsters to use as slave labor to try a locate a possible Utrom base underground. Shredder has shown to be a very cruel boss. He murders one of his men who failed to deliver some stolen goods for him, due to the Turtles involvement. Shredder also would punish Baxter Stockman for his failures, by grievously injuring him, until eventually Stockman was nothing more then a Brain in a Jar. Shredder also displayed a complete disregard for human life, after an Triceraton Invasion resulted in Beijing becoming a city floating in the sky, Shredder decides to steal the anti gravity generator that is keeping the city in the air. When Karai objects noting that stealing the generator will result in the city crashing into the ground and killing millions in the process, Shredder overrules her and tells her to do it anyway. Some of Shredder's worst crime happen when Donatello visits a Bad Future where Shredder is a dictator who controls the world. Shredder has Secret Police on the streets to round up any dissenters and is using both Utrom and human slave labor (with humans having to work 18 hours a day) to build a giant teleportation device, so Shredder can conquer other planets. In this future, Shredder executes his former servant Hun, while Hun is begging to be let back into the Shredder's service.

• The episode
• Utrom Judge: Hail and peace to all sentient beings. In the name of the great lawgiver, Matthes Arles, this tribunal is now called to order. We sit in judgment over Ch'rell, for war crimes and atrocities committed throughout the galaxy. Ch'rell, also known as Torrinon, Kako Naso, Duke Acureds, Oroku Saki, and the Shredder. Prepare to face the following charges. Let it be known that as Dolphette has testified, you did willingly launch an attack, on the planet Enethone. Over one million innocent inhabitants perished. And as Wan-ran Otho has proven, you incited and funded a civil war on Eno II, in an effort to mine their raw minerals without restriction. 3.2 million perished. Finally, your crimes against the Utrom homeworld include multiple attempts to take control of the government, through an illegal and violent coup. We will now commune upon the verdict.
• The scene.

edited 31st Mar '15 5:51:11 AM by ACW

So does having supernatural excuse absolve a character of their heinousness ? Like say being possessed, loosing their sense of humanity, or in this case, spent too long under the influence of an Eldritch Abomination ? I ask because I've been thinking of Professor Pericles, of Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated (that and how the vampire protagonists of The Vampire Diaries do some pretty heinous shit when their humanity is turned off, but I can probably align that to "power/resources").

Now on to Professor Pericles

Who Is He ? What Does He Do ?

Professor Pericles is one of the series main antagonists, along with the Nibiru Enity, functioning as The Heavy. He was the animal mascot of the previous Mystery Inc. His history dates back to when he crashed into the back yard of young Ricky Owens, who nursed him back to health, and was pleased when he flew back to him. They grew together as friends, and eventually went on to form the previous Mystery Inc, along with Cassidy Williams, Brad Chiles and Judy Reeves. Over time, they investigated the old Spanish church where a monster had been sited, and speculated the monster might have led them there on purpose. Pericles was very interested when the drawing of the Planispheric Disk was discovered. They went to a site where the first Planispheric Disk piece was found, Pericles teamed up with Fred Jones, Sr. to betray the original Mystery Incorporated and find the treasure of the conquistadors. His left eye was injured when (the yet to be) Mayor Jones betrayed him. He was wrongly accused of a crime and sent to Crystal Cove's Animal Asylum. 20 years later, he is introduced to our current Mystery Inc, the Scooby gang, being something of a mysterious behind the scenes character.

Then he took center stage in season 2, where he gathered the original team together (Cassidy excluded) to search for the Entity dwelling beneath Crystal Cove, intending to merge with the enity to become all powerful. His old friend Ricky Owens, is now the head of Destroido, so Pericles uses this to conduct his own experiments (in the process apparently he killed 29 scientists in his experiments). He reveals he's nearly 80 years old and was a friend of Abigal Gluck in the 1930, and took over her underwater robot factory after her death. He also created a mutant cattle breed and set them to destroy crystal cove to give the Scooby gang no where to hide, and when Ricky starts having second thoughts on their plan, Pericles implanted mutated cobra larvae in Mr. E's spinal column in his sleep to use as a death threat against him, and often tortured him with it. As the series came to an end, he used his robots to abduct and enslave the people of crystal cove to look for the crystal sarcophagus, and even has them kill Velma's friend, Marcie. When the entity is released, he possesses Pericles, mutates his body, killing him and taking over him completely. When the entity dies, we get a cosmic retcon ending where it was released from existence and history, and thus all the other villains, Pericles including are better versions of themselves.

Redeeming Traits or a Freudian Excuse ?

