History YMMV / Redwall

29th Jul '16 7:30:57 AM Anddrix
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* BaseBreaker:

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* BaseBreaker: BaseBreakingCharacter:



** Plugg Firetail, perhaps the only character from ''Triss'' who isn't a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]], Mary Sue, or BaseBreaker.

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** Plugg Firetail, perhaps the only character from ''Triss'' who isn't a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]], Mary Sue, or BaseBreaker.BaseBreakingCharacter.



** [[BaseBreaker Depending on how you feel about him]], Veil Sixclaw's ''entire'' subplot from ''Outcast of Redwall'' is this. Considering he is the title character (It's called "Outcast of Redwall", not "Sunflash Kicks Ass") it's quite an achievement.

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** [[BaseBreaker Depending on how you feel about him]], him, Veil Sixclaw's ''entire'' subplot from ''Outcast of Redwall'' is this. Considering he is the title character (It's called "Outcast of Redwall", not "Sunflash Kicks Ass") it's quite an achievement.
27th Jul '16 11:50:17 AM Morgenthaler
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** [[spoiler:Rinkul]] from ''The Long Patrol''. He was a DangerouslyGenreSavvy MauveShirt and the only Rapscallion smart enough to realize something was off about Midge Manycoats and Tammo. But everytime he tried to warn somebeast, the other Rapscallions would tell him to shut up, threaten to kill him, or they physically abused him. When the Rapscallions [[spoiler:finally find out that they're both hares and give chase, he's abruptly killed by Tammo when he throws a spear at him.]] Had [[spoiler:Rinkul]] lived until the end of the story, he and Tammo could've gotten into an epic one-on-one swordsfight.

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** [[spoiler:Rinkul]] from ''The Long Patrol''. He was a DangerouslyGenreSavvy clever MauveShirt and the only Rapscallion smart enough to realize something was off about Midge Manycoats and Tammo. But everytime he tried to warn somebeast, the other Rapscallions would tell him to shut up, threaten to kill him, or they physically abused him. When the Rapscallions [[spoiler:finally find out that they're both hares and give chase, he's abruptly killed by Tammo when he throws a spear at him.]] Had [[spoiler:Rinkul]] lived until the end of the story, he and Tammo could've gotten into an epic one-on-one swordsfight.
6th Jun '16 7:40:39 PM Angeldeb82
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* AngstWhatAngst?: The death thing might be a case of DeliberateValuesDissonance: the death rate in Mossflower is much, much higher than in 21st-century Western RealLife societies, so they get used to it quickly, and while they don't seem to have a God as such they're a lot more certain of an afterlife than many people here are.

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* AngstWhatAngst?: AngstWhatAngst: The death thing might be a case of DeliberateValuesDissonance: the death rate in Mossflower is much, much higher than in 21st-century Western RealLife societies, so they get used to it quickly, and while they don't seem to have a God as such they're a lot more certain of an afterlife than many people here are.



** [[spoiler: [[RedemptionEqualsDeath Veil's death]]]] in ''Outcast'', which came out of ''nowhere''. It seemed like that was thrown in there just... because. And it falls into FridgeLogic, since [[spoiler: Veil]] [[TakingTheBullet Took The Spear]] for somebeast he had no problem trapping inside of a cave and leaving to die just a few chapters earlier, and he definitely did ''not'' show a change in attitude between then and his HeroicSacrifice.

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** [[spoiler: [[RedemptionEqualsDeath Veil's death]]]] in ''Outcast'', which came out of ''nowhere''. It seemed like that was thrown in there just... because. And it falls into FridgeLogic, since [[spoiler: Veil]] [[TakingTheBullet Took The the Spear]] for somebeast some beast he had no problem trapping inside of a cave and leaving to die just a few chapters earlier, and he definitely did ''not'' show a change in attitude between then and his HeroicSacrifice.



** Horty is either a hilarious ButtMonkey [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass who has his occasional badass moments]], or he's a [[{{Wangst}} whiny]], [[TheScrappy annoying]] hare.

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** Horty is either a hilarious ButtMonkey [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass who has his occasional badass moments]], or he's a [[{{Wangst}} whiny]], {{w|angst}}hiny, [[TheScrappy annoying]] hare.



** [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge Grath Longfletch]] and [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Clecky]] from ''The Pearls of Lutra'', both of whom had more of a personality and interesting backstory compared to Martin. Let's just say there's a reason why Grath stands out the most [[http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060319161741/redwall/images/e/e2/UKPearlsOfLutraPB.jpg on the U.K. cover of the book]], and why Grath is ''the only character'' [[http://images.wikia.com/redwall/images/c/c4/Pol10.jpg on the U.S. cover of the book]].

