The blind bags are part of the toyline that drives the My Little Pony franchise (My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic and its toyline influence each other), while the trading cards are (as far as I can tell) merely licensed merchandise (the show influences them, but they don't influence the show), so I'd think that the toyline still has priority.

I'm more in favor of the cards, since they directly reference the show itself, and Hasbro still had to sign off on the trademarks. On the other hand, it's no secret that the toyline (while still important) has a rather odd relationship with the show itself in terms of what does and doesn't get adapted (Applejack's truck being the classic example).

Though in any case, them releasing a blind bag that uses one name and then releasing a card that uses a completely different name for the same character so soon afterwards implies that there's something rather complicated going on...

Edited by LanceOmikron

She is.

I could see there being one page for the Recurring Extras and another page for the One-Scene Wonders.

Should Analysis.Friendship Is Magic-Background Ponies be split to match, or stay as a single page?

Edited by Whatshisgame

Your call. It's nowhere near big enough to be problematic. I'd split this one myself but I've only watched one pony episode.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

I've actually been thinking of reorganizing the character pages in general. They've been restricted by the original folder names before the page was, well, split into page. I might make a post about it on the main character page discussion page...place thing, or just the Western Animation My Little Pony thread.

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Annnd I made that thread. About this page though...

I think one of the main problems with this page is we have a few walls of texts that are useless or not very helpful. Orion / Star Hunter has this huge description... I still don't know who its talking about. Is it two different characters or what? Either it needs to be cut down to something more readable or purged.

Also if we're going to quote stuff from the cards/toy descriptions its probably best to leave it out of the main description and keep it under an All There in the Manual trope if its really necessary information. We have a few cases of redundant information like in Lyra Heartstrings's entry (the whole "Sings & plays all day" stuff).

Also, what can we remove from this page? I think a case can be made that Flitter, Cloudchaser, Thunderlane, and Rumble might count as One Shots for "Hurricane Fluttershy" as they do recur throughout the episode, play some part in the plot, and aren't just a "visual joke" like in Roid Rage's case. That, and I'm curious if we really need the non-ponies section on the Background Ponies page (don't know where we'd move it, but its something to consider).

I think we should try to resolve these issues before going straight to splitting the page. Cut down on walls of text and irrelevant information, remove redundant information, see what can be moved off the page.

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Here's my suggestion/recommendation/contribution. Any modifications, suggestions, questions and/or thoughts are welcome.

I'm going to construct a blueprint for the new background ponies page based on Calnos' planned character page blueprint.

Color Meaning: page, sub-page, folder/content, character list

• Shared Tropes
  • Each page must have this when there's a shared trope that applies specifically to their group.
  • If a higher tier Shared section already contains the trope then it is no longer necessary to add that trope to the sub-group.
    • Instead the existing trope should be modified to include the information.
    • Exceptions to this rule includes any character specific information.

• Background Ponies - The hub page for background ponies. Mostly contains general shared tropes and links to its sub-pages.
  • Recurring Extras - Non-essential background extras.
    • Earth Ponies
    • Pegasus Ponies
    • Unicorn Ponies
  • Special Ponies
    • No longer includes: Fleur de Lis / Elizabeth (One Episode Characters), Truffle Shuffle (Children), The Imperfect Stallions (One Episode Characters?),
    • Special Purpose Ponies - Essential background extras. Not to be confused with the upcoming "Supporting Cast" and "One Episode Characters" character pages.
      • Includes: Derpy Hooves, the flower trio, the nurse ponies, the spa ponies, octavia (and her band), vinyl scratch, flitter, couldchaser, Thunderlane, Blossomforth, Wild Fire, The Imperfect Stallions(?)
    • Unique Ponies - Non-essential background extras with Non-Standard Character Design.
      • Includes: Mr. Greenhooves, Holly Dash, Screwball, My Little Lebowski, Mr. Waddle (and other old pony extras), Roid Rage / Mr. McLargehuge / Horse Power / Snowflake, the bowler ponies (Allie Way and that chubby one. Not sure what her name was.)

Edited by ArfArkFace

I'm tempted to just chunk the Special Ponies section altogether and just group everyone up by race/gender and maybe age, but that might look a tad messy.

What makes a background pony "essential" or not? Derpy and the Flower Trio are still used as regular Recurring Extras. The original purpose of the "Special Ponies" folder was to group up all the background ponies that only show up for a single scene or two like Vinyl Scratch and the Spa Ponies.

Perhaps spiting them into "Job Ponies" (background extras that clearly have a job like the Nurse and Spa ponies and show up when needed for those scenes) and "Single Scene Ponies" (background extras that ever only show up once, maybe twice, like Screwball or the Big Lebowski ponies) might be better.

