These are what we call the 'YMMV items.' Things that some people find in this work. We call them 'your mileage might vary' because not everyone sees these things in the same way. This starts discussions in the trope lists, a thing we don't want. Please use the discussion page if you'd like to discuss any of these items.
"D'you see that sword? Did you know that it has the power to make pretty hare maidens happy?"
The very same book also had this comment, after Log-a-Log shot an arrow into Skaup's paw. There's nothing weird about it, except the comment was "ribald." Look up the word ribald. Now read this comment and you'll find it to be strange...
"Be sure t'bring that arrow with ye, 'twas a good shaft!"
Much less funny version during Mariel's capture scene; the searats grab her, call her "pretty", and then do something which she can't even describe because it causes a panic attack. Context suggests they were throwing her friends overboard since one makes a remark about "feeding the fishes", but certain readers have wondered if that line may be, excuse pun, a red herring.
The Redwallers in Outcast of Redwall, especially Bella. Did they really care about Veil, but got tired of his naughty behavior, or were they all Bitches in Sheep's Clothing who pretended to like and accept Veil, but secretly treated him with indifference behind his back? None of this is helped by the fact that Bella intentionally named the ferret Veil because it was an anagram for "evil" and "vile."
Bryony. Did she really love Veil as though he were her own son, or was she so excited with taking care of him that pretending to be his mother was just a playful game to her—a game she became obsessed over, because she was determined to prove the Redwallers wrong and that Veil really was capable of being good? Also, her reaction to his death. Did she really believe that there wasn't a shred of kindness or good inside of him, or was she so traumatized by his death, and so tired of the Redwallers telling her "I told you so" that she forced herself to agree with them, despite know deep down in her heart that she was right all along and he did have good in him?
Angst? What Angst??: The death thing might be a case of Deliberate Values Dissonance: the death rate in Mossflower is much, much higher than in 21st-century Western Real World societies, so they get used to it quickly, and while they don't seem to have a God as such they're a lot more certain of an afterlife than many people here are.
One season old babes get in fights and kill other beasts. Young teenagers watch close friends die, sometimes in very horrible ways. Salamandastron is a particularly fun case: Samkim stumbles upon a dead Brother Hal, then is accused of murdering him, and just days later sees several shrews and Spriggat partially eaten by a giant snake. On the Western Shore, a surly teenager is almost eaten alive by reptiles after seeing that her adoptive father is about to be attacked by a military force that vastly outmatches him. To the north, a young otter and a Dibbun are attacked by crows who'd quite like to eat them alive, and is so vastly outnumbered that the next charge will doom him. Back at the Abbey, everyone is dying of the plague. No angst!
Dauncey's death in Rakkety Tamm and Asio's death in Eulalia! segway immediately into what's for lunch that day. Asio's is especially jarring. Also, Sister Atrata's death. All but two characters seemed to forget she even existed after she died, and were relatively unscathed.
Many fights between the protagonist and the Big Bad are a Curb-Stomp Battle. It is far easier to list the major villains who weren't this and put up a good fight or managed to take someone with them in the final battle: Cluny the Scourge, Queen Tsarmina, Ferahgo the Assassin, Ungatt Trunn, Gulo the Savage, Zwilt the Shade, and a couple of vipers. Everyone else were only dangerous as army commanders at best.
The Veil Sixclaw subplot from Outcast of Redwall goes well out of its way to tell us over and over again that if you're "born" evil, there is little to no hope for redemption, and you don't have a shred of kindness in your heart. Even if you sacrifice your life to save someone you love. This is especially jarring, because The Bellmaker, the book that came out before this one, proved that you can be evil, realize how awful being evil is, have a Heel-Face Turn, and be forgiven for every bad thing you've done in your past.
High Rhulain constantly keeps reminding us with Tiria that you shouldn't discriminate against women, and that any female can do the same things a male can do. Clearly Brian Jacques forgot that he already tried to show that with the dozens and dozens of other femaleBadass heroes (and villains, for that matter) this series has to offer.
Some of the Big Damn Heroes moments. One of the biggest ones occurs in Marlfox when Song and Mighty Megraw save Burble, Dann and Dippler from bloodthirsty reptiles. What makes it an ass pull is that somehow, Song found her long lost grandfather and her long lost aunt AND it turns out that her grandfather had raised a small group of hedgehog warriors who managed to kill all the reptiles. AND they all managed to find and practically patch up the Swallow, even though it almost split in two after plunging down the waterfall. This all happened in about a day by the way.
Veil's death in Outcast, which came out of nowhere. It seemed like that was thrown in there just...because. And it falls into Fridge Logic, since VeilTook The Spear for somebeast he had no problem trapping inside of a cave and leaving to die just a few chapters earlier, and he definitely did not show a change in attitude between then and his Heroic Sacrifice.