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** [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge Grath Longfletch]] and [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Clecky]] {{C|rouchingMoronHiddenBadass}}lecky from ''The Pearls of Lutra'', both of whom had more of a personality and interesting backstory compared to Martin. Let's just say there's a reason why Grath stands out the most [[http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060319161741/redwall/images/e/e2/UKPearlsOfLutraPB.jpg on the U.K. cover of the book]], and why Grath is ''the only character'' [[http://images.wikia.com/redwall/images/c/c4/Pol10.jpg on the U.S. cover of the book]].



** Plugg Firetail, perhaps the only character from ''Triss'' who isn't a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]], MarySue, or BaseBreaker.

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** Plugg Firetail, perhaps the only character from ''Triss'' who isn't a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]], MarySue, Mary Sue, or BaseBreaker.



* HoYay: So much that it has [[HoYay/{{Redwall}} its own page.]]

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* HoYay: So much that it has [[HoYay/{{Redwall}} its own page.]]page]].



** Urthstripe the Strong's life isn't happy. Unlike Martin, ''both'' of his parents were killed before he could even speak. He's abandoned during the winter, somehow gets separated from his brother, and is forced to grow up fending for himself. He ends up becoming ruler of Salamandastron, but he and his daughter Mara don't see eye to eye. Eventually, she leaves the mountain...just when Ferahgo and his army attacks. Towards the end of the novel, [[spoiler:Urthstripe pulls one of the most epic [[HeroicSacrifice Heroic Sacrifices]] of all time. Unfortunately, he dies right when [[FondMemoriesThatCouldHaveBeen he finds his long-lost brother...and just when Mara was about to reconcile with her father]].]]

to:

** Urthstripe the Strong's life isn't happy. Unlike Martin, ''both'' of his parents were killed before he could even speak. He's abandoned during the winter, somehow gets separated from his brother, and is forced to grow up fending for himself. He ends up becoming ruler of Salamandastron, but he and his daughter Mara don't see eye to eye. Eventually, she leaves the mountain...just when Ferahgo and his army attacks. Towards the end of the novel, [[spoiler:Urthstripe pulls one of the most epic [[HeroicSacrifice Heroic Sacrifices]] {{Heroic Sacrifice}}s of all time. Unfortunately, he dies right when [[FondMemoriesThatCouldHaveBeen he finds his long-lost brother...and just when Mara was about to reconcile with her father]].]]



* MagnificentBastard: Cluny the Scourge from ''Redwall'' and Rasconza from ''The Pearls of Lutra''.
* MartyStu: Martin. [[IThoughtYouMeant No, not that Martin]], Mattimeo's son from ''The Pearls of Lutra''. Martin, his father Luke, Matthias, and Mattimeo all went through CharacterDevelopment and/or suffered some kind of tragedy (one of which turned Martin into a BrokenAce). Mattimeo's son, on the other hand, was just born perfect.



%%* MarySue:
%%** [[GodModeSue Tiria]] of ''High Rhulain'',
%%** [[PuritySue the Tabura and Salixia]] in ''Eulalia!''.
%%** Trimp in ''Legend of Luke''
%%** Rose.

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%%* MarySue:
%%** [[GodModeSue Tiria]] of ''High Rhulain'',
%%** [[PuritySue
* MagnificentBastard: Cluny the Tabura Scourge from ''Redwall'' and Salixia]] in ''Eulalia!''.
%%** Trimp in ''Legend
Rasconza from ''The Pearls of Luke''
%%** Rose.
Lutra''.



** Horty zigzagged this trope constantly. Everytime he got out the heap, he threw himself back in with his whining. But by the end of ''Loamhedge'', he finally gets (and ''stays'') out of the heap when [[spoiler: he and Bragoon take on several of Kharanjul's horde [[BackToBackBadasses back to back]]]].

to:

** Horty zigzagged this trope constantly. Everytime he got out the heap, he threw himself back in with his whining. But by the end of ''Loamhedge'', he finally gets (and ''stays'') out of the heap when [[spoiler: he and Bragoon take on several of Kharanjul's horde [[BackToBackBadasses back {{back to back]]]].back|Badasses}}]].



** [[spoiler:Antigra]]. She's the only [[TheStarscream Starscream]] (besides Greypatch) who succeeded in overthrowing the BigBad. And then she's PutOnABus. And then we find out that [[spoiler:she was killed when trying to overthrow Ruggan Bor]].