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Yeah, "essential" shouldn't be the word I should be using. Maybe something less than essential but more than insignificant.

Well, I used the word "essential" on that post to mean that they are involved and/or have participated. Not as significant as the supporting cast or one episode characters but they have been or are involved nonetheless. Like they have their own thing and such. Like it's always them when a certain thing is going on or is happening. Jobs are but a small fraction. Some ponies don't even have a recurring job but they have something else. Like being clumsy or being a "Where's Waldo?" type character in Derpy's case or being the first ponies to get scared in the flower ponies' case.

In short what I meant was:

• Special Purpose Ponies = Special Purpose Ponies. That's it. Not just jobs but also roles. Recurring ones.
• Unique Ponies = Ponies that don't like any other pony.

I think we should not worry about section and folder organization for now. For now we should focus more on the division stage. More specifically the division between the regular background ponies and the special background ponies.

Let's see... Oh yeah. Remember in the main character discussion page when I said ponies that do not fit in one category should have a redirect link to other pages? Maybe we should use it here too. This system is already being implemented to some characters (Like Baeburn, Applebloom and Sweetie Belle) so why not other characters too? There seems to be background ponies out there that serves as a double purpose of being a crowd filler and a gag scene participant. Question now is where do we put the their main entry?

• I see that, alone, each member of the flower ponies serves as your typical background character but when they're together (or at least most of them) they do their Running Gag. So perhaps their individual names should be in the Recurring Extras and their group should be in the Special Ponies page.
• Now for the Derpy character. She's obviously a gag character (now) with a pretty consistent role in the show and since most tropes about her are all about her gag scenes and her merchandise, she belongs to the special ponies page. But since she started out as a background character and her model is still being used as a non-gag scene crowd filler, a redirect link on the Recurring Extra should also be created.

"Job ponies" and "One Scene Ponies" seems restricting as the title implies that only ponies with jobs (job ponies) and ponies that have only appeared once (One Scene Ponies) are allowed. Any other special pony that does not fit any of those are left out. But let's not go ahead of ourselves. For now they shall remain as one group. The group that they are already a part of.

Edited by ArfArkFace

I forgot about the Other Ponies folder... I guess we should just leave it there. It's not like it's as large as the other folders, yet.

Here is v2.0. If nobody here has anything else to say within 24 hours or so then I will start the division process based on this blueprint.

Color Meaning: page, sub-page, section, folder, Content

• Background Ponies
  • Shared Tropes - Will be converted into its own sub-page when it reaches critical mass.
  • Common Ponies
    • Mares
      • Description
      • Earth Ponies
      • Pegasus Ponies
      • Unicorn Ponies
    • Stallions
      • Description
      • Character List - Will be expanded like the Mares section when it reaches critical mass.
    • Colts and Fillies - Will remain here until Calnos or someone else uses his plan to make a Children/etc. characters page.
      • Description
      • Character List - Will be expanded like the Mares section when it reaches critical mass.
  • Special Ponies
    • Description
    • Character List - Will be divided into smaller sections or folders when it reaches critical mass.
  • Other Ponies
    • Description
    • Shared Tropes / Character List
  • Non-Ponies - Will remain here until someone decides to make a Non-Pony characters page.
    • Description
    • Character List
  Edit: Changed Foal to Colts and Fillies

  Edit #2: The deed is done, though with slight variations to the original plan.

Edited by ArfArkFace

I agree. Specific information should be under the character in question. The shared folder should be used for general information. That way, readers who are looking for information for a specific character or group would find it more conveniently by just going to the character or group's section/sub-section rather than having to browse through the large wall of text that is the current shared folder.

I also agree (I've actually thought about that before, but never got around to doing anything about it). Quite a few ponies have hardly any tropes listed in their own entries; this would fix that.

If someone wants to go through the trouble of editing it, I don't see why not. I'd rather keep the image itself here though. They're background ponies most fans are familiar with, and we're not gonna get all of them unless some crazy fan goes through the trouble of putting them all in one big picture.

If you're looking for a picture for the background analysis page, maybe some fanart that actually shows off some sort of fanon concept (the "I emptied your fridge" panel, for example) might be better than just a nice picture of well known bg ponies.

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Okay, you know what? I'm thinking about deleting the character entries that have only one or two tropes attached to them. If they don't have anything noteworthy, then why the hell are they even listed? If anyone objects, please say so.

EDIT: My mistake, they all have at least one trope, but their entries are not long enough to justify their gigantic gifs.

Are they actually relevant enough to warrant entries?

