Fridge / Persona 4
- A possible case of Gameplay and Story Integration- why is Izanagi (and Orpheus) so weak? Because Persona is the power of the heart, and "bonds are the true strength-" at this point the MC is still a blank slate with no friends at all.
- Speaking of, what about the inverse? Why is Adachi's Magatsu Izanagi so damn powerful when he isn't a wild card like the protagonist (or if he is, he doesn't showcase it) and has no social links to power him? The way you and your friends got as powerful as you were was through social links, after all. That's just it though—Adachi did have social links, he just manipulated and abused them. As shown with his own, you don't necessarily have to like, respect, or even really know a person to have a relationship with them, and the power granted to you by that relationship will stay with you even after it changes. His manipulative facade is what made Magatsu Izanagi so powerful.
- The stories of Orpheus and Izanagi are remarkably similar in many respects- a god/hero journeys into the underworld in the hopes of rescuing a deceased lover, yet the act of seeing her ruins any chance he had to fulfill that resurrection. It probably isn't a coincidence that the first Persona received by the main characters of games 3 and 4 are Orpheus and Izanagi respectively.
- When you first meet Adachi he's puking at the scene of a murder. Why would he, if he's the one that killed her? More than likely, it's not that she died, it's that she was there. Think about it. You just defied the laws of time and space to commit what has to be history's most perfect crime...only to discover the body was spat back out. After you were the last person not only to speak to her, but to touch her. Adachi must've been certain his prints would be lifted off her.
- If you try to talk to Marie in Golden on a rainy day, she will say she isn't allowed to go outside when her "existence is wavering, or something like that". This at first seems like something dumb to keep you from doing yet another social link on rainy days. But it makes perfect sense: the gas station attendant comes out on rainy days, and the attendant is Izanami. So allowing Marie to leave the Velvet room during the rain would bring her startlingly and dangerously close to the deity she was born from, who is later proven to be aware of Marie's existence and very disdainful of her.
- Unlike Yukari and Aigis, fellow long range fighters Yukiko and Naoto sometimes stumble after missing an attack. This seems stupid at first until you realize that also unlike their Persona 3 counterparts, both Yukiko and Naoto get up close for their Critical Hit attacks and thus can stumble after missing said attacks - Yukiko makes several melee strikes with her fan at the start of her critical hit, and although Naoto doesn't kick at the enemy until the end of hers, she does walk towards the enemy while firing, making it possible for her to trip.
- Actually if you ever watched how every character misses, trips and falls in both P3 and P4, you would see it's because they went out of sequence in doing their Critical Hit attacks (Akihiko doing his uppercut too early, Mitsuru missing with the front kick, etc). Therefore, when Naoto trips, it's because she tried to hit with her punt-kick-the-enemy too early without softening them up first.
- Another piece, courtesy of the Giant Bomb Endurance Run, concerning a baseball bat weapon for the main character: it deals good damage for the point that you can get it, but it's hit rating is 30, a third of normal weapons. The two guys playing note that one out of three is a good hit ratio for a baseball player.
- Except baseball players are hitting small balls flying at high speeds. The main character is fighting hulking monsters.
- I thought that its low hit was a reference to Casey at the Bat, like the Casey Bat in Earthbound
- How did Yukiko know about the King's Game? She learned it at the inn.
- In fact, when the team goes to Shadow Rise's dungeon, she's quick to say that nobody at the Amagi Inn knows anything about such sleazy places.
- This is Truth in Television, some of the tourists who come here often ask about places where they could get drunk/laid. And the Amagi Inn's influx of entertainers will require her family to have unofficially a good deal of knowledge about such places to stay in business. Or at least keep the amount of sordid affairs to a minimum
- In Persona 3, the MC seals Nyx to prevent human nihilism, AKA Erebus from contacting Nyx, causing Nyx to grant our wish and kill us all (or something like that). Aigis decides to try change human nature, so that this is not necessary. in Persona 4 killing Izanami causes humans to stop wishing for false things. this HAD to help Aigis.
- Almost. Izanami didn't die per say, more like her physical form was destroyed, and she swore to stop intervening in human affairs. However, this doesn't invalidate the above point. Thanks to her fog and manipulation, Aigis's goal would have previously been impossible. At the very least, there's now a chance at success.
- Teddie's Rank 1 Social Link seems rather out of place - it's before he joins the party, and that's when you get the whole "You are now friends! (Name) WILL NOW DIE FOR YOU." However, this is a case of story and gameplay coinciding - before he joins the party, he takes a massive hit from knocking out Shadow Rise and saving the Protagonist from death.
- I always thought that it was because you were now friends with Teddie. You became friends with Yosuke, Chie, Yukiko, the rest of the party, and they took hits for you. I always just thought that Teddie was that much of a good friend.
- Interesting, though it doesn't apply in Golden, where "(Name) WILL NOW DIE FOR YOU." doesn't appear until about Rank 9 in the link.
- Chie is somehow able to go around in winter in those tiny shorts without complaint. Why? Her persona is resistant/immune to ice.
- The anime has already done this. The very day the anime's website opened was on April 11th. What day did the protagonist move to Inaba...?
- Even the PV s are put on the website the day the person gets kidnapped.
- This one hit me while I was reading the Protagonist's entry on the character page. I was wondering why Kanji initially trusts and admires the protagonist more then the other party members, but when you think about it the Protagonist is the only other party member who knows Real Men Wear Pink.
- The reason Rise's breasts appeared too large when she appeared on the Midnight Channel was because her agency added several centimetres to her measurements when they released them, and the public who read this them was the source of the image.
- Equally likely is that pictures of Rise were photoshopped to make her look sexier, considering this goes on in real life & it ties into the motivation for Rise quitting - It's another aspect of her life that's being faked for the cameras.
- Yosuke learns only a handful of healing spells and Chie learns only three ice spells plus Ice Boost. Teddie learns both healing spells and Ice spells. In another words, Teddie takes the skill types Chie and Yosuke give up - and he joins around the time Yosuke learns Diarama and Chie learns Bufula.
- The party only move from the Fool arcana to the Judgement if you avoid the false answers of the bad ending, becoming Seekers of Truth rather than foolish Investigators.
- The background music for Yomotsu Hirasaka is spelt as 回廊 in Japanese; the doors in that dungeon are square shaped, and resemble the first kanji.
- Yukiko has dark hair and pale skin, and is usually associated with the colour red. Her shadow takes the form of a princess because she's constantly waiting for a prince to come. Her name translates as "snow child". She's Snow White.
- It may be pure coincidence but Yu summoning Lucifer against Ameno Sagiri turns quite meaningful when you remember that Lucifer means "light bringer".
- And that Ameno-Sagiri claims that he will be the ruler of order in the new world. Now, what does good ol' Lucy represent again?
- Lucifer is the ultimate Judgement persona and the Judgement arcana is about uncovering the truth.
- Yosuke means "helps" in japanese!!!
- In Persona 3, money seemed to be little object towards the end of the game, and it was quite easy to max out your money on a single playthrough. In Persona 4, however, money is a lot more scarce, and even towards the end you may not have enough to really purchase everything unless you're being frugal. At first, it seems like a simple gameplay mechanic update, but in retrospect, it makes sense. S.E.E.S. is supported by the Kirijo group, a powerful organization whom Mitsuru is part of. Lots of money can be thrown in their direction since the Dark Hour is a serious threat. The Investigation Team, however, is just a bunch of students trying to solve a mystery. There's no backing or anything. All their stuff they have to pay for out of pocket, so it makes sense they have less money to throw around.