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** [[spoiler:Antigra]]. [[spoiler:Antigra.]] She's the only [[TheStarscream Starscream]] (besides Greypatch) who succeeded in overthrowing the BigBad. And then she's PutOnABus. And then we find out that [[spoiler:she was killed when trying to overthrow Ruggan Bor]].



** [[spoiler: [[EnsembleDarkhorse Plugg Firetail]]]].
** [[spoiler: [[CrazyAwesome Major Cuthbert]]]].
** [[spoiler: Skarlath]].
** [[spoiler: Balefur]].
** [[spoiler: Romsca]].
** [[spoiler: [[MagnificentBastard Rasconza]]]].
** [[spoiler: Zigu]].
** [[spoiler: Felldoh]].
** Despite his nature as a PosthumousCharacter, [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking King]] [[DyingMomentOfAwesome Sarengo]] [[DeathByOriginStory of Riftgard.]]

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** [[spoiler: [[EnsembleDarkhorse Plugg Firetail]]]].
Firetail.]]]]
** [[spoiler: [[CrazyAwesome Major Cuthbert]]]].
Cuthbert.]]]]
** [[spoiler: Skarlath]].
Skarlath.]]
** [[spoiler: Balefur]].
Balefu.]]
** [[spoiler: Romsca]].
Romsca.]]
** [[spoiler: [[MagnificentBastard Rasconza]]]].
Rasconza.]]]]
** [[spoiler: Zigu]].
Zigu.]].
** [[spoiler: Felldoh]].
Felldoh.]]
** Despite his nature as a PosthumousCharacter, [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking King]] [[DyingMomentOfAwesome Sarengo]] [[DeathByOriginStory of Riftgard.]]Riftgard]].



* WinBackTheCrowd: ''The Sable Quean'' certainly did this after the author published quite a few lackluster (or downright horrible) novels. ''The Sable Quean'' gave us interesting and {{Badass}} protagonists who developed over time, no useless subplots (except for maybe one that was resolved quickly), a new plot, smarter villains, and [[BloodKnight Zwilt the Shade]]. Needless to say, many Redwall fans were pleased with this book. Unfortunately, just as the crowd came back [[AuthorExistenceFailure the author left.]]

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* WinBackTheCrowd: ''The Sable Quean'' certainly did this after the author published quite a few lackluster (or downright horrible) novels. ''The Sable Quean'' gave us interesting and {{Badass}} protagonists who developed over time, no useless subplots (except for maybe one that was resolved quickly), a new plot, smarter villains, and [[BloodKnight Zwilt the Shade]]. Needless to say, many Redwall fans were pleased with this book. Unfortunately, just as the crowd came back [[AuthorExistenceFailure the author left.]]left]].



* WriteWhoYouKnow: WordOfGod is that Jacques based Gonff the Mousethief on his younger self, and Constance the badger was based on his grandmother. If that's true, Jacques must have had an ''impressively'' {{Badass}} [[NeverMessWithGranny grandmother...]]

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* WriteWhoYouKnow: WordOfGod is that Jacques based Gonff the Mousethief on his younger self, and Constance the badger was based on his grandmother. If that's true, Jacques must have had an ''impressively'' {{Badass}} [[NeverMessWithGranny grandmother...]]grandmother]]...
4th Jun '16 8:46:03 PM Angeldeb82
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** [[spoiler:Veil Sixclaw]]. He spends a majority of his life being a {{Jerkass}}, and then suddenly [[spoiler:sacrifices his life to save Bryony]]. No one even misses him.

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** [[spoiler:Veil Sixclaw]]. Sixclaw.]] He spends a majority of his life being a {{Jerkass}}, and then suddenly [[spoiler:sacrifices his life to save Bryony]]. No one even misses him.



** [[spoiler:Vitch]]. He spent the last moments of his life being a slave after [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder Slagar betrayed him]]. And when he's finally freed, Matthias tells Mattimeo to spare him because [[CruelMercy he has nowhere left to go]]. [[DroppedABridgeOnHim And then Slagar appears from nowhere and kills him for no reason]].

to:

** [[spoiler:Vitch]]. [[spoiler:Vitch.]] He spent the last moments of his life being a slave after [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder Slagar betrayed him]]. And when he's finally freed, Matthias tells Mattimeo to spare him because [[CruelMercy he has nowhere left to go]]. [[DroppedABridgeOnHim And then Slagar appears from nowhere and kills him for no reason]].reason.]]