Edited by PDL

What I did was make entries for the rest of the most common mares (the fan-favorites aren't the only common ones); I hadn't expected them to all suddenly get pictures before their entries got big enough for pictures to fit.

EDIT: Should the too-big pictures be removed, and re-added once the respective pony's entry grows big enough to fit it?

Edited by Whatshisgame

If they can be made smaller, then that would be better. If Derpy is able to get a gif that's small enough, then it shouldn't be a problem to get the others to a similar size.

Yeah, shrinking the big images sounds like a good idea.

It is done.

Han Shot First.

Just mention that her name was originally planned to be Ditzy Doo and maybe change the folder title to "Derpy Hooves/Ditzy Doo", like it was before "The Last Roundup".

In the end, does it really matter if a name or specific spelling is "canon"? I see people keep using that word, like we're not allowed to refer to a character by a Fan Nickname ever. At the end of the day most people call the grey pegasus Derpy or Ditzy, and Rainbow Dash called her Derpy in "The Last Roundup" before the redub.

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

That wiki's list of ponies can be sorted by first appearance, and one of their users is working on a list of character appearances. Neither of those lists are complete yet, but they should be helpful.

They are, and I've gotten the common mares, stallions, and fillies and colts down. Unfortunately, my schedule won't allow for the special ponies to have their debuts listed, so I hope someone else can do that.

Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.

Go ahead if you want. We don't have any rules that a pony has to be "popular enough" for an entry. He'd go under Special Ponies since he was used for a gag.

Matter of fact it might not be a bad idea to make a shared entry for all the "potential stallions" from the episode (excluding the Common guys like Caramel and the Good Doctor), since someone went and added mentions of a lot of them in the Other Ponies section.

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

Added an entry for 'em!

It feels weird, to have her as a Minor character. I'm afraid that now that she has a speaking role and an official name, her popularity among bronies will drop.

Unironic Irony

who149: I'm afraid that now that she has a speaking role and an official name, her popularity among bronies will drop.

I'm not sure why you'd think that...

But anyways, I'm also wondering if we can promote Derpy to Minor Character. And if not, how much more significant does she have to become before we can?

I think the main requirement for "Minor Character" is that they're actually someone important or plot significant in the show. Cheerilee is the CMC's teacher and serves as Ms. Exposition a couple of times. The Mayor is, well, the Mayor. Zecora had an entire episode about her. Derpy, even in "The Last Roundup" is only used for visual gags or crowd filler.

That, and I really don't want to get rid of that sweet piece of fanart and all the Derpy-related info on the Analysis page.

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@ Calnos: What about Pony Joe? He got all of two lines, appeared very briefly, and his only real purpose was to play the bartender for an I'll Tell You When I've Had Enough! joke with Spike. Yet he's clearly more than just a background pony, and is on the minor characters page. There are are other characters like this as well. If they qualify, I don't see why Derpy doesn't.

Also, I personally don't think we'd have to get rid of the fanart and the info on the analysis page. Just put a note in them saying that Derpy has moved on to bigger and better things. ^_^

Pony Joe was on this page for a while, as were the Flower Trio and Royal Guards, it is kind of a blurry line and this issue gives me a headache every time.

I think it'd be helpful to rename the "Minor Characters" page as "Supporting Characters" as that what Cheerliee, Zecora, and the Mayor are. Before we had separate pages, the family members were also under the Minor Characters folder (I think it was I myself who put the family members off in their own folder if I recall correctly). It doesn't matter how popular she is, she's not on the same level of importance as Cheerilee, Zecora, etc. I'd argue Pony Joe and the Flower Trio should be back here, but we've been over that and I don't want to start another cross-page Edit War.

Most people associate Derpy as a background pony even if she's become an Ascended Extra. And think about this... do you really want to separate her from Carrot Top, Dinky, Doctor Whoof, and the others?

EDIT: If nothing else, we could put a note on her entry here saying that for all intents and purposes she's less of a background pony now but it just seems wrong to separate her from her friends here.

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

I certainly don't want to move Derpy and if moved I will move her back.

She is an honorary background pony whatever happens in show barring something dramatic like promotion to the mane cast, along with the rest of the "other Mane Six" who should be on this page barring almost anything. Because this page is really about documenting the fandom love of random ponies so meta-thematically Derpy belongs here. Because she's only promoted from sheer force of fandom love.

I am thinking about resurrecting my idea to resort her into her own folder though. That would seem more appropriate now.

"I am thinking about resurrecting my idea to resort her into her own folder though. That would seem more appropriate now."

This is a good idea, actually. Derpy may still be considered a background character, but she definitely doesn't quite fit with Lyra and Bonbon and the like any more. I'm going to go ahead and split her off. (If someone disagrees, just change it back and post here.)

