Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Krane Deakins

I think Mira Towa and Demigra from Dragon Ball Xenoverse should be cut.

here's why they were added.

Aside from the usual bad guys, the game introduces the players to the Mad Scientist Towa and her Blood Knight husband Mira, who are distorting the timelines for their own means, with no regard of the horrific outcome for the timelines they bring ruin too. Towa seems to especially find the chaos amusing, while Mira is said to only ever smile if he's fighting someone strong.

• And then there is Demigra, an insane Demon God who takes over the minds of villains and heroes alike to change the flow of time, all for his selfish goals of ruling Tokitoki as the Master of all Timelines, and reshaping them to his liking. Anyone in his way is struck down, even children, as he had Piccolo kill Trunks and Goten.

Here's why I think they should be removed.

Towa and Mira show clear affection for each other, so that's a definite redeeming quality. As for Demigra, while he doesn't have any redeeming quality, his cruelty just doesn't quite measure up when compared to the likes of Frieza or Cell. Yes, he causes more overall damage than they do, but that's because he's more POWERFUL than they are, not because he's more sadistic.

Yeah cut the Xenoverse villains. For starters they weren't brought here so we don't need any further justification for it, and seeing as the game only just came out it sounds like a knee-jerk reaction.

There is one villain that was discussed long ago and cut. Ares from God Of War. The discussion decided he was not heinous and that Kratos committed worse things and he was rightly cut. However, there is one issue that has not been considered back than that I have to bring up now. Ares is the one that turned Kratos into a monster in the first place. Kratos would never be like that if it was not for Ares (Ascension details a lot about it.) So while Kratos, arguably surpasses Ares by the GOW 3, is Ares being responsible for Kratos Start of Darkness enough to earn him CM status?

Ares is without a question, the best potential candidate for a Complete Monster. Kratos is most heinous by GOW 3 but he has redeeming qualities and gets Redemption Equals Death by the end of the story plus I repeat, Ares was responsible for his Start of Darkness, and Zeus has been corrupted by the evils from Pandora's box and he is a very dark version of Well-Intentioned Extremist. So if anyone gets a CM status, it would be Ares. Personally though, I have big reservation for qualifying anybody from the GOW series.

edited 3rd Mar '15 6:13:33 AM by holders

I'd think that if that was the case then Randy would still be a keeper.

The problem there is Ares didn't intend for Kratos to become...exactly what he did. He intended him to be a mortal warlord, crushing all in his path.

And when you look at it, Kratos does the exact same thing by having the Spartans run wild on Greece.

When the 'good guy' is just as heinous as the 'bad guys' and so is pretty much everyone else but the two girls who died before the plot started then it pretty much disqualifies anyone from being this.

It's a game where you gladly burn people alive in cages to complete puzzles, most are even set up by 'normal people'.

edited 3rd Mar '15 6:28:23 AM by Memers

• I cut the Xenoverse entries and linked here.
• When I submit Szell and Niklas tomorrow, should I also request cutting Sykes?
• Also, would anyone who knows JoJo's Bizarre Adventure please expand the following (Dio Brando's probably good enough)?
  • Cioccolata. For starters, his back-story involves him torturing old people to death while maintaining a guise of being a good Samaritan. When he starts fighting the heroes, he makes sure that he starts horribly killing the innocent people in the village just for fun. His Stand Green Day works when people are at a lower altitude than he is, so he gets on a helicopter and flies above Rome to kill as many people as possible. It says something when even the Big Bad, who would kill his own daughter to protect his identity, is disgusted by him.

edited 3rd Mar '15 7:15:06 AM by ACW

I am not saying Ares necessarily qualifies (I doubt anybody does in that game), just want to take into a consideration that Ares is the one that is responsible for all that Kratos did. I personally give to Ares as would to anyone in this game.

And yes, request to cut Sykes soon.

edited 3rd Mar '15 7:56:00 AM by holders

There's been this troper who's entry pimping A Brother's Price and whenever they mention a certain character from the book they always pothole to Complete Monster.

What's even more frustrating is they never even listed the character in question as a Complete Monster in the first place.

Should I PM them?

edited 3rd Mar '15 8:31:01 AM by TVRulezAgain

Yeah, you probably should.

Mentioning the name might also be a good idea.

The troper's name? Gowan

I'd like to discuss some things about two monsters in the film page:

1) Inspector Richard from Kiss of the Dragon: in one scene he seems to have a Pet the Dog moment when he gently strokes the hair of one of the pimps Jet Li killed and he also appears to cry. Do you think he truly considered the dead man a dear friend of his or maybe he were jus acting since in the same scene he's in front of other policemen just to gain their trust ?