** One of the most jarring examples is in ''Taggerung'' when the Deyna/Tagg's mother and sister are helping to organize a feast and contest very soon after the murder and disappearance of their dearest loved ones. They try to get past their disappearance, [[SubvertedTrope but Deyna's mother ends up breaking down and crying, and Mhera wasn't doing much better.]]

to:

** One of the most jarring examples is in ''Taggerung'' when the Deyna/Tagg's mother and sister are helping to organize a feast and contest very soon after the murder and disappearance of their dearest loved ones. They try to get past their disappearance, [[SubvertedTrope but Deyna's mother ends up breaking down and crying, and Mhera wasn't doing much better.]]better]].



* AwesomeMusic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0mD8_IGCA The TV show's theme song]].

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* AwesomeMusic: SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0mD8_IGCA The TV show's theme song]].



** Felldoh. On one hand, he took the LeeroyJenkins route and his actions resulted in the exact opposite of what he wanted to do. But on the other hand, he's badass, courageous, and had the balls to [[spoiler: attack Badrang ''by himself'' and humiliate him in front of his entire army by whipping him like a slave. If Badrang wasn't a stinking coward, summoning his goons to protect him, Felldoh would have no doubt killed him]]. And unlike Martin, Felldoh didn't waste his time dealing with a bunch of [[WackyWaysideTribe Wacky Wayside Tribes]]. Killing [[TheMole Druwp]] certainly helped in his favors as well.

to:

** Felldoh. On one hand, he took the LeeroyJenkins route and his actions resulted in the exact opposite of what he wanted to do. But on the other hand, he's badass, courageous, and had the balls to [[spoiler: attack Badrang ''by himself'' and humiliate him in front of his entire army by whipping him like a slave. If Badrang wasn't a stinking coward, summoning his goons to protect him, Felldoh would have no doubt killed him]]. And unlike Martin, Felldoh didn't waste his time dealing with a bunch of [[WackyWaysideTribe Wacky {{Wacky Wayside Tribes]].Tribe}}s. Killing [[TheMole Druwp]] certainly helped in his favors as well.
27th Apr '16 7:48:22 PM Quanyails
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** Martin from ''Pearls of Lutra''. He's either a kind, caring, Badass hero who is a splitting image of his ancestors Mattimeo and Matthias, or he's a very boring InvincibleHero surrounded by characters far more interesting and fleshed out than he is.

to:

** Martin from ''Pearls ''The Pearls of Lutra''. He's either a kind, caring, Badass hero who is a splitting image of his ancestors Mattimeo and Matthias, or he's a very boring InvincibleHero surrounded by characters far more interesting and fleshed out than he is.



** There's also Romsca (''Pearls of Lutra''), Mariel (''Mariel of Redwall''), and Sister May (''Mattimeo'').

to:

** There's also Romsca (''Pearls (''The Pearls of Lutra''), Mariel (''Mariel of Redwall''), and Sister May (''Mattimeo'').



** [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge Grath Longfletch]] and [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Clecky]] from ''Pearls of Lutra'', both of whom had more of a personality and interesting backstory compared to Martin. Let's just say there's a reason why Grath stands out the most [[http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060319161741/redwall/images/e/e2/UKPearlsOfLutraPB.jpg on the U.K. cover of the book]], and why Grath is ''the only character'' [[http://images.wikia.com/redwall/images/c/c4/Pol10.jpg on the U.S. cover of the book]].

to:

** [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge Grath Longfletch]] and [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Clecky]] from ''Pearls ''The Pearls of Lutra'', both of whom had more of a personality and interesting backstory compared to Martin. Let's just say there's a reason why Grath stands out the most [[http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060319161741/redwall/images/e/e2/UKPearlsOfLutraPB.jpg on the U.K. cover of the book]], and why Grath is ''the only character'' [[http://images.wikia.com/redwall/images/c/c4/Pol10.jpg on the U.S. cover of the book]].



* MartyStu: Martin. [[IThoughtYouMeant No, not that Martin]], Mattimeo's son from ''Pearls of Lutra''. Martin, his father Luke, Matthias, and Mattimeo all went through CharacterDevelopment and/or suffered some kind of tragedy (one of which turned Martin into a BrokenAce). Mattimeo's son, on the other hand, was just born perfect.

to:

* MartyStu: Martin. [[IThoughtYouMeant No, not that Martin]], Mattimeo's son from ''Pearls ''The Pearls of Lutra''. Martin, his father Luke, Matthias, and Mattimeo all went through CharacterDevelopment and/or suffered some kind of tragedy (one of which turned Martin into a BrokenAce). Mattimeo's son, on the other hand, was just born perfect.