Veil Sixclaw from Outcast, so very much. Some people sympathize with him because he's a Jerkass Woobie with a tragic backstory who always falls victim to Fantastic Racism by the Redwallers. Others don't give a shit, thought he had an unjustified Freudian Excuse, and considered his subplot to be an absolute waste. Some would even go as far as saying he ruined the entire book.
Felldoh. On one hand, he took the Leeroy Jenkins route and his actions resulted in the exact opposite of what he wanted to do. But on the other hand, he's badass, courageous, and had the balls to attack Badrang by himself and humiliate him in front of his entire army by whipping him like a slave. If Badrang wasn't a stinking coward, summoning his goons to protect him, Felldoh would have no doubt killed him. And unlike Martin, Felldoh didn't waste his time dealing with a bunch of Wacky Wayside Tribes. Killing Druwp certainly helped in his favors as well.
Color-Coded for Your Convenience: Things that are red (the Goreleech, Veil's paws) are evil. Things that're rosy-pink (Redwall, the Arfship) are good. Generally speaking- it's not always the case but it seems like a running trend.
Creepy Awesome: Shadow from Redwall and Zwilt the Shade from The Sable Quean Farran the Poisoner from Salamandastron could probably count, except the fact he had no actual dialogue or character development, he ended up "just creepy"
Complete Monster: Now with its own page. The series has THAT MANY. Brian Jacques has gone on record as saying that he likes his villains evil beyond redemption. He wants the audience cheering when they get their just desserts, not conflicted.
Crowning Moment of Heartwarming: Everything involving Blaggut. Also any scene with Dibbuns doing something cute or mischievous, or name any romantic couple (That doesn't end in death) "Broggle and Fwirl" in particular, (Broggle being so completely shy and Adorkable, Fwirl being completely innocent to abbeylife) Gonff and Byrony, Tammo and Pasque. Even Dann and Song, or Dandin and Mariel. (Neither last two couples are confirmed to have fallen in love, but Word of God says it's the readers' decisions)
Designated Villain: Generally speaking, anything that hunts the Always Lawful Good characters is treated as a villain for that reason. Any sympathy or respect towards a creature's right to live tends to end at the "It eats us!" line, and there is no way a member of the typical victim species will perceive something like Asmodeus as anything short of pure evil. However, in the context of Redwall this comes as a bit of hypocrisy on the author's (and in a couple of cases even the characters') part, when similar unapologetic sapient-eaters (Stonehead, Aluco, etc) are treated as good friends, as long as they target vermin or reptiles.
Zassaliss, Harssacss, and Sesstra, the adder triplets from Triss. Their mother was murdered right in front of them when they were young, a mace and chain cuts into their tails and binds them together, and they've still managed to survive by learning to hunt as a unit. They're treated as monsters and their death is mocked simply because...they eat woodlanders.
Draco in Leather Pants: Veil gets a lot of this due to his more or less Taking the Bullet for Bryony. The various bad things he did (attempted murder, robbery, trapping Bryony and Togget in a cave earlier) tend to be forgotten.
Notice how often Blaggut from The Bellmaker has been mentioned? He wormed his way into the hearts of readers for being one of the few vermin to do a full Heel-Face Turn and Earning His Happy Ending in doing do.
Martin is The Woobie of all woobies. To start off, when he was only a babe, his mother, Sayna, was killed by Vilu Daskar for shits and giggles. A few years later, Luke left his son in the paws of Windred, Martin's grandmother, so Luke could go kill Daskar. Even though Martin wanted to go along, Luke told him to stay behind, promising he'd return (and we all know how that turnedout). Later on, Martin and Windred get captured by Badrang and his tyrants (again, for shits and giggles) and during the trip to Fort Marshank, Windred dies. Martin spent several seasons as a slave to Badrang and his tyrants, until one day he managed to get free and slowly develop feelings towards a mouse named Rose. Eventually, the two gather up an army of their own and assault Fort Marshank, but just when Martin is about to kill Badrang, Badrang kills Rose, and he is quickly killed by Martin. Afterwards, Martin went through a Heroic BSOD and stayed silent for several days; the only time he even bothered walking was so he could head into the forest to go cry. And then, Martin decides to leave all his friends behind, and to never mention them, Rose, or her home Noonvale so he can keep their memories and happiness locked away in his heart. After that he roams the land, until one winter, he's captured by Tsarmina's forces, has his sword snapped in half, and is then promptly held prisoner for the entire season. And if it hadn't been for Gonff showing up, Martin would've died....Talk about Break the Cutie...
Urthstripe the Strong's life isn't happy. Unlike Martin, both of his parents were killed before he could even speak. He's abandoned during the winter, somehow gets separated from his brother, and is forced to grow up fending for himself. He ends up becoming ruler of Salamandastron, but he and his daughter Mara don't see eye to eye. Eventually, she leaves the mountain...just when Ferahgo and his army attacks. Towards the end of the novel, Urthstripe pulls one of the most epic Heroic Sacrifices of all time. Unfortunately, he dies right when he finds his long-lost brother...and just when Mara was about to reconcile with her father.