- When you really think about it, it's rather easy to figure out who the killer is. Out of all the main and side characters, Adachi's the one you know the least about. The only real fact you know about him is that he was transferred from the city because of a screw up... And other than, that, you know nothing. And until Golden came out, the fact that he isn't a Social Link despite you seeing him around in the story, should be a big tip off.
- Golden: Very fitting that at the end of the ski trip, Marie uses Ziodyne instead of any other attack on the boys for peeping on the girls at the hot springs. Considering Yosuke and Teddie are weak to lightning, while Souji/Yu and Kanji are immune to it, she knew who was really at fault and punished them accordingly.
- Rie Kugimiya plays as an idol who is secretly sick of being pigeonholed into her role as a peppy teenage ditz. Hmm...
- This can be a reason why Rie voice Rise, in some way, another said of Rie. Where the fan she Rie as the Queen of Tsundere.
- Speaking of Rise, in Golden when Marie refuses her request to stop hugging the protagonist by saying "I'm tired of standing! Enough of getting up! Good thing there's someone even I can hug!" Initially, this makes no sense, until you realize that this is a direct jab at the ad that Rise was shown in AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME.
- During the fight against Kunino-Sagiri, he ends up turning your team mates against you. While fighting this boss in Golden, Rise chose to raise the team's attack the exact turn after they had been turned against MC. Originally it seemed like a glitch, but then it hit me; Rise had been turned against MC too.
- Why did the True Ending get an epilogue in Golden? It's providing a happy ending inplace of the original's Bittersweet Ending. It's a golden ending.
- This slightly overlaps with Fridge Horror, but in Golden, it bothered me that Adachi's Social Link has the arcana "Jester," which isn't a real Tarot card in any version of the Tarot that this troper is aware of (as opposed to, say, Marie's "Aeon," which is an occasionally-seen alternate for "Judgment"). But then I realized that the fake Tarot card makes sense: Adachi is only pretending to like you, and is secretly just keeping an eye on your actions as a player in his "game." The bond isn't genuine, hence neither is the Arcana.
- Further more, why does it become the "Hunger" arcana if you don't cover up for him? Hunger for the truth.
- Another note about the Hunger Arcana: it's numbered 11, same as Strength, but whereas Strength represents power with self-control, Hunger (aka Lust) is about abuse of that power and the feeling of bliss associated with it. Concerning how it fits Adachi, take a look at everything he got away with during the course of the game.
- Apparently, "Jester" is actually an alternate for "Fool"; Adachi does seem to fit the reversed meaning of the card (in the sense that one is squandering their abilities by going down the wrong path).
- Mind you, "Jester" and "Hunger" are really supposed to be "Pierrot" and "Lust", both of which are from the Thoth deck, like the Aeon arcana.
- Furthermore, the evolution into the Hunger Arcana also represents the bond itself. If you choose to cover up for him, the Social Link maxes out as the Jester Arcana, symbolizing the fact that you've solidified a false bond, and Adachi is smug, knowing that he's gotten away with everything. If, on the other hand, you choose to expose his crimes, then not only does it max out as the Hunger Arcana, but the story hints that Adachi might be on his way to genuinely atoning for his crimes. In other words, your once fake bond has become the real deal.
- Alternatively, the presence of the Jester Arcana can represent a bond that isn't necessarily false, but rather corrupt. By covering up for Adachi, the maxing of the Social Link as the Jester Arcana represents the fact that you chose to avert your eyes from the truth, unlike with other true bonds, which through them allow you to reach closer to the truth. Through forging a bond that reaches you closer to the truth, you have changed a person for the better and achieve resolution. However, by covering up for Adachi, you allow his weakness of character to get the better of you, and allow him to go off smugly. If you choose to expose Adachi's crimes and apprehend him, Adachi achieves resolution in his own way like the other people you forged bonds with, and undergoes character development, leading him to rethink his own ways of life, thus finding his answer to life. This is represented as the Social Link maxing as the Hunger (Lust) Arcana. Furthermore, in the Hunger Arcana route, Adachi also gives you a few subtle hints through a letter that ultimately allow you to truly reach out to the truth, and find the mastermind behind the events of the game, thereby bringing you closer to the truth, as most of your bonds do.
- Why does Naoto get votes from boys and girls during the Miss Yasogami paegant? She was the only one who didn't take part in the swimsuit contest, so it's possible that a large number of the girls voted for her because she was the only one who didn't go along with Teddie's game.
- In the ski trip in Golden, the Investigation Team pairs off in such a way that they were in the pairings which receive Ship Teasing during the game - the Protagonist & Rise, Yosuke & Chie, and Kanji & Naoto. The pairing of Teddie & Yukiko doesn't really receive any Ship Tease moments, but isn't a case of Pair the Spares - They're the two biggest ditzes in the group, with Teddie's habit for Incredi-bear-ly lame puns & terrible jokes, Yukiko laughing at pretty much anything, and both of them being somewhat out-of-touch with reality.
- Well, Yukiko did accidentally introduce Teddie to the concept of "scoring."
- The bad ending credits and the final dungeon have the same music. Why? In the bad endings, you're still trapped in the maze of Izanami's lies.
- In Golden, the player gains the opportunity to dress the Investigation Team up in various costumes, with the sole exception of Rise. Whilst this is ostensibly because she's in a support role & not part of the frontline party, there is an in-character reason for it - as an Idol Singer & actress, Rise had to dress up in various costumes for her job. In fact, her Shadow is explicitly based around her desire for people to see her as Rise & not the various characters her job has her portray.
- Shadow Teddie's design doesn't seem very symbolic at first, compared to the others. But after you've beaten the game, you might notice something familiar about his eyes — they're shaped like Ameno-Sagiri's eye, since Ameno-Sagiri is the one who created him, as hinted by Rise.
- You might also notice the giant cracks in his face and that they reveal nothing but black void. He's empty inside.
- Additionally, his Shadow self is just him, just bigger and more disturbing, as opposed to everyone else who has a drastically different design from their normal selves. Why is this? Well, Teddie's already a Shadow!
- Shadow Naoto's design as well also doesn't seem very symbolic at first. After all, what does a giant flying robot have to do with wanting to be taken seriously as a detective? But reflecting on it, the appearance makes a lot of sense — robots don't age and have no gender, two things Naoto has struggled with in her career.
- Another possible explanation, Shadow Naoto specifically looks like an action figure of some kind. When a kid looks at an action figure, they might see it as "cool" or "masculine," but when an adult looks at it, it's just a kid's toy. This could represent the way Naoto wants to be seen, but whenever she acts that way, her co-workers see her as a child trying too hard to be something she's not.
- One of the harder shadows selves to pin down is the first one you fight, Shadow Yosuke. As it turns out though, it's design is based off of the "Frog in the Well" proverb, where a frog refuses to leave it's well despite being told there are better things out there. This is meant to mirror Yosuke's feelings of entrapment within Inaba, and his desire to go back to the city. As for the figure on the frog's back, it's meant to represent a twisted version of Yosuke's ideal hero, which in itself represents the idea of him using the murders as an excuse to become a hero, thus alleviating him of his boredom.
- Why do the Persona 3 mooks (and most enemy map-avatars) look like a bunch of pitch-black hands holding a mask, while the Persona 4 mooks look like acid-trip balls with giant tounges? Answer: It's all based on how the people in each city LIE. At school where the battles take place, people talk and yap and push and bully and insult to create an outward appearance; a focused group effort at looking like total Jocks or Libbies. Meanwhile, in the rural television town, most of the lies come from rumors and myths; the shadows take the form of the obnoxious, big headed rumor-spreaders. Oh, and 99% of what you hear from the television is made of two things; smoke and mirrors. And the smoke comes from the wrecked sets.