2) The Jackal (Bruce Willis): while the other actions match the monster territoy, his final act of taking a girl as an hostage doesn't sound so heinous. It looks more like normal standard villainy. Moreover he also let her go without even a scratch.

edited 4th Mar '15 9:44:59 AM by ST89

That's an interesting point on Richard, and I don't remember that scene. That could well disqualify him.

And as for Jackal, if he did let her go without a scratch, that too may disqualify him.

Guys? I've been reading through all the pages I missed and, uh....what happened to Light Yagami? He was getting discussed on and on AND ON and then suddenly the subject of him vanishes. Will we ever get resolution on him?

Personally, I have reservations about qualifying Light from the manga or anime, but Movie!Light would be a definite . He crossed a HUGE line when he sacrificed his girlfriend at the end of the first film, and only got worse in the second, ending it with zero redeeming features.

My vote for Sykes would be , though I'm guessing it doesn't matter at this point.

Mcleach is definitely a since we gotta consider not just the heinous standard of the Disney Animated Canon, but the heinous standard of the Rescuers that was already set by Madame Medusa. And as was stated, Mcleach went a step further than she did by actively attempting to murder the kid he abducted. Not only that, but he makes his bloodlust and sadism very clear (hear his rendition of "Home On The Range") which suggests he's NOT poaching for profit, but for fun. He torments Cody not only by throwing knives at him but at one point pinning him against a wall with a knife, seriously risking harming the kid, and of course the whole dangling him over crocodiles bit. And his relationship with Joanna...maybe it's because it's a female lizard, but am I the only one who saw him treating her almost like he would a spouse or romantic partner? It's a weird relationship, but I think it shows that Mcleach is not just sadistic, psychotic, and murderous, but abusive as well. They went out of their way to give this villain no redeeming qualities at all. The Encyclopedia Of Disney Animated Characters said it best: "Such brute, ruthless stupidity is one of the more chilling forms of evil. And evil Mcleach most certainly is: all the knucklehead jokes at his expense in the script cannot conceal this. In some instances, when the villain gets his fatal comeuppance at the close of a Disney feature, we suddenly feel a sense of disappointment that it had to end thus. By contrast, when Mcleach vanishes into the mists of the waterfall to his death, we feel no such quasi-sympathy, instead we feel vaguely pleased that he's out of the way." He's a definite keeper.

To the argument way back when about Abridged Freeza, to him I say no, no, and no. He's most definitely a parody of a Complete Monster rather than a straight example, and I never got the sense that he was even worse than the original character. And when this is a series where so many horrifying things (like Guru's final moments) are Played for Laughs so often, the heinous standard is stacked against him regardless of how menacing Freeza is and how seriously his actions are treated.

Also, in response to what Scraggle once said:

I'd also like to note that Ghetsis I feel people demonize him way too much to be the worst character in the series. They forget the fact that villains try for the total extermination of mankind as a common goal (Purple Eyes, Cyrus, Lysandre, Matt/Courtney, hell even some of the Legendaries). I know he's been thoroughly debunked, and feel free to call me out on raising a dead point, but I just cannot get over the fact some people consider this guy pure and utter evil when he's really not much more heinous than a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

I am NOT going to reignite a debate about the G-Man himself, but I think I can explain the rationale behind some people's views. AGAIN, this is NOT about a character - it's about people IRL and their viewpoints. I think it's because of the disconnect between the means and the ends: the goal and the lengths taken in pursuit of it. When someone has the end goal like the extermination of life (though I will point out that Cyrus at the very least had the main goal of re-creating mankind and all life as a God: destruction was a means to that), it's something of a given that they're going to go to extreme lengths to accomplish this. When someone has the end goal of self gain (and not just that in the G-Man's case - he was going to become the Pokemon-wielding oppressive dictator of the entire world), it thus becomes more despicable when the villain resorts to lengths such as brainwashing, mentally and emotionally abusing, manipulating, and ultimately discarding their own kid, manipulating hearts and minds through public sermons, taking civilizations and buildings hostage, abusing and torturing people and Pokemon, and putting half a continent on ice in order to extort control from the leaders all to accomplish something so petty. We've actually seen it with genuine CM examples like Charon in DPA and Hunter J in the anime, who were both featured in stories that also included Cyrus and his goal to destroy and reshape the universe. It's not about the heinous level (which, according to majority vote, G-Man falls short of), it's about just how evil a person would have to be in order to sink to these lows just for something that's not all that grandiose and not beneficial to anyone or anything but that person's own self. (Plus, considering you had a vote for Sykes, as did I, for being a Faux Affably Evil sociopath who'd sink to dark depths to get what he wanted, I don't see how or why you could look down on Pokemon fans in this matter.)

edited 3rd Mar '15 10:54:50 AM by ANewMan

And....I'M BACK, I'm fucking BACK!

