Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Yeah, definite for the Grundel.

I never did an effortpost before. >_<

Here's the La Maisen's actual crimes;

• Lures the victims in with an nice old lady shtick.
• Drains their souls(which is more than almost any villain does. This actually makes them cease to exist, as ghosts/souls are blatantly confirmed to exist, meaning this is far worse than just a simple killing since at least they can move on. This is made clear as an element in the series, mind you)
• Tortures their souls as well.

This is why I think "she" could apply. The crimes are almost entirely shown onscreen(she doesn't directly show the torture, just the aftermath of it, but does show the draining and the other one is literally a key element to how she gets her victims). She's clearly sentient. The only thing I am unsure of is how she came to be. Is she just a made of evil creature? However, there is nothing to imply this to be the case either. She appears to have morals. Note that a decent amount of enemies do not show moral agency in this series, and some just don't have the heinous factor regardless. And some do show morals(although way less than in the first series, heh).

Zygon seems like Ultron. As long as he's not a Generic Doomsday Villain, I see no reason he wouldn't count. I'll vote .
I'll tweak Rimmer today or tomorrow.

edited 16th Dec '14 2:47:18 AM by ACW

After some consideration, II think I will vote for La Maisen. I am considering the Grundel, howeve, I must know two things: 1: is he capable of moral agency and not Made of Evil? 2: Is he blatently confirmed to be the original and not another child transformed?

Edit: PS: The Ace Attorney wiki states that Von Karma was friends with someone named Ernest Armano, is this true because C Ms cannot have friends.

edited 16th Dec '14 4:43:03 AM by bobg

1) Absolutely. He's malicious and doing it just for fun as proven in EGB. He knew that releasing him would allow him to cause more issue, and tricked one of the characters into doing it. He just didn't realize he could be defeated and his power undone.

2) Zero implications either way. Rarely are any Ghost/etc. a force of nature, and they always make it clear. It's vague otherwise.

If it's shown torturing the souls it imprisons then for La Maison as well, and I see no problem in keeping the Grundle.

Rimmer would go at the top of the Shannara tree, right?

• The Heritage of Shannara: Most of the Shadowen are bad, but their leader, Rimmer Dall, is in a class of his own. From his position as The Federation's First Seeker, Dall enforces the state's xenophobic, expansionist policies, enslaving the Dwarves, suppressing resistance, and arresting magic-users, whom he drains of their magics and then, should they survive, throws into The Pit. When Quickening gives the Dwarves hope by healing the Meade Gardens, he sends Pe Ell to assassinate her. When the Elves return to the Four Lands, Dall dispatches the Creepers to wage a war of extermination against them. He personally tries to murder Walker Boh and Cogline, then sends the Four Horsemen after them, resulting in Cogline's death. He plays a long psychological game with Par and Coll Ohmsford, aimed at shattering Par's mind and making him susceptible to a Grand Theft Me. Dall’s crowning achievement, however, was the construction of Southwatch, a living tower that drained the life from the world itself, and would have, if left unchecked, resulted in the Four Lands becoming an apocalyptic wasteland, inhabited by nothing save a few, maddened Shadowen. Concerned only with his personal power and desire to feed on the strongest magics available, Rimmer Dall wreaked more devastation on the Four Lands than any villain before or since, inflicting damage that has taken centuries to even begin recovering from.

edited 16th Dec '14 11:44:20 AM by ACW

Just watched Starchaser, and Zygon, prone to the usual Evil Overlord stupidity though he may be, goes just far enough beyond standard villainy for me to vote .

edited 16th Dec '14 1:25:06 PM by LordXavius

Zygon

I just watched the two episodes with The Grundel. He is indeed the original and not another child transformed. In the EGB episode, it is stated that after his capture, all the other grundels turned back into children. He also refers to himself as the Grundel. That being said, I am not entirely sure he's heinouess enough. he's certainly frightening for a villain from a show made for children, however, apart from the incident in the gym, he did not really stand out in any way to me. His mass ruination of children's lives is deffinately nasty, but I am afraid that it could be a case of Offstage Villainy since we only see him targeting two kids in his first appearance, and one in his second. Overall I have mixed feelings about him. Frightening villain? Most certainly. CM? Unsure.

But that's how the Grundel's powers work, it can't corrupt a thousand children in a the blink of eye, it actually takes a lot of work and effort, they don't really have time to show the Grundel corrupting several children if it often takes several weeks to corrupt just one. Also I think that is done intentionally, the Grundel is an allegory for the type of adult children should avoid, so they give him very low level powers and have a lot of menace come from his manipulatively abilities, where he convinces children to reject their loved ones and see him as their only friend, rather then being scary because of flashy powers. He also targets more then 3 children, there was a kid at the beginning of the Real Ghostbusters that got arrested, Lee, Alec and in Extreme Ghostbusters he targets Kylie as a kid, Jack, Roland's little brother and Jack as a Grundel targets several children (which is the Grundel's fault). Sure Jack Grundel didn't really succeed with any of the children he tried to corrupt, but hey, he still tried.