- So why are both of them the very first shadows you face in Persona Q? Because the Investigation Team (from the rural town) & SEES (from the city) meet each other. It might also act as a hint that, whichever team you choose, you're not the only group of persona users to enter the Labyrinth.
- Speaking of Shadows, carried over from Persona 3, there's a type of enemy known as the "Lustful Snake". Its weakness? Ice. Also, a Persona by the name of "Mara" appears frequently within Megami Tensei as a certain pun on an object, even though it's original history has nothing to do with said object. What's even weirder is that it, in this game, can naturally get "Makarakarn", a move that reflects Magic. Now which is more controversial: this Persona (which, in this game, arrives on a cart), or shooting yourself in the head?
- The elemental attributes of the Investigation Team's Personae pertain in someway to what each Persona was as a Shadow.
- Jiraiya knows Garu spells because Shadow Yosuke just wanted to be rid of Inaba.
- Tomoe knows Bufu spells because Shadow Chie was a cold-hearted bitch who wanted nothing more than to make Yukiko — whose own Persona just happens to be weak to ice her bitch.
- Konohana-Sakuya knows Agi spells because Shadow Yukiko was willing to burn down anything that restrained her — including the prison that was the Amagi Inn.
- Take-Mikazuchi knows Zio spells because Shadow Kanji was willing to strike down anyone who didn't accept him for what he was.
- Himiko is a scanning Persona because Shadow Rise was the Shadow of someone who wanted others to get to know her better.
- Kintoki-Douji knows Bufu spells because Shadow Teddie had a cold and bleak outlook on life.
- Sukuna-Hikona knows Hama and Mudo spells because Shadow Naoto was the Shadow of someone who wanted to keep others in the dark about her own insecurities as she worked overtime to bring the truth of things to light. Shadow Naoto's resistance to Agi spells is also representative of her hidden anger and frustration at being belittled.
- It should be obvious that Mitsuo isn't the real killer (except for Mooroka, anyway). He has a Shadow… which means he doesn't have a Persona, required to go to the TV World.
- Anybody who played either part of Persona 2 should immediately pick up on something. The villain(s) for those games was The Joker. Adachi's Jester arcana is just a synonym away from being a Late-Arrival Spoiler.
- I didn't notice it before but Namatame's role in the game is a satire on criminal justice in Japan. There is a serious problem in Japan where suspects are automatically judged to be guilty whether or not they actually did the crime, sometimes getting the death sentence. It got so bad that Japanese TV stations have to censor the suspect's hands so viewers can't see the handcuffs which might impair their judgement. In Persona 4, the Investigation Team was about to murder Namatame because the TV told them he was the culprit and half of them weren't even going to bother asking questions if it wasn't for Yu's intervention.
- If you romance Chie Satonaka in Golden, on Valentine's Day, you get a scene with her at the beach where she goes on about how surprised she is that you chose her, when you could have had any of the other girls on the Investigation Team. This is actually Leaning on the Fourth Wall; as mentioned on the YMMV page, Chie is the least popular romantic choice, especially of the Investigation Team options, amongst the fans. She even engages in some Lampshade Hanging as to why; she's a Tomboy with a Girly Streak, meaning she's not as conventionally feminine as Yukiko, she's not as exotic as Naoto, and as for Rise, well, she's pretty much the epitome of desirability to average Japanese guys. It's quite understandable she's so surprised by the player's interest in her, she has every reason, In-Universe, to think she's not anyone's "type".
- Kaguya Hime, the ultimate persona of the Aeon Arcana, has a very futuristic, almost metallic design... and rabbit ears. The latter seem out of place, unless you think about the origins of Kaguya Hime. Originally the main character of the famous Japanese folk story The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter, Kaguya Hime is later revealed to belong to a group of celestial beings living on the moon. The designers incorporated this into her design by referencing the Moon Rabbit, another famous mythical figure.
- The three people Izanami give the power to enter the TV to can be seen as representative of the Id, Superego and Ego.
- The id is basically the person's primal instincts. A person with too much focus on the id acts on all of his desires and urges without regard for others, in other words a sociopath. Pretty much fits Adachi. His entire motivation for his crimes was because he was bored and wanted to get some kicks out of the situation.
- The superego is basically the person's morality. However, too powerful of a superego can also be a bad thing since it only acts on whether something is morally right. Namatame threw people into the TV out of an obsession to be the hero and "save" everyone, not stopping to think about what he was doing or what the world he was throwing people in was really like.
- The ego is the mediator between the other two. It takes both the compulsions of the id, and the morality of the superego and applies both to reality to form sound, realistic actions. Yu acts as the calm, levelheaded leader of the Investigation Team, as best demonstrated when he stopped the Team from killing Namatame so that they could learn the truth.
- Kanji being able to carry his Shield/Chair/School Desk/what-have-you to Junes, even though there's no possible way it can be concealed under his school uniform makes a lot more sense when you remember that most of the town still sees him as a dangerous and violent delinquent, despite the Investigation Team knowing that there's more to him than that. If you were an ordinary townsperson and you saw the town thug carrying a big, heavy piece of metal that could be used as a weapon, you wouldn't go up to him and try to stop him, you'd hit the bricks in the other direction as fast as your feet would carry you.
- A case of Nice Job Breaking It, Hero - Namatame would've realized that he wasn't saving the victims if Yukiko died, but because you kept saving them from the Midnight Channel he thought that they were being kept safe from the killer through his actions. That's why he has a Messiah Complex when you confront him.
- The Big Bad chooses three representatives of humanity, one for hope, one for despair, and one for emptiness. As of Golden, there are also three aspects of Izanami's personality: Ameno-Sagiri, Kunino-Sagiri and Kusumi-no-Okami. Moreover, they correspond to each other: Adachi embraces Ameno-Sagiri's vision and is a key part of his plan, Kunino-Sagiri fights on behalf of Namatame in his attempt to "save" Nanako, and Kusumi-no-Okami is romantically involved with the protagonist as Marie. In this context, the ending makes a lot more sense: Marie absorbs Izanami and becomes the dominant personality corresponds to the protagonist's victory over Adachi and Nametame.
- Why does Magatsu-Izanagi have Magarudyne in its level up skill set? Well, what is its rival, Izanagi, weak to again?
- It took me a while to notice it since it's such a tiny detail: when the investigation team is running after Dojima (who has taken off after Namatame in his car) and find that he's crashed, the first one to react is Naoto, who mumbles something about a car accident with a very uncharacteristic, shocked look on her face. Both her parents died in a car accident, and for all we know, she may have been there as well! Even if she only heard the news, the thought of someone close to her getting in one again must be particularly horrifying.
- Why does Rise constantly hit on the MC, even when he has a girlfriend who's standing right there? Her arcana is the Lovers. Further, what does she do in combat? Support you, like a good SO would.
- When you think about it, the Investigation Team's early theories about who's being targeted weren't actually wrong:
- It's no coincidence that the first two victims were female: Adachi (who is presumably straight) targeted them for sexual assault.
- It's no coincidence that the first few victims were related to the Yamano affair case: The affair was what brought Ms. Yamano to Adachi's attention in the first place and gave him an opportunity to get close to her by passing himself off as her police detail. The murder was what gave Adachi access to Saki. Her connection to the murder was the reason people were interested enough in Yukiko for her to be on the midnight channel.
- It's no coincidence that the victims all appeared on the midnight channel: Obviously, for all but the first two, Namatame kidnapped them because of the Midnight Channel. For the first two, the same circumstances that made people interested in them (the affair and subsequent murder) and thus made them end up on the midnight channel were the same circumstances that gave Adachi access to them.