What do I owe you guys?

• The Town That Dreaded Sundown: In the 2014 sequel/remake, we have the two Phantom Killers: Deputy Foster and Corey Holland. Seeking to emulate the infamous real-life Phantom Killer of Texarkana, the two fake Corey's death as the first victim by murdering a drifter and substituting his body for Corey's. The two then proceed to butcher a returning soldier and his girlfriend, followed by slaughtering two young band members. One is killed by a bayonet tied to a trombone as the killer plays it. Growing bolder, the two murder a member of the police force and a woman he picked up for the night before focusing on Corey's old girlfriend Jami. They kidnap and murder Jami's current lover Nick, gun down her grandmother and a store clerk before capturing Jami herself. Corey reveals his motivation is to simply be someone 'important' and not just another nobody from Texarkana, moments before Foster shoots him in the head with intent on framing him for everything before trying to kill Jami.

• Dead Snow: Standartenführer (Oberst) Herzog is a literal Nazi Zombie who occupied and brutalized a town in Norway. Once the people had enough, they drove Herzog into the snows before he could complete his orders to destroy the town where he and his soldiers froze to death. After death, Herzog becomes a powerful undead being who kills any who come for the gold he commands. When he manages to leave the mountain, Herzog uses his men to slaughter all in their path and raises them as new zombies to fill his undead army. Herzog sets his sights upon the nearby town with intent to destroy it, aiming at completing all the aims of the Third Reich in undeath. Herzog shows through a massive bodycount of men, women and children that death does nothing to diminish the monstrosity of a devoted Nazi.

• The Grim Company: The brutal barbarian chieftain Kraka One-Eye is known as the best fighter and most evil man of the northern clans. When the warrior known as the Sword of the North disobeyed their leader, The Shaman, Krazka brutally raped his wife and sent her to be burned alive as punishment. In present, Krazka attacks a chieftain who has stopped paying tribute due to famine, humiliates him in a fight after killing his wife as 'motivation' and sends him back to be burned alive. Krazka then has every civilian in the walls massacred. Allying with a demon called The Herald, Krazka allows demons to be called forth to slaughter all in their path with his forces becoming infamous for war crimes. Overthrowing the king of the north, Krazka tortures him and keeps him alive as a trophy. Finally, Krazka buys the Herald's cooperation via gathering children to be sacrificed to its hunger, caring for nothing but his own power and domination.

• Death Note: Once a self-righteous schoolboy, Light Yagami proves that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Upon getting his hands on the Death Note, Light begins using it to kill criminals all over the world and eventually declares his designs of becoming its god. When a man denounces his actions as evil on TV, Light furiously kills him on the spot. When FBI agents come to Japan to track him down, Light tricks one into killing the others with the Death Note, ending by killing the man as well. He later uses the Death Note to drive his fiancee Naomi Misora to suicide when she gets too close to the truth, gloating over her fear and despair in her final moments. In a Memory Gambit, Light has the Death Note given to someone he knows will use it for selfish and evil purposes so Light can pull off a plan to finally kill his rival L. Light slowly removes all obstacles from his path, killing whomever he deems as unfit for his new world with full intent to begin murdering those he considers 'lazy' or not using their true potential. When his sister is kidnapped by one of L's students Mello, Light even considers murdering her before deciding it'd draw too much scrutiny to him, using his own father as a pawn in a plan to kill Mello and later having his devoted girlfriend Kiyomi Takeda kill Mello before using the Death Note to force her to burn herself alive. When confronted, Light attempts to justify himself before his reasoning is brutally deconstructed and he is declared to be "a crazy mass murderer. Nothing more and nothing less." In his final moments, Light is reduced to screaming hysterics, almost begging the Shinigami Ryuk to kill everyone in the room.

edited 3rd Mar '15 11:02:04 AM by Lightysnake

Welcome back
Check my sig
Is Light a confirmed (and is there any way to trim that?)?

You know my feelings about entries being complete summaries of the work they're from. I'll attempt a rewrite once I get out of class.

If we're getting a writeup on Light, shouldn't the fact that he's, y'know, the series protagonist be mentioned?

Also, are we doing this for all versions, or just one or the other? Since again, I'm on the fence about manga or (especially) anime Light qualifying.

Honestly, these Complete Monster entries need to be less comprehensive. We don't need a whole list of misdeeds; just the ones necessary to demonstrate that the characters fit the heinous standard. And of course, the explanations regarding the other points of the trope.