I think for his power level the Grundel is pretty nasty, he tried to corrupt several children and ruin their lives, tried to endanger a bunch of children at the gym, prevented Vankman from saving Alec and Lee when they rejected the Grudnel's influence, put Jack as a child in a cocoon for 10 years until he hatched and became another Grundel and taunted Kylie with the fate of her childhood friend and then tried to murder her for kicks. That is a fairly long rap sheet for not so powerful evil spirit. I certainly find me the most loathesome villain in Real Ghostbusters, far more scary then the Generic Doomsday Villain types that can appear on that show.

I think the Boogieman is an example from Ghostbusters of a villain who targets children, but is not quite evil enough to be a monster, considering he is a demon who gains power from fear and uses his frightening looks to scare children, but only seems to want to physically harm as a child as a last resort. He is unpleasant, but doesn't promote enough active harm.

edited 16th Dec '14 6:10:30 PM by TheOverlord

Did we ever reach a conclusion for Vladimir Sharkovsky from Alex Rider?

edited 16th Dec '14 7:03:16 PM by randomtroper89

I think it was a yea. Seems we keep Grundel, I can live with that. I have another proposal for now:

Thre Bodydnatching alien, to be referred to here by the name of its common host Karien hereafter, from the horror-sci fi comic miniseries Caliban by Garth Ennis himself.

Caliban begins on a mining ship called The Caliban, who have noticed something strange in a seemingly barren tract of space. One disaster later and another ship comes out of warp, blending right into the Caliban itself, killing several crewman and trapping the ship.

The crew realize they're looking at a genuine alien craft, something the human race has never even conceived of before. This is potentially the single greatest find in human history. The crew begins to explore the craft, finding chambers filled with a variety of new alien species. All dead.

Now, the ship's navigation officer, Karien, separated from the others, discovers the corpse of one of the ship's orignal crew...which falls to dust...and something possesses him.

Now, the unnamed being possessing Karien is our CM. To describe it:

The alien ship visited a world that was...devoid of life, and one of the explorers was possessed. On the alien vessel, it began to murder the crew until they subdued the host...the host died, and the alien jumped into a surgeon, who slaughtered the rest of the crew. The survivors took the ship into warp and shut down life support, sacrificing themselves in hope the being would remain trapped with nothing to possess.

Here's the kicker: this thing is not mindless. It is very sentient, and very malicious. Its ultimate goal is to get to earth (after plundering Karien's memories) so it can take it over, having an endless supply of bodies and slaves, and a world to rule.

Once in Karien's body, the bodysnatcher begins torturing and killing crewmembers for the purpose of testing its new body's physiological limits (and then using stimulants and alien biotech to boost the body far beyond human capacity). Enjoyment plays a factor, too: the alien is likened to playing with victims as a cat might with a mouse. Eventually, it slaughters the crew so only two are left: Engineer Sanchita Malik and Systems Officer Nomi Delong.

Nomi puts it best herself "It's intelligent. It FEELS. It just doesn't give a shit about others." San then responds "What slaveowner does?"

The alien wounds San after boosting Karien's body and fusing a variety of alien parts to it. It plans to force San to get it en route back to earth, then take her body with Karien's own body not lasting much longer. San, however, takes multiple stimulants to enhance herself beyond any human capacity and fights back to get Nomi to safety, pushing her into an escape body and sending her out before rigging the Caliban to go nuclear. San kills 'Karien' having the alien jump into her body, before revealing she's taken enough stimulants to OD. San mentally informs the alien the ship is about to go nuclear and kill both. "In the meantime, you wait where you belong: alone in a hall of dead things."

Now, I need stress this creature is not conformed to its species or devoid of feeling. Multiple times it is named as simply a tyrannical sadist and that it is intelligent, like any human, but just fails to care about anyone. It has an enormous bodycount, with its slaughter of the aliens of the ship shown in detail in a flashback (who were benevolent and well meaning creatures who hardly deserved this) and multiple crewmembers of Caliban. It tortures at least two to death and its ultimate plan to make every living being it can into its slave.

Easy keep, says I

@ACW

Yes. It'd go Rimmer Dall, The Morgawr, Cree Bega, and Mischa.

Yes on that.

Karien

to the body-snatching alien.

I'll third that

@Lightysnake:

Also, Cakeman: Can you provide more detail on Yolanda Yewbeam? Do a full effortpost?

Ah, another Ennis CM.

Sharkovsky: I can't even find an effort post, neither through Google nor the search here.

edited 17th Dec '14 3:12:34 AM by ACW

for the bodysnatcher.

to the alien.

Also have a new nominee from the horror film Hills Run Red, Wilson Concannon.