- Shu's social link requires Saintly understanding; "Motherly" (the second-highest rank) isn't enough. Makes sense, since Shu's problems mostly stem from his *mother* not understanding how he feels.
- Something that bugged this troper for a long time was why do shadows counterparts try to kill their doppelgangers? In the Jungian archetype, Shadows represent the feelings denied by the ego out of shame, which tend to be very selfish, negative, and destructive toward others. For Yosuke, Chie, and Yukiko, these manifested as resentment, envy, and anger respectively. It would make sense to assume that they were just mad at being repressed and wanted to get revenge, since they lack self control and would immediately lash out with unchecked aggression. However, Kanji, Rise, and Naoto all had repressed sides that were more about the desire to be accepted for who they are, frustration that they weren't, and fears that they never would. Shadow Naoto even said that Naoto needed to accept that she was a child and there's nothing she can do about it. Why would these shadows lash out and try to kill their other selves? The brilliance part comes when you read into some of their dialogue. Shadow Chie, in the game and animation, said she'd "be the only one left standing" and that she'd "treat Yukiko very well, as her personal punching bag." During the fight with Shadow Kanji, he said that he'd "already made his decision to go through with this." Jung said that denying your shadow gives it more control over you and your actions. The shadows aren't trying to kill them out of anger or revenge. They're trying to take control and become the dominant personality.
- Mixed Brilliance/Horror: If a person is killed, it's pretty obvious that their shadow would die with them. Except the shadows themselves don't seem to be aware of this. In their desire to become the dominant personality, should they succeed, they end up completely destroying themselves as well. Who's to say that isn't what some shadows want in the first place, as might've been the case for Mayumi and Saki.
- The anime's last episode where Yu is afraid to leave Izanami's prison makes sense on a meta level. The player doesn't want the game to end, and neither does Yu.
- Literal fridge brilliance: Neither Nanako nor Dojima cook that much; Nanako knows how to make sunny-side up-eggs and salad, and Dojima knows how to buy takeout sushi. Yet every time Nanako goes shopping, there just happens to be everything you need for a specific dish, often with ingredients it seems doubtful Nanako would ever use on her own. This isn't serendipity; Nanako is passive-aggressively suggesting that you make dinner for a change. Fridge horror sets in when you realize that, oblivious to the hints, you kept fixing whatever Nanako wanted for dinner as lunch for your friends instead.
- A meta example: When the MC talks to Kanji after the fake culprit is arrested, Kanji expresses his annoyance about how the media takes apart every bit of information about Misuto and tries to make him seem like a born criminal. If you've played the game after you know who the culprit is, then you would be looking for all those hints, wouldn't you? Some of them are documented on this page!
- Overlaps with Fridge Horror, but Nanako represents the Justice Social Link. In the Bad Ending, Justice dies and the killer gets away with everything.
- The TV World represents the collective unconscious of mankind, while the fog represents the illusions held by those who cannot see the truth. Initially, the TV World is bleak and filled with monsters, but as when the fog lifts, it becomes peaceful and beautiful, representing how people appear evil, but for the most part are fundamentally good - even the killer is not beyond redemption.
- The Velvet Room is a limo instead of an elevator in Persona 3. While both stop at the climax of the story, this represents how the Persona 4 protagonist has reached his destination but could return to Inaba some day, while the Persona 3 protagonist, like an elevator at the top floor, can go no further.
- How come that every time you recruit a new member to the Investigation Team, that new member is nearly as, slightly above, or the same level you are? How come Naoto starts off such a higher level than Kanji or Chie for example? They are all high school students, and their physical abilities shouldn't be so far apart from each other, so how come their Personas are?
It's because that the strength of the TV-world Personas mirrors the strength of the person's real-life social persona, as in how Carl Jung describes the Persona in his psychology theories. It just so happens that each party member you get has a stronger social Persona than the last.
The definition of Carl Jung's theory of the Persona is that the Persona is a mask that the ego uses to interact with the outside world, while keeping the wearer safe from emotional damage and conceal the true self of the wearer. So, the Persona's strength/effectivity is based on how well a person can interact with the outside world, while also keeping the user from getting emotionally hurt. Now look at how each member of the Investigation Team interacts with the outside world, going in chronological order.
Yosuke doesn't start off with a strong Persona. He tries to hide his pain and fear of loneliness by seeming optimistic, cheerful and funny. However, [[spoilers: when Saki dies]], he immediately drops this social Persona and becomes sad, regretful and serious for a while. In fact, when anything serious happens, he completely drops his Persona and instead faces the problem as well as he can. His Persona also doesn't help him connect with others, he basically has no real friends, and can't get new ones because the town hates Junes for ruining the shopping district. This isn't Yosuke's fault, and I doubt any Persona would help him connect to other people when they hate him for no good reason. But because of this, he hasn't developed a strong social Persona that won't collapse in stressed situations.
Ultimately this Persona fails in both protecting him emotionally, as well as interact with the outside world. It's not a strong social Persona, no matter how much we might like Yosuke.
Chie has an interesting Persona, because her entire connection to the outside world and her own emotional strength revolves around her being friends with/being better than Yukiko. By being the one who protects the beautiful and popular Yukiko, as well as feeling that Yukiko is able to doing anything without the her help, Chie feels good about herself, and feels that she is 'better' than Yukiko. Everyone likes Yukiko, so by being better than her, Chie feels very confident in who she is. By having Yukiko as a pillar of support to her self-esteem, as well as she has an outgoing personality that makes it pretty easy to interact with people, Chie's social Persona is actually pretty effective.
However, that's also why she freaks out so much when Yukiko dissapears. Beside the obvious reasons, it's also because Chie needs Yukiko to have a functioning social Persona. Chie's Shadow outrights states that Chie is helpless without Yukiko.
Ultimately, Chie has a good social Persona, but it's also rather fragile and completely dependent on the presence of another person to work.
I would call it effective, not sturdy.
Yukiko has practically been gifted a strong Persona by being born into a strong family and having good looks. Her family is influential, so people respect her as the future inheritor of the inn, and people also mind their matters when speaking to her because she is the most beautiful girl in school. Because of this, Yukiko has not created her own social Persona, but had it crafted for her by circumstances. By not choosing/creating her own Persona, she clearly suffers from it. She wants to run away from home and wishes to not be the inheritor of the inn.
It's a strong Persona, but she feels it doesn't fit her, as she didn't choose to 'wear' it.
This is also reflected in the fact that her TV-world Persona, Konohana Sakuya, which, some of you may not know, is a japanese holy tree spirit, uses fire for offensive spells. Her Persona is also inherited/pushed upon her, but she actually uses fire, something that really doesn't fit into what kind of creature/Persona it is, reflecting how her true self is rebellious and different from what the Persona represents. After she gets recued, she tries to turn her life around, but she discovers she actually does want to inherit the inn and fill the role that was pushed upon her from birth. The differnece is that now, she chose it herself.
Ultimately, it's a strong Persona that is good at both protecting herself as well as interacting with the outside world, Yukiko is just not sure how she wants to wield it, if she even wants to wield it at all, and thus it's not as effective for her as later characters' Personas are for them.
Kanji has made a Persona/image of himself as a tough delinquent that everybody hates, so that no one will come close enough to his heart to hurt him.
Unlike Yukiko, Kanji totally owns this social Persona, as it's one he has developed for himself. It protects him from what he fear most: "being rejected",
very well by making everyone hate him. The problem comes is when it comes to communicating with the outside world, as this social Persona leaves him with basically no one to talk to, beside maybe the cops. In actuality, it's a very self destructive social Persona and would eventually lead him to have a very bad life, if it hadn't been for the Investigation Team.