• Dead Snow duology: In these horror-comedies, Standartenführer (Oberst) Herzog is a literal Nazi Zombie who occupied and brutalized a town in Norway. Once the people had enough, they drove Herzog into the snows where he and his soldiers froze to death. After death, Herzog becomes a powerful undead being who kills any who come for the gold he commands. When he manages to leave the mountain, Herzog uses his men to slaughter all in their path and raises them as new zombies to fill his undead army. Herzog sets his sights upon the nearby town, intending to destroy it, aiming at completing all the aims of the Third Reich in undeath. Herzog shows through a massive bodycount of men, women and children that death does nothing to diminish the monstrosity of a devoted Nazi.
• Marathon Man: Christian Szell, aka The White Angel (because of his hair), was a Nazi dentist working at Auschwitz, and used to falsely promise protection to the Jewish prisoners in exchange of their gold hidden in their teeth, before sending them to the gas chambers. After escaping World War II, Szell sells most of his Nazi comrades to a shadow government agency in exchange for protection and assistance in his diamonds smuggling (the ones he stole from the Jews). When he goes to New York to claim a box of diamonds he becomes increasingly paranoid for his safety starting to kill Henry "Doc" Levy, one of his collaborators, believing him to be a traitor. He then kidnaps Doc’s brother Thomas "Babe" Levy and, wanting to know "Is it safe," cruelly tortures him with his dental instruments, first digging a hole in his cavity and then drilling a healthy tooth "until (he) reach(es) the pulp", all the while maintaining a friendly attitude. After he convinces himself Babe doesn't know anything, he orders him to be killed anyway. He later uses a retractable knife to slash the throat of a Holocaust survivor who recognizes him.
• Sint: In this Dutch horror-comedy, St. Niklas in life was an evil bishop, and the leader of a gang of criminals that ransacked a village every December 5. After being killed by the rebelling villagers, Niklas and his gang return as zombies and skeletons every full moon on the evening of December 5, and proceed to go on a murderous rampage. Throughout the film, Niklas commits many murders, with his worst offenses including burning down a children's hospital (killing 35 children in the process) and sending a school bus into the river to drown all the children. Vile and cruel, Niklas is a great demonization of a holy holiday figure.
• The Town That Dreaded Sundown: In the 2014 sequel/remake, we have the two Phantom Killers: Deputy Foster and Corey Holland. Seeking to emulate the infamous real-life Phantom Killer of Texarkana, the two fake Corey's death as the first victim by murdering a drifter and substituting his body. The two then proceed to butcher a returning soldier and his girlfriend, followed by slaughtering two young band members. One is killed by a bayonet tied to a trombone as the killer plays it. Growing bolder, the two murder a member of the police force and a woman he picked up for the night before focusing on Corey's old girlfriend Jami. They kidnap and murder Jami's current lover Nick, gun down her grandmother and a store clerk before capturing Jami herself. Corey reveals his motivation is to simply be someone "important" and not just another nobody from Texarkana, moments before the other killer (a grandson of a forgotten victim of the original Phantom) shoots him in the head with intent on framing him for everything before trying to kill Jami.
• The Grim Company, by Luke Scull: The brutal barbarian chieftain Krazka One-Eye is known as the best fighter and the most evil man of the northern clans. When the warrior known as the Sword of the North disobeyed their leader, The Shaman, Krazka brutally raped his wife and sent her to be burned alive as punishment. In present, Krazka attacks a chieftain who has stopped paying tribute due to famine, humiliates him in a fight after killing his wife as "motivation" and sends him back to be burned alive. Krazka then has every civilian in the walls massacred. Allying with a demon called The Herald, Krazka allows demons to be called forth to slaughter all in their path with his forces becoming infamous for war crimes. Overthrowing the king of the north, Krazka tortures him and keeps him alive as a trophy. Finally, Krazka buys the Herald's cooperation via gathering children to be sacrificed to its hunger, caring for nothing but his own power and domination.

edited 4th Mar '15 10:00:17 PM by ACW

I know she's already a no, but I just wanted to say Morgan Fey genuinely loves her youngest daughter. As abusive as she is, she genuinely cared about Pearl as she thought she was the only one suitable to be master of the Kurain Channeling Technique, and she says in Justice For All case 2 that Pearl is her most prized treasure. This is in case she gets brought up again, what with her being responsible for two murders, and Maya being accused for both.

edited 3rd Mar '15 11:18:51 AM by Klavice

I thought it necessary to get his worst deeds in there. It's for Manga light only, and one can wrap 'Villain Protagonist' in the front.

Light was pretty firmly voted up this time, with the previous votes tallied as well.

I...don't quite understand why you felt the need to bring that up.

edited 3rd Mar '15 11:21:27 AM by Lightysnake