Who Is He and What Has He Done ?

Prior to the movie, Wilson Concannon is the director of the Film Within a Film of the same name. The movie was almost immediately whipped from existence and Concannon himself disappeared from the map. It turns out that Concannon was unsatisfied with the work of his actors so he dawned the costume for the killer Babyface, and simply had his thirteen year old daughter Alexa film has he murdered the cast. Around this time he also raped Alexa and knocked her up. He would lock up their resulting son, who would later cut off his own face and wear the babyface mask. Since then, the new Babyface would become a protector of his family and Alexa, an aspiring snuff artist while Concannon hide from the public for obvious reasons. In the film proper, the main character Tyler becomes obsessed with finding the film and meets Alexa, now a stripper. She invites him and her friends to her fathers house in the woods, it is there Babyface ends up raping Tyler's girlfriend, while Alexa tortures his friend Lao. Tyler meets Concannon himself who confesses to all of his crimes to Tyler. He takes Tyler into a barn where Alexa is torturing Lao. Concannon tells Alexa that there is only one director in the family and shoots her. Babyface is enraged at the apparent death of his mother/half sister and begins to fight Concannon, and Tyler encourages Babyface to kill Concannon - which he does. Despite Concannon getting what he deserves, and Babyface's later death, the film ends on a downer note with Alexa placing Tyler in a theatre of corpses and watching the original snuff film her father made, turning Tyler insane and Alexa keeping Tyler's now pregnant girlfriend hostage.

Any Redeeming Qualities of Freudian Excuse ?

Zip. Zero. Notta. If you are wondering if he's heinous enough, well this is among one of the darkest slasher films I know off, and there are two other villains in the film - Babyface and Alexa, who are both off the deep end, but it helps that their actions are pretty much a proxy of Concannon's action. Now before you ask if he loves his family, remember he raped his daughter and would later try to kill her, and when he confesses to it, he uses a bullshit excuse that his wife recently died and the rape was out of grief - what makes it a bullshit excuse is the way he says it, in a Oh, like you wouldn't have done that tone of voice. He's pretty much the instigator of the films events. If there is an issue on Offscreen Villainy, keep in mind, we do see the snuff film of his killings of his actors, including using chains to pull a girl apart and dancing with another girls corpse, and the rape of his daughter is offscreen, but I think Babyface's existence is amicable as evidence.

I'll give a
Which writeup for IT? Original is first.:

edited 17th Dec '14 6:10:11 AM by ACW

I like the second Pennywise writeup.

Now I'd condense Markos writeup, the thing is, it revealed information that the original didn't have, and the last time I tried to condense it, it didn't work too well. So we're gonna have to think this through.

I like the second writeup too.
As for Markos, I may take a look at it this weekend (we don't need every single action though).

Alright, as I've said in advance a few days ago I've now put through the requests to cut Nurse Ratched and to index Star Trek.

for Bushwick Bill and Scarface, for Baron Frederick, definite to Piper and the bodysnatcher, to Zygon/Nexus. I'll abstain on Grundel, but I'm leaning for Le Maison due to the general ambiguity on its nature. to Concannon as well, who sounds nasty even for the genre.

Any thoughts on my suggestions for keeping/cutting the examples in this list?

I've also made a small tweak to Fouchon's write-up, since it still sounded like his objection with selecting the family man was on moral grounds when it was just pragmatism.

• Hard Target: Emil Fouchon is a libertarian madman who runs a hunting ring that aims to break what he describes as the government's monopoly on murder. Using a man named Randal Po to recruit homeless veterans, Fouchon and his Dragon, Pik Van Cleaf, offer them thousands of dollars if they can survive being hunted by Fouchon's clients—an offer Fouchon has no intention of fulfilling. During the film's opening scenes, Fouchon, Van Cleaf and their client (with help from a team of bikers and huntsmen) run down and murder Douglas Binder. Douglas' daughter, Natasha, comes looking for him in alliance with veteran Chance Boudreaux. Fouchon has Randal beaten and mutilated for selecting a man with a family because of the attention that it will bring, then chooses Chance's friend Elijah Roper as the target of the next hunt. When the client proves unwilling to finish Elijah, Fouchon kills the client, then has Van Cleaf gun down Elijah in the street. Deciding to move to the next town, Fouchon has Van Cleaf kill both Randal and the coroner they were paying to fake causes of death. When Chance and Natasha get involved, Fouchon decides that they have to die as well and brings in a number of clients who owe him favours. When Chance uses a rattlesnake to poison one of these men, Fouchon stomps him to death while ranting about how he should "die quieter." When Chance's uncle sets another of his men on fire, Fouchon kills the man himself. As the film approaches its climax, Fouchon, with all of his men dead, stabs Chance's uncle with an arrow, takes Natasha hostage, and finally tries to beat Chance to death with a burning two-by-four.