When someone finally accepts him, and he has people from the outside world actually want to communicate and interact with him, Kanji becomes a lot stronger emotionally. It's clear that he will slowly develop a new social Persona for himself over time, but as for the timespan of the game, it doesn't change.
Ultimately, since he now has what was the biggest problem with his original social Persona to begin with, people that care for him,
it becomes a strong social Persona that he can use proficiently, at least until he naturally develops a new one when he becomes less of a delinquent in the future.
Rise's problem is fascinating, because her problem isn't that she has a weak social Persona, but what social Personas she does have comepletely rule her life. Rise is an actor, and she is so good at taking on another role different from herself, that she slowly losses track of who she really is. When she works as an idol, she always has to wear/be different Personas to get attention from sponsers, and also simply her job in general.
Spending all her time in the studio, the producers and managers milk her for all she's worth and take up all the free time a high school girl would normally have, and because of it, she doesn't get the chance to interact with other people without her 'masks' on.
Rise's social Persona is incredibly strong, as she actually interacts with fans all over the country and establishes a strong connection with them. It's also good at protecting her inner self, it's just that her social Persona takes up so much space in her life that there isn't that much time she simply gets to be 'Rise', and not 'Risette' or 'the idol movie star' and so forth.
That's also why her TV-world Persona takes the form of a satellite
: her true self is one that searches for who she really wants to be.
Because of this, it becomes a completely support oriented Persona, who has the power to search for the true selves/presences of other people. More specifically, she is probably searching for their true selves, as she needs hints about the person to get anywhere.
Rise can't fight on her own, she just isn't meant to do so. However, she can find other's 'masks', which she can interact with and nurture. Just like how she can't be her true self because she doesn't know which Rise is really her,
but can function very well with the world around her by taking on the masks she knows works in the social context she is in.
Ultimately, Rise has a very strong Social Persona, she just doesn't know which one she identifies the most with.
Teddie is someone who... actually, I don't know how well Teddie fits into all of this. He only gets a Shadow after he develops a strong ego in Rise's dungeon, but before that, Teddie was a Shadow. He had no true self, and his whole character arc is him developing a self and fitting in with the real world.
I don't know... I think I will skip Teddie. Feel free to add a comment to this part if any of you can think of how he would fit into this whole thing.
(warning, reading this will automatically spoil a lot about the characters true identity, as I can't reasonably block out all of them without making the spoiler obvious. As ma lot of what I want to write revokves around this spoiler, Naoto's section here will go completely unmarked by spoilers. So if you haven't finished Naoto's dungeon, just skip Naoto and go down to the last section)
Naoto has the strongest Persona of the whole team. For one, Naoto is completely sure of who she wants to be, and how she wants others to see her. Because of this, she can completely 'fit' into her social Persona without having some detrimental affect to her true self, which neither Yukiko, Kanji and even Rise couldn't do.
Furthermore, her role as a detective allows her to go about interacting with the outside world and her job in a completely calm and objective manner, without having to establish any lingering emotional connection to anyone she meets through it. This is ideal for Naoto's personality, and she probably couldn't find a job or social Persona that fits her better than this one. Naoto's problem is... while she is very mentally stable, has a good connection to the outer world, and can keep herself from getting hurt emotionally... she feels she doesn't fit her ideal image of a detective physically. She loves this social Persona; it's everything she could ever wish for, the role of being a detective. Yet, society tells her she can't be one because she's a girl. Irronically, Naoto feels like she was born for this job, but her birth as the wrong gender makes it so she normally wouldn't be able to pursue it.
Naoto doesn't hate being a girl, she hates that because she is one, society won't accept her for who her true self is. That's why she rejects her gender, and tries to be male. Because her true self is completely dependent on her being male for being able to do what she wants to be. The presence and friendship of the Investigation Team after she is rescued doesn't even help this aspect of Naoto, which is clear after she decides to keep wearing the male school uniform even after everyone st school knows she's not a guy. But it's only around Yu and the Investigation Team that she feels it's fine for her to be a girl.
Ultimately, Naoto has a very strong Persona that couldn't fit her any more perfectely, besides the fact she is not a man, which the Investigation Team balances out by allowing her to be whoever she wants when around them. She is very balanced because of this, and has the highest level Persona because of it.
Everyone's level is based of how strong their real life social Personas are in the game, and how well they interact with the outside world. Isn't that cool?!
- Once you discover the identity of the killer, you can't help but think of all the times they just stood there, smiling with you, laughing with you, maintaining the facade of humanity. Think back on all the times they were helpful and friendly. Think of how they had dinner with you, and sat directly across from you the entire time. This person casually engineered the murders almost a dozen people, including a 7 year old girl and the son of a bitch just stood there smiling! The second playthrough is all the more chilling because you know what's happening but can't do anything to stop it...
- The sexually-charged Midnight Channel debuts of Shadow Yukiko and Shadow Rise become a lot more disturbing when you remember that Adachi tried to force himself on one of their classmates.
- Besides it being implied in the ending, there might be another clue that the Midnight Channel has been around for a LONG time. Remember the paintings of those people on the spiral at the entrance of the Midnight Channel? It could be people who were murdered before. And this painting is there even when you first enter the Midnight Channel. This reinforces the idea that the events of the game has happened before. And by the looks of the numbers of people, it was A LOT.
- Actually, from what Mr Kondo the PE/English Teacher says, the town gets covered in fog every 50 years. Which is rather disturbing...
- While meeting your maxed S-Links one elderly character will mention that they remember there being a similar incident several years ago.
- Well, TVs are recent inventions, so chances are, if a similar incident did occur in Inaba, it probably only happened one other time.
- Who said it had to be TV? WMG, but what if we take the interpretation that it's people instantly trusting a media source because it's easier to do that than find out the truth. Meaning that it could happen with say, newspapers. Especially tabloids.
- At first, Yosuke's Shadow seems to be exaggerating how bored and lonely Yosuke feels deep down. Progressing his Social Link seems support this idea as well. Then you realize that the Shadow is the side we DON'T want people to see and that part of Yosuke really did just see everything as a tool to block out his pain. What makes it worse is that his Shadow tried to kill you, not because you opposed it or invaded its territory, BUT BECAUSE YOU BORED IT! Makes you wonder how badly Yosuke would've ended up if the Protagonist wasn't there.
- If you mean psychologically… He would've ended up like Adachi, obviously. …Not that that makes it any better.
- A very horrifying thought indeed, because Yosuke and Adachi are so scarily similar in their motivations. One has to wonder what would happen if Izanami instead choose Yosuke to represent "emptiness" in her game rather than Adachi...
- The glasses that let you see through the TV-world fog are made by Teddie, but he claims he doesn't need any because has that ability naturally. Are the glasses made of Shadow eyes?!
- How would he have gotten the eyes from other Shadows at the start of the game? He couldn't fight at all.
- He is a Shadow, he can already see clearly. Then again, if he hasn't fought yet and a reliable way of forging things is to fight Shadows and collect the materials they drop . . .
- Who says materials can only be gathered from Shadows? For all we know Teddie could have just went to a glasses shop counterpart in his world.
- They probably would have shown the shop if it were that significant. Plus he mentions that he made them himself, so it's highly unlikely there's a glasses shop.
- Given that Teddie has shown to both be capable of recovering from extensive damage quite quickly and to make things out of himself, such as the doll he gave Nanako, it's entirely possible that the lenses used in all the glasses were his own eyes.