Like most villains and characters on the show, they are unwitting pawns and victims of the Entity. Over the centuries, everyone coming into contact with the Entity or its influence, becomes corrupt and tainted, often with the better parts of them buried away in their subconcious. Pericles is no exception, the thing is others have gone through the same as him, and he came out the worse. The thing is when you are corrupted by the entity, it doesn't control you, you are still in full control. By the time of season 2, any redeeming qualities he had are long gone. He has something of an involuntary Heel–Face Turn via Cosmic Retcon, in the new timeline where the Entity never existed in the first place. So yes, he is absolved by the entity's death, only because in the new timeline, the entity never existed.

Heinous By The Series Standards ?

Mind you, in this same series, he as the Niburu Entity to compete with, but it's easily a matter of resources, as the Entity is Nyarlathotep 2.0, while Pericles is a mortal, but intelligent ( but still Ax-Crazy) parrot. The show is full of Knight of Cerebus villains, but Pericles is one of the worst on the series, a runner up

to Pericles. Remember, we see him after the Entity is destroyed.

Although on one hand, it felt like the timeline altered Pericles was an entirely different person, that kind of proves that his heinousness came from the influence of the Entity, and he'd have been perfectly fine without it.

Mind control, demonic possession, The Corruption, and similar circumstances generally prevent the moral agency clause from coming into play. The main exception is when the character is a willing participant in the matter, such as offering himself for possession in service of a goal that is in and of itself sufficiently heinous to qualify for Complete Monster.

edited 31st Mar '15 6:16:27 AM by Fighteer

@ Lightysnake Maybe they were approved but they are not listed on the Live-Action TV. They are not. Shouldn't they be added?

They're there.

A good example of a previously good character that fell to outside corruption but still counts as a CM is Deathwing from Warcraft. He was driven to madness by the Old Gods but nevertheless had moral agency because they never actually controlled him even during his most evil acts.

A lot of Warcraft characters qualify as willing participants in their own corruption. One supposes that the defining point is whether they thank you for killing them or remain convinced of their cause to the last.

AKA, Warcraft's "we need a boss for this instance!" tendency.

Btw, I wish to make correction. The character I called Gostun is actually named 'Hjorr.' They barely say the names of the villains in this movie and 'Gostun' was a different guy. Hehe...whoops.

Here're some writeups:

• {{Film/Northmen: A Viking Saga}}: The vicious Hjorr, second in command of The Wolf Pack under his older brother Bovarr, is a sadistic soldier who enjoys causes others pain. Hjorr's opening scene in the film is to seize a soldier Bovarr was chastising for leaving a battle alive, dragging the man to and shoving his head into an open pit of flames until he is dead. When they learn Vikings have kidnapped their patron's daughter, Hjorr comes up with the idea to simply murder her, knowing her disfavor towards the Wolf Pack and wanting to keep his employment. Hjorr informs his soldiers the King's orders are to simply murder his daughter. when the Vikings and their warrior priest try to hold off the Wolf Pack with a wall of flames, Hjorr grabs one luckless soldier and shoves him through the fire to get to them. Hjorr constantly relishes dealing as much pain to his victims as he can before killing them and even when dealt a mortal wound, spends the final moments of life trying to drag the Vikings leader to the grave with him.

For Cross Ange

• Lord Embryo, the 'Creator' of the world, was a scientist who grew tired of warfare and kidnapped the mighty dragon Aura to power the creation of a new world. Embryo creates a system where those without magic are oppressed and used as cannon fodder to kill Dragons trying to recover Aura while discarding and recreating humans when they fail to impress him. Embryo seduces many of the pilots to his side, using Salia sexually while lying how he loves her. When Ange herself refuses his advances, Embryo tortures her by forcing her mind to undergo overwhelming pain and then physical need. When Ange tries to escape, Embryo shows his true colors by taking over the mind of her faithful maid Momoka and even tries to shoot Momoka dead when she resists. Upon the final battle, Embryo simply decides to obliterate all of humanity again, coldly rebuking one of his subordinates for caring about others, and tries to sacrifice his loyal followers to buy himself time. When he is through trying to seduce Ange, Embryo tries to beat and rape her before trying to kill her for not 'accepting his love.'

edited 31st Mar '15 7:34:14 AM by Lightysnake

Okay, so does anyone else supports to cut Piet Smit? It seems like a consensus is to have him cut. I will request it soon unless someone objects.

I'll work on those two tomorrow probably. Should anything be put about how Embryo wasn't really disgusted by Julio's attempted genocide but how it was all an act (in fact, doesn't he kill Julio)? BTW, it seems he WAS in fact a Well-Intentioned Extremist who Jumped Off The Slippery Slope (big time).

edited 31st Mar '15 7:52:26 AM by ACW

Maybe in the past, yeah, but he's no longer one to say the very least. And just delete the bit after him being disgusted from Julio's entry.

So the "Embryo takes the "burden" of killing Julio from Ange as he feels she is too beautiful to stain her hands with the blood of one so impure" was just part of his Stalker with a Crush thing?