It seems likely the target audience merely changed to a group a few years younger. This would explain why there's a good number of people who call themselves "former Redwall fans who still like the older books". Right around Lord Brocktree, the target audience age stayed the same and you grew out of it old enough to notice the Fridge Logic.
Marty Stu: Martin. No, not that Martin, Mattimeo's son from Pearls of Lutra. Martin, his father Luke, Matthias, and Mattimeo all went through Character Development and/or suffered some kind of tragedy (one of which turned Martin into a Broken Ace). Mattimeo's son, on the other hand, was just born perfect.
At the very end of Triss, the main characters set off in a ship named Freedom to free an island of slaves. Alright, fair enough. They arrive, charge into battle yelling "Freedom!" as their war cry, get the slaves shouting it out as well, and celebrate their victory by hoisting it up on a giant banner. Then, for no apparent reason, an orphaned baby mouse is discovered in the cells. They call him Freedom.
In Outcast, after Veil's attempted murder of Friar Bunfold, the Redwallers keep repeating, "Nothing like this has ever happened here before!" again and again, until it becomes funny. That phrase, or variations of it, is used three or four times in a span of ten pages.
Paranoia Fuel: In Loamhedge, Martin's spirit tells Martha that Bragoon and Saro need to head to Loamhedge in order to find something that'll make her walk again. In Part 3 of the book, Martha learns to walk on her own and Bragoon and Saro end up sacrificing their lives, which implies that Martin had Bragoon and Saro sent on a suicide mission. Makes you wonder now, don't it?
Periphery Demographic: During the prime of the series, a significant percentage of its fans were high school and college age, where the intended demographic was much younger.
See the Fleetscut section below to see how he saved himself.
Horty zigzagged this trope constantly. Everytime he got out the heap, he threw himself back in with his whining. But by the end of Loamhedge, he finally gets (and stays) out of the heap when he and Bragoon take on several of Kharanjul's horde back to back.
Tubgutt. He constantly picked on Mara and Pikkle and even tried to rebel against Log-a-Log. However, after Mara saved him from The Deepcoiler, Tubgutt Took a Level in Kindness and helped them on their quest.
Viola, who started out being a whiny tattle-tale, but later Took a Level in Badass and willingly joined Martin and his crew to save Abbot Durral.
Fleetscut was leaning towards becoming one with his constant whining about his hunger and being nothing but The Load to Jukka's tribe. He saved himself when he gave a well-deserved "The Reason You Suck" Speech to Jukka, and from that point on he only got better.
Gruven. Even in-universe, everybody hates this joker. He's a dimwitted coward who is bad at everything, but his mother instills a sense of entitlement in him, pushing him to lead the tribe. It doesn't help that his main competition is Sawney Rath, perhaps one of the most amusingly Genre Savvy villains in Redwall history.
Jeg. You know that annoying kid you've ran into that you just wanna spank really hard, but can't because he or she will go whining to his or her parents? Picture that same kid as a smelly rat who likes to whack animals with a stick, and you've got Jeg.
Tugga Bruster, your everyday Jerkass. You know you're a Scrappy if your own son doesn't miss you and wants to forget you ever existed after you die.
Uggo Wiltud, although he was more of an in-universe example. At first he starts out as the protagonist in The Rogue Crew who starts to go through Character Development. And then halfway through he becomes the Deuteragonist. And then he stops developing entirely and becomes The Load; at some point his sole purpose in the story was to annoy everyone he ran into except Posybud. Which, inevitably, annoyed some of the readers.
Along with Nightmare Fuel and Gorn, some (if not many) of the novels have rather disgusting deaths. Vermin being boiled alive, a ferret being sliced in half, a rat being crushed by a bell, a rat being mutilated by a cart's wheel, a shrew getting bitten by an adder and the grotesque body later being discovered, a rat getting thrown against a tree...and this is all only from the first novel.
The last two novels have a substantial amount of decapitations...most notably when Braggio gets his head chopped off and has it stuck onto the Greenshroud foremast. Also, The Sable Quean has a mole warrior getting a spearhead impaled into his footpaw, and then later having him force it back out. Have fun reading.
The emetic brewed up for Fleetscut in Lord Brocktree, which contains several highly toxic ingredients. Needless to say, it did its job.
Earlier in the series, good guys had real names (Constance, Ambrose, Jess, etc...), and bad guys had, er, descriptive names (Redtooth, Darkclaw). Now, they tend to have nonsensical cartoony cutesypoo names like Dimp, Laggle, Flim, Dawble, Nobbo...