- Teddie can also make TV's appear to exit the TV world remember? It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say he could just magically "poof" new glasses for the investigation team to use anytime he wants.
- When Nanako is kidnapped, the Investigation Team realizes that the kidnapper is able to snatch up his victims using his deliveryman job as a cover. Naoto specifically notes that Nanako must have opened the door to him because he had often delivered to the house before, and so wasn't a stranger. And what do you think he was delivering all those times? Why, all the things that you ordered from Tanaka's Commodities. Nice Job Getting Your Surrogate Sister Kidnapped, Hero.
- The reason Adachi is reassigned from the city to Inaba is, according to him, some minor screw-up. However, considering his apparent psychosis at that point, just what would he consider a "minor screw-up"?
- Considering how quickly he became violent towards Mayumi and Saki for "turning him down", this draws a disturbing parallel to the real-life epidemic of organizations transferring sexual abusers to rural locations...
- Especially chilling when you consider that we have only Adachi's word that he was transferred for a minor screw-up, and he never seems to say more about it than it being a minor screw-up. People who've really had their careers derailed for something minor or petty are probably going to complain about it often and in detail (think about Julian Bashir and his preganglionic fiber). Saying nothing but it's something minor might imply that he knows other people wouldn't consider it so minor...
- One thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that Mitsuo although institutionalized now has the ability to enter into the tv world at will or worse to throw people in...scary.
- Not really. Remember, he didn't accept his shadow and did not gain a persona. As a result, he lacks the power to enter of his own free will.
- Daidara is a man unfazed by and perfectly willing to accept requests he create bladed weapons, and eventually functioning guns, that schoolchildren can conceal under their uniforms...
- Of course, considering the state of the town's economy, he's probably willing to take any request he gets, regardless of morals.
- Considering some of the strange requests Daidara himself makes, and some NPC conservations mentioning that the strange fog has appeared in Inaba before, it's a fairly popular theory that he's actually at least somewhat aware of what the Investigation Team is really up to, like Officer Kurosawa was in P3; hell, there's a conversation you can get where he'll give you a speech about how you should take pride in combating evil.
- Souji's parents travel around a lot, and the manga◊ seems to confirm that there were times when he was younger and all alone in his house. How much déjà vu do you think he feels looking at Nanako?
- "Personae", in psychology, are masks used by people to hide your inner personality. Meanwhile, "Shadows" in the game are "manifestations of the true self". Remember what causes the Shadows to go berserk? That's right, by denying your own self, you become a Persona. That's why people faint when they do so and Shadows get a huge power boost. Also remember how messed up Mitsuo ended up when you destroyed the Shadow...
- Related to that, if a "Shadow" is a manifestation of the true self, that means that every one of the lesser Shadows you've been casually killing in the dungeons (i.e. the various Mooks) was a manifestation of somebody's inner thoughts. That's right, you have been destroying pieces of peoples' minds. Overlaps with Fridge Brilliance: Why does the population of Inaba start going crazy and panicking about the fog near the end of the game? Because they're unstable without the parts of themselves you destroyed. Nice going, hero!
- One of the WMGs of Persona 4's Good Ending hints at this. Now that the fog of deceit has been dissipated by the heroes and humanity can now witness the truth, that should be good, right? Well, Adachi and Mitsuo are proof that Be Yourself means accepting your inherent evil and depravity. Now there might be a new generation of villains accepting their shadows and gaining the power of Persona...
- On a much lesser scale, there's the Amorous Snake miniboss. It's a wiggly white blob that fights by giving you lots of status ailments. You find it in a strip club dungeon. That means the status ailments are sexually transmitted diseases, and the white blob is semen. BLEUGH.
- Let's not forget that the Shadows are Anthropomorphic Personifications of real mental issues that the characters are suffering. When battling any one of those bosses, just think about what it takes to create that.
- Mitsuo's Shadow is meant to symbolize his immaturity and that he's always hiding behind his video games. However, it also says things like, "I'll end your emptiness. It'll be quick." and, "I need to know I exist. That is why I must kill you." This dialogue makes you wonder just what Mitsuo went through in his life to feel like that.
- The school campout. Kanji, having his manliness and sexuality questioned by Yosuke, ends up in the girls tent area to prove his manliness. While it was not a smart move, he was not threatening anyone. Then, he got knocked out by Chie and Yukiko, no questions asked. Now, remember this is the guy who took out an entire biker gang by himself. The more you think about the amount of strength used on him, and considered it would have easily killed your average man, the more the scene reads like an attempted murder. Made even worse by the fact they are actually discussing about commiting a murder because the hypothetical victim is snoring. Made more explicit in the anime.
- "Discussing committing a murder"? It's pretty evident that Yukiko, cuckoo as she can be at times, actually thought covering up Hanako's nose and mouth was a perfectly normal solution to solving their snoring tentmate problems. Note that Chie immediately objects, since she probably realizes that it actually is dangerous. Not that anything of value would have been lost had they actually done it.
- Not really scary or anything, but Rise remarks that she was supposed to have a gig before in the Port Island Club, but was cancelled due to a power outage. Think about that situation, and replay the Hermit boss fight from the third game.
- Once you know that Adachi is the culprit, it becomes evident that certain things like drawing attention to Rise's stalker and trying to prevent Dojima or the team from chasing Namatame were just to ensure that the kidnappings were completed.
- Rise's agency publically released her measurements. Remember that she only turned 16 about a month before she first arrived in Inaba, and we're heading into seriously creepy territory.
- Not so much horrific as depressing, but in Rise's Social Link, she mentions a girl who became a fan of hers after Risette took part in an anti-bullying campaign, and that the girl has been sending Rise letters ever since telling her how she's going to try to make friends & that she won't let bullies get to her anymore. Come Golden & the new epilogues to the Investigation Team's Social Links, Rise tells the protagonist that she received another letter from that girl, telling her that she's not going to be a Risette fan anymore because her friends told they wouldn't be friends anymore unless she stopped liking Risette. The poor girl was bullied into abandoning something that clearly meant a lot to her.
- Teddie's disappearance was due to him deciding he was useless for being unable to prevent Nanako's death. He essentially lost his will to live and committed suicide.
- The reason Kanji got a nosebleed with Yukiko and Chie but not Rise? Simple, they were high up on a mountain. Higher altitude means lower air pressure and that can lead to nosebleeds.
- Or, if you choose to interpret him that way, consider that Kanji wasn't looking at the girls, but the guys, when he got the nosebleed.
- Ai Ebihara wears a pink choker around her neck against school rules, right? Well... during her Social Link she reveals that she made a Love Confession to a boy in Middle School only to be cruelly rejected. When she finds out her crush (Kuo or Daisuke) has feelings for Chie / isn't interested in dating, she tries to throw herself off the school. Who's to say that she didn't try before?
- Just a thought, but imagine if, after Dojima discovered the warning later, you actually showed him how you can enter the TV. When Nanako gets kidnapped, he would probably order you to take him into the TV world with you to save her. Which then begs the question. We've seen shadows of teenagers and a shadow that's awakened to human emotions, all of whom have serious psychological issues on top of typical teenage angst. One of those shadows was able to become invincible and would've killed everyone if Teddie didn't go bear-serk. Teddie states that children can't have shadows, while Adachi and Namatame never really faced their shadows, but were instead granted powers by Izanami. What kind of Shadow could someone like Dojima, angry and guilt-ridden as he is, create? How powerful would it be? Could it even be fought?
- When you do the Athletes social link, you do either Kou or Daisuke depending on which team you joined and if you complete it, you help them through their problems. What that means, of course, is that one of them will be left out in the cold and will still be dealing their problems.