** [[Series/{{Blackadder}} Friar Bellows]] in ''Salamandastron''. Probably not intentional. There's also Martin in ''Pearls of Lutra'', who is not the Martin the Warrior who founded the abbey (that ''was'' his namesake, however).

to:

** [[Series/{{Blackadder}} Friar Bellows]] in ''Salamandastron''. Probably not intentional. There's also Martin in ''Pearls ''The Pearls of Lutra'', who is not the Martin the Warrior who founded the abbey (that ''was'' his namesake, however).
27th Apr '16 7:40:04 PM Quanyails
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** [[spoiler:Dauncey's death]] in ''Rakkety Tamm'' and [[spoiler:Asio's death]] in ''Eulalia!'' segway immediately into what's for lunch that day. [[spoiler:Asio]]'s is especially jarring. Also, Sister Atrata's death. All but two characters seemed to forget she even existed after she died, and were relatively unscathed.

to:

** [[spoiler:Dauncey's death]] in ''Rakkety Tamm'' and [[spoiler:Asio's death]] in ''Eulalia!'' segway segue immediately into what's for lunch that day. [[spoiler:Asio]]'s is especially jarring. Also, Sister Atrata's death. All but two characters seemed to forget she even existed after she died, and were relatively unscathed.
27th Apr '16 7:36:05 PM Quanyails
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** There's a line in Lord Brocktree where Doomeye claims that he can shoot any beast, be they male or shemale...

to:

** There's a line in Lord Brocktree ''Lord Brocktree'' where Doomeye claims that he can shoot any beast, be they male or shemale...
29th Mar '16 1:15:38 PM SwashBucket
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Added DiffLines:

** Buckler the hare from ''The Sable Quean'' shares a name with Buckler the mole from ''Martin the Warrior''.
** There are two searats named Ripfang, one in ''Mossflower'' and the other in ''Lord Brocktree''. Interestingly, since ''Lord Brocktree'' takes place before ''Mossflower'' within a relatively close time frame, it's entirely possible that [[FridgeBrilliance they are the same rat.]] WordOfGod states that was merely a coincidence, but many fans like to think otherwise.
22nd Feb '16 1:43:16 PM Javertshark13
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Added DiffLines:

** Cheesethief crosses it when he brutally murders Scragg the weasel for the "crime" of being more competent than he is. He lies about it afterwards, sneeringly telling Killconey, who was friends with Scragg, that it was his own fault he got killed.
14th Feb '16 5:57:30 AM BossKey
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** Rinkul intended to "[[RapeAsDrama do that pair 'ard'n'slow afore dawnbreak]]" and there's a thoroughly disturbing passage about Gurgan Spearback using a spear to poke around in a hole in the side of the hill which is leaking water ... And the unintentional MinionShipping archery thing in ''Salamandastron''. ''And'' the UnfortunateNames. ''And'' the moles have been known to pronounce "came" as "cummed". ''And'' [[HaveAGayOldTime "quean"]] [[YouKeepUsingThatWord does not mean what Mr Jacques says it means]]. And by this point one really has to wonder if he's doing it deliberately.

to:

** ** Rinkul intended to "[[RapeAsDrama do that pair 'ard'n'slow afore dawnbreak]]" and there's a thoroughly disturbing passage about Gurgan Spearback using a spear to poke around in a hole in the side of the hill which is leaking water ... And the unintentional MinionShipping archery thing in ''Salamandastron''. ''And'' the UnfortunateNames. ''And'' the moles have been known to pronounce "came" as "cummed". ''And'' [[HaveAGayOldTime "quean"]] [[YouKeepUsingThatWord does not mean what Mr Jacques says it means]]. And by this point one really has to wonder if he's doing it deliberately.



** Gliv goes from garden-variety mook to this in just one line: "He was my mate. [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes I loved him.]]" The fact that she goes from serving Zwilt to plotting against him - even going as far as to [[spoiler:nurse Vilaya back to health after Zwilt stabs her]] - shows just how hard she's taking the loss of her other half. It's made all the worse when [[spoiler:Vilaya kills her for [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness having served her purpose]] and the narration briefly switches to Gliv's perspective as she's dying.

to:

** Gliv goes from garden-variety mook to this in just one line: "He was my mate. [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes I loved him.]]" The fact that she goes from serving Zwilt to plotting against him - even going as far as to [[spoiler:nurse Vilaya back to health after Zwilt stabs her]] - shows just how hard she's taking the loss of her other half. It's made all the worse when [[spoiler:Vilaya kills her for [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness having served her purpose]] purpose]]]] and the narration briefly switches to Gliv's perspective as she's dying.
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