Dibbuns in general. OK, Baby Rollo was funny. So were Bagg, Runn and Grubb. But as Jacques ran out of characters the dibbuns devolved into a sort of honey-sweetened sugarbowl hivemind. They've got them doing coordinated song and dance routines.
Let 'em sing and dance, as long as they drop that horrible "awight den, me go bang" style of talking. And being given the prize in nearly every competition that's held, whether or not they actually won.
Poems and riddles got devolved into guess-the-letter games. "My fifth is in pop but not pip" indeed.
Redwall Abbey itself. The first book hinted that it was a religious order but its use has slowly expanded until the point where every good guy either lives there or comes to live there, and just about everything is always perfect.
Antigra. She's the only Starscream (besides Greypatch) who succeeded in overthrowing the Big Bad. And then she's Put on a Bus. And then we find out that she was killed when trying to overthrow Ruggan Bor.
Veil Sixclaw. He had so many chances to redeem himself, but it wasn't until he saved Bryony from getting killed by sacrificing himselfthat he showed any signs of being good. Outcast of Redwall was supposed to be all about Veil either trying to redeem himself or joining his father's army, but in the end, none of the Redwallers cared that he saved Bryony; he was still branded as being a typical evil vermin, and his own father was the one who killed him. Even fans who hate Veil will agree that he should've gone through more Character Development.
Outcast of Redwall should've been called They Wasted a Perfectly Good Villain. Balefur, Zigu, and the Wraith are just a few of several interesting, badass villains who were all unique in their own special way and could've easily become an Ensemble Darkhorse. Not a single one of them lasted more than two or three chapters, and the ones that did, like Aggal, had only a few lines and no Character Development. The only exception was Nightshade.
Rinkul from The Long Patrol. He was a Dangerously Genre SavvyMauve Shirt and the only Rapscallion smart enough to realize something was off about Midge Manycoats and Tammo. But everytime he tried to warn somebeast, the other Rapscallions would tell him to shut up, threaten to kill him, or they physically abused him. When the Rapscallions finally find out that they're both hares and give chase, he's abruptly killed by Tammo when he throws a spear at him. Had Rinkul lived until the end of the story, he and Tammo could've gotten into an epic one-on-one swordsfight.
Many fans are still pissed over Globby's tragic unnecessary death.
Romsca just briefly tells Abbot Durral that her tale of becoming a corsair was long and hard, and then immediately drops the subject. Fans never got to find out about her backstory, since she was fatally wounded by Lask Frildur in the next scene she was in.
This was the reason why Outcast of Redwall and Taggerung got so much flak. Both novels introduced a new plot that involved making the main character different from the standard formula (Veil was intended to be an Anti-Hero, and Tagg an Anti-Villain, or vice versa), but after much anticipation of reading something new and creative, Tagg, an otter, ends up being good, and Veil, a ferret, ends up being bad, and no one cares about him even after he sacrifices his life to save somebeast.
An in-universe example in the case of Taggerung. The titular character removing his tattoos, assuming his original name, and settling down to a life of pure and wholesome goodness strikes the dibbun audience as incredibly unsatisfactory and boring.
Toy Ship: Canon example - Word of God is that Matthias and Cornflower were about thirteen during the Redwall time period, and they married at the end of the book. And had a kid by sixteen, probably a season earlier.
Trapped by Mountain Lions: If a novel doesn't involve the Big Bad trying to take over Redwall, but there is still a Redwall subplot involved, it probably falls under this trope. Some examples include...
The Ironbeak subplot in Mattimeo, which has nothing to do with Matthias' journey to rescue Mattimeo and slay Slagar.
For starters, the use of Always Chaotic Evil and You No Take Candle. Then there's a character who overcomes being confined to a wheelchair and blames it on her lack of willpower. This was semi-justified by the fact that this was actually a serious psychosomatic illness (worsened by the fact that she was carried on her grandmother's back for an impossibly long time) where the root problem was eventually removed. It's still phrased in a somewhat unfortunate way...
The treatment of many foxes as Roma, and not one of them can be trusted.
Really, Malbun, you and Crikulus should've known better than to leave Redwall in the middle of the night without telling anybody and without taking any sort of weapon along with you.
Going along with a very old and nearly blind red kite to try and kill three adders was probably not one of Ovus' best ideas...
Rasconza. After he throws a knife at Sagitar's chest, he gets a little too close to her body and proceeds to mock her, as opposed to leaving her to bleed out. While she's still clutching her trident. It doesn't end well for him.
Win Back the Crowd: The Sable Quean certainly did this after the author published quite a few lackluster (or downright horrible) novels. The Sable Quean gave us interesting and Badass protagonists who developed over time, no useless subplots (except for maybe one that was resolved quickly), a new plot, smarter villains, and Zwilt the Shade. Needless to say, many Redwall fans were pleased with this book. Unfortunately, just as the crowd came back...