- Adding onto the above, this is essentially the fate of any social link you choose not to max or pursue. In some cases, where issues are relatively minor, it won't matter, but in more extreme cases, such as the Dojimas' family problem, it means you're leaving that person to probably never face their problems, which will most likely get worse.
- Interspersed with all the fantasy elements, the game has some pretty hefty doses of real life Adult Fear.
- There's an unidentified serial killer running loose through town, who's already claimed two victims and whom the police are powerless to stop. Because he's on the force himself.
- Junes is seriously threatening the businesses and livelihoods of many in the shopping district, to the point where it's practically splitting up families and making some fall into nihilism.
- Several teenagers around town vanish over the course of a year, potentially for weeks at a time, depending on the player's actions. What must their families have been thinking?
- Chisato was killed in a hit-and-run on her way to pick her daughter up from nursery school and wasn't found until several hours later. Nanako was waiting there all that time, with no clue what had happened. Her own father also lied and told her it was just an accident.
- Without his wife around, Dojima has no idea how to raise Nanako, believing himself to not be a worthy father. Instead, he devotes his time to trying to find his wife's killer despite so few leads. He keeps his distance, breaks promises, gets drunk, works overnight, and keeps telling himself that she'll understand one day.
- Nanako thinks the distance, lack of pictures, and constant broken promises mean her own father hates her and her mom, or that he doesn't consider her his real daughter. Later, she's also the victim of another kidnapping and actually fucking dies, though his is only temporary if the player makes the right choice.
- Mitsuo commits a copycat murder for no other reason than he wants attention and proof of his existence.
- Imagine what must've been going through Naoto's head when she saw the smoke from Dojima's car crash.
- Rise's cooking is so spicy, it KO's Yukiko with one spoonful. Yukiko's Persona is resistant/immune to fire.
- So you've been taken to the police station and your uncle refuses to believe your story about Personas and your ability to enter television sets. If only there was a television set in the interrogation room that you could use to prove your ability... All he'd have to do is stick his hand in...
- Or, y'know, one in the living room where you first told him this story.
- I don't think Dojima was about to let him go on that demonstration. In fact, he probably might have thought he was a bit crazy with the whole story.
- Would have been a moot point anyways. Dojima was not about to let his nephew out of police custody while a suspected serial killer was gunning for him.
- When you think about it, it's a bit of Gameplay and Story Segregation designed to prevent the player from getting a bad ending based on stuff you have no way of knowing. If Dojima had been convinced of the TV World's existence, the first person he'd probably have told would be Adachi, giving him an excuse to know about the TV World and making his cover complete, and, since the MC has no reason to suspect Adachi at this point, he has no reason to stop Dojima from doing so. Considering that the only way the IT catches Adachi was to trick him into a I Never Said It Was Poison slip-up, giving him an excuse to know about the TV World would make it nigh-impossible to prove he was the killer. Since the player has no way of knowing s/he'd be trapped in an unwinnable situation, you're railroaded into a bit of Cutscene Incompetence for the sake of a better game.
- Mitsuo Kubo: How did he get in the TV? It's established that he never threw Morooka into the Midnight Channel, so how did he get in? He seemed to be there on his own will, what with the whole "Come find me" deal. Also established above is the fact that he can't have a Persona (or enter the TV willingly), since he had a shadow, so how did he get there in the first place?
- Said inconsistency is actually a bit of Fridge Brilliance and Foreshadowing. The real killer will later confess that Mitsuo was pushed into the TV World to throw the Investigation Team off the right trail, and so that the 'game' wouldn't come to a premature end by Mitsuo taking all the credit for the killer's crimes. Note that in P4 Ultimax, the killer helps the IT because he doesn't want Sho's actions to lead into deaths that would reopen the case, the only legacy he has. The image of Mitsuo in the Midnight Channel taunting the I.T. came from his desire for notoriety and as a result of the I.T. wanting to pin the guilt on someone and be over with the murder case. Failing to realize that the Midnight Channel pretty much shows whatever the viewers want to see can lead the player to pick the wrong choices during December's events.
- Why does Rise's Persona have stats?
- Why do Rise's Persona's stats go down when you max out her Social Link?
- To prevent glitches if someone hacked the game to give the MC her persona. IIRC, the MC has unused voice clips for the other character's persona's for the same reason.
- If you rescue your party members as soon as possible, they've spent only about 1 day in the hostile environment of the TV world, but need approximately 2 weeks to "recover". If you rescue them on the last possible day, they've spent said 2 weeks in the hostile environment of the TV world, but are perfectly fine and fully recovered the next day.
- Gameplay and Story Segregation. The plot is designed to move forward on certain days, hence, if you've rescued the character in a timely manner, the game gives you the opportunity to work on Social Links, work, etc in the meantime to make sure you don't fall behind. Alternatively, if you waited until the last few days to rescue the character, the developers assumed that you procrastinated in order to strengthen your S. Links beforehand. Either way, it balances out perfectly.
- Perhaps it's not simply the environment of the TV world but what you do there that's the problem. Presumably, victims would spend their first few days in the TV world panicking, despairing, running away from the scary-looking monsters, desperately trying to find their way out, &c. They'd probably be in pretty bad shape if you rescued them right then. By the time they've spent a couple of weeks there, they've probably figured out that the monsters won't attack them, that trying to find a way out is a waste of time and energy, and probably spend their days sleeping and trying to kill time. They'd be a lot better rested at that point, even if they'd been resting in the TV World.
- Why is Adachi the most significant player in Izanami's game when Namatame was the one behind most of the kidnappings and the player was off actually leveling up and using his persona.
- Easy. Because without him, Namatame wouldn't kidnap people (he was tricked into doing it, IIRC) and throw them into the TV. And if there are no people in the TV, the player wouldn't need to save anyone from the shadows. Basically, Adachi starts the game.
- Why does Izanagi want to make sure that his crotch is well guarded◊?
- Why is the forecast on Christmas eve still endless fog even if you already banished all fog and restored a blue skies days ago? It's not like they can't revise forecasts.
- The stories told in Atlus games are usually very tight and coherent, so it was rather disappointing for this troper to realize that the murder mystery actually falls apart into nonsense towards the end. For almost the entire game you operate under the assumption that people who appear as silhouettes on the Midnight Channel are going to get thrown into a TV. Then you find out at the last minute that the Midnight Channel actually shows people that everyone in the town wants to know more about. And the fact that the first two people to appear on the Channel were also the two that were murdered is one hundred percent coincidence. Yet without that coincidence Namatame would never have gone on his kidnapping spree, and the vast majority of the game's plot would never have happened.
- Maybe this will help: Adachi killed Mayumi and her body appeared hanging from a TV antenna. Who found Mayumi's body? Saki. That's what made her popular. Saki left school early and found Mayumi's corpse, thus sparking an interest in her. Adachi wanted to know if Saki had seen anything important. When he made romantic advances at her and she turned him down, Adachi pushed her into the TV too out of spite. So if Saki hadn't found Mayumi's body, it would have been someone else. Either way, Adachi would have pursued them to see what they knew. They would have shown up on the Midnight Channel because everyone would want to know more about the person. Besides, they both Mayumi and Saki were killed by the same person, so it's not really a coincidence like Morooka's murder was.
- The problem is that the victims weren't chosen based on what the Midnight Channel showed. The part with Saki is somewhat justifiable. But Mayumi? Adachi didn't target her for murder. Her death was essentially an accident. Adachi just happened to be assigned to her detail. He became interested in her only because she was near him, for his own reasons, not for the reason that everyone else was interested in her. And that's what the Midnight Channel is all about, what everyone is interested in. The Midnight Channel showed the image of a scandal-embroiled newscaster, because that's what everyone was interested in knowing more about. Adachi was interested in nothing more than a hot piece of ass. And that's why it was a coincidence.
- Except he wasn't assigned to her detail, because she didn't actually have one; it was a ruse he made up to be able to get access to her. He already had a crush on her from her TV appearances. Being able to flash a badge and have people trust that he really is on police business is something he abuses in both Mayumi and Saki's cases.
- To be fair there was always going to be some coincidence involved, since you'd only work out you can stick a hand into TVs in a fairly unusual set of circumstances.
- Plots, in any kind of medium, typically start, and are move forward, by coincidences. Isn't it a coincidence that the MC came to Inaba right as the murders started? Isn't it a coincidence that he went to Inaba at all instead of some other town? Isn't it a coincidence that his parents have jobs that necessitate moving around a lot in the first place? Hell, isn't it a coincidence that the parents of any of the in-game characters conceived children?! Random events that happen to line up in a way that happens make a story, is what makes it a story, and not just a list of events.
- We don't have any reason to believe that Mayumi was the first person to be shown on the Midnight Channel. The rumor of the Midnight Channel was obviously around long before the game started, and, rather than showing someone their "soul mate" it instead showed them people they were interested in. Given that Mayumi was embroiled in controversy at the time, most of the people in town were curious about her. That the Midnight Channel predicts the next victim was just a conclusion that the group comes to after just two examples. Beyond the second attack, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
- Actually, we never find out why the murderer is specifically obsessed with Mayumi. Perhaps it was because that person saw Mayumi on the Midnight Channel, which supposedly showed your soulmate ... which would mean everything was caused by the Midnight Channel in the end after all.
- The fact that it was all a coincidence was the point. The game's major theme is that most of humanity's minds are clouded by a fog of deception and this applies to everyone involved in the murder case as well. As Izanami put it, Namatame "had not eyes to see the truth" and so failed to properly awaken to his power. This doesn't just apply to his belief that he was "saving" people, but to the whole series of events that led to him being involved. He saw Mayumi on The Midnight Channel, then she died. He saw Saki on The Midnight Channel, then she died. As humans often do, he read a meaning into the pattern where no actual meaning existed and thus, convinced himself that anyone who appeared on The Midnight Channel must be in danger. The Investigation Team falls into this as well, convincing themselves that The Midnight Channel predicts the next victim. Neither side has the benefit of knowing the full truth of the Midnight Channel, so they end up chasing after an illusion instead. This is the kind of self-deception that the MC overcomes in the True Ending.
- IIRC, we only have Izanami's word that that's how the Midnight Channel actually works, and given that she's trying to prove a point about humanity, it makes sense that she might overemphasize humanity's role in things and downplay her own (and her minions'). For all we know, she might have been putting people on the Midnight Channel based on her own interpretation of what (and who) people wanted to know about and trying to pass it off as all humanity's fault.
- Thought of this while replaying. In the opening scenes in the game, we see Protagonist having a flashback to when he was about to transfer. The entire classroom sounds disappointed so that would suggest that he's already popular. So how come he doesn't have any friends at the start (as in, what would stop him from talking to his old friends if he had any) and why are his social stats so low?
- He could have been one of those super popular people no one really knows in the end. A bunch of acquaintances who surrounded him, said they were friends but really, if the manga is to be believe, he spends all his time travelling. Why would he try to get close to people? Plus, he does quickly make friends in the end.
- Think of it like this; the stats are not permanent. Every time a person moves to a new environment with new people and new experiences, he/she must adapt to it entirely from the beginning - hence the reduction of the stats. Once a person gets to know and understand the people around him/her, the stats grow again (though this doesn't explain the knowledge stat, though one may handwave this by defining exactly what "knowledge" might entail - it might be more than just being school-smart). As for his old friends, it's suggested in the manga that because he's been moving so much from place to place due to his parents, he hasn't made any lasting friendships with anyone - take that how you will.
- Here's a potential explanation for the Knowledge stat. In October, the team will have a group study session where Yosuke asks Naoto for study help. The latter declined, saying that she being a first year high school student, would know nothing of second year material. That's basically what happened to the main character at the start of the game.
- It makes sense if you think of how Personas work. The main character is The Fool, which means he can change his Persona at will. But personas aren't just the big magical archetypical figures you use to fight in Dungeons. According to Jung, the Persona is a constructed self, a personality that you wear like a mask in order to deal with life and function in society. The fact that he can change his so fluidly suggests that the protagonist is really good at putting up facades. Add to this the fact that his parents moved around so much, it sort of makes sense that he'd be popular but distant and disengaged.
- How in the world did no one ever notice a bunch of high-schoolers jumping in and out of TV in the middle of an at least reasonably busy department store? Sure, they may have waited until no one was around before jumping in, but then how would they know when it's safe to jump back? Even if no one was around, there must have been some surveillance footage...
- They were probably lucky not to be noticed those times. In Persona 4 Arena however, Aigis' storyline revealed that after dealing with their case, both they and the Shadow Operatives came out of the TV right in the middle of a crowd. Whether or not they were seen actually coming out of the TV is not stated, but their presence alone was enough for a public spectacle that they decided to make a run for it right then and there.
- Considering that Golden has a lot of Personae switch arcana to make way for Aeon and Jester/Hunger, why didn't Mother Harlot move to Jester/Hunger? She is what's depicted on the Hunger arcana card after all.
- Mother Harlot would've had to have been given a major stat redesign to be in the Hunger Arcana - because she is the depiction she'd naturally have to be given the best stats out of that Arcana. Also, some people would prefer the Evil Counterpart to Izanagi to be the Ultimage Persona of that Arcana as it's an Inverted Tarot to the Fool.
- Same reason why Amaterasu is High Priestess and not Sun. The Persona doesn't always match the tarot for some reason.
- It's an important plot point in the game that the place where you appear in the TV world depends on where you entered from in the real world. It's why the team always enters from Junes, so they'll come out near Teddie. But then, near the end of the game, Namatame kidnaps Nanako and throws her in the TV, drives halfway across town, then jumps in the TV himself. Yet they both end up in the same place! (Or at least close enough for them to find each other without special powers or Teddie's fog glasses.) What the heck?
- could be that not the Place but the TV itself is of importance there. Could also be that the whole "same TV" theory is nonsense. Remember, they never actually tried to enter through a different TV, so they dont know if it leads elsewhere.
- It's expressly stated that jumping in from any TV could land you anywhere in the Midnight Channel which is highly dangerous. While there are fixed locations the group refuses to risk going in through any other TV but the one at Junes because they could land either in a swarm of Shadows or in a dungeon they haven't yet explored. Also, Namatame used the same TV to kidnap all his victims but they all disappeared to different places. He kidnapped Nanako at the house while the TV was now crashed down the mains street of Inaba.
- While extremely unlikely to be intentional, it's still fun to think about: in a game about kids investigating the world that exists inside of televisions, what is the name of the spell you'd almost certainly use more than any other throughout? Media.
- Rise's Shadow Self is an Attention Whore stripper that has a fractal mirror for a face. Her Persona, however, has a satellite for a face, extending several feet past its head. What's special about this? The fact that because of the shape of its head it can never look at itself.This can be related both to how
Rise has grown as a person in contrast to her Shadow's traits.
- This idea come after a few years. But "Nana"is another way of pronouncing the of the Japanese word "七". Now think about it, who is the seventh victim to be thrown into the TV World? The one after Mayumi Yamano, Saki Konishi, Yukiko Amagi, Kanji Tasumi, Rise Kujikawa, & Naoto Shirogane?