Edited by Unknownlight

Perhaps we should make two separate entries: One for the Canon!Derpy and one for the Fanon!Derpy since their portrayal is probably going to be quite different from the fandom's portrayal.

I think a better idea would just be to move all the information on Fanon Derpy to the analysis page (where it's supposed to be, anyway) instead of splitting Derpy up into two entries.

Edited by Unknownlight

More like re-adding than moving, since the regular entry is already limited to official and semi-official portrayals. But yeah, the Analysis page is where completely unofficial stuff goes.

Separating fanon from canon on this particular page is a bit silly. Its why the page exists at all, look no further then the names. People aren't really looking at this page for the microscopic canon parts but for what the fandom has done with them. Its a page really about documenting fandom love for random ponies. So the entries should touch on the major bits of fanon for a character that you'd encounter. Obviously briefly as is mostly the case.

Really the page is functionally fine as it is right now.

And seriously if anything the show has shown its more willing to throw the fanon in as opposed to jossing it. We have no way to know though until it actually happens. Unless there is some serious problem I'm not aware of with the entry, then there's really no need to fix what isn't broken.

This page exists because the background ponies are popular, not for documenting fanon. These pages used to be character folders before the main page got broken down into subpages. It was originally just "Derpy Hooves/Ditzy Doo" and "Other", and the list started growing from there.

The analysis page is for documenting fanon. The reason we made it is because we had too many "fanon tropes" and a character page is suppose to be for how a character is in a work (in this case the show, and I guess the toys by extension but hardly anyone cares about them). We use the Fan Nicknames because otherwise most of the entries would be titled "Green unicorn with lyre cutie mark", "Brown earth pony with hourglass cutie mark", etc. Granted mentioning in the description some random fanon tidbit, like Dinky being regarded as Derpy's daughter, is ok, but we can't list "Hot Mom" in Derpy's section because the show doesn't show her having any kids (yet).

Its also a slippery slope. If we made an exception for this page, what's stopping us from moving up the list? Besides, plenty of tropes apply to them in the show (if that wasn't obvious already).

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And what's popular about them is all pretty much fanon. Again like I said there's nothing broke with the rough current balance. What I'm saying is that we'd be remiss in the ultimate purpose of a wiki (to inform) if we put a hard fast line between canon and fanon. Because those would be the sort of names we'd have to use.

I'd object to Derpy being listed as a Hot Mom even if Dinky and Derpy canonized. Because Derpy uses the standard pony model, as opposed to if Fleur De Lis had a foal. Or maybe Derpy became a fashion model in canon after confirmation of the relationship. Something. So probably not the best example but I do take your point and like I said the page isn't broke right now. However if someone wanted to add say Red Eyes to Vinyl which is so common its found at the top of the same page to name just one example then provided there was a brief explanation it wouldn't be terrible

As for slippery slope I challenge you to find another case of a series with an entire page worth of Ensemble Dark Horse/Memetic Bystanders that run on Fan Nicknames and have mostly fanon interpretations or is otherwise remotely similar. Other series run about one per series, while this show has how many now? And has an Internet Hive Mind that takes efforts to dub a new background pony within in hours of them appearing. So ponies are at least to my knowledge pretty unique. But if somebody wanted to trope out say Figwit on the Lot R film character pages it then I'd be all for it in the spirit of There Is No Such Thing As Notability. Which doesn't mean that every little detail some one has thought up needs to be noted either.

As for the rest of the pony pages, well what keeps those ponies off here is that they have canon characterization to begin. There are still cases where its appropriate to note in some way, like Trollestia being mentioned as Celestia's nickname despite minimal canon support for the behavior.

Edited by gs

I support moving the Royal Guards to Minor Characters, because of their role in "A Bird in the Hoof".

EDIT: There wasn't any objection, so I went ahead and moved them.

Edited by Whatshisgame

It's already noted in the "Tropes shared by most of them" folder, in the hottip in the second bullet point under All There in the Manual ("filenames on Hasbro and/or The Hub's websites").

Derpy was also called by name on Hasbro's official facebook page reported by EqD so on top of the problems with Ditzy Doo the assorted staff mentions up to and include Lauren Faust charity art auction.... we can stick a fork in this one because its done.

Derpy was called by name on The Hub's Facebook and Twitter pages, not Hasbro's. But yeah, plenty of official and semi-official sources have used that name, unlike Ditzy.

EDIT: Whaddaya know, the name "Derpy" WAS used by Hasbro's MLP page, way back in July!

Edited by Whatshisgame

I think the category still holds up which is the best reason to keep them together, they fit a common mode of thought in the show and while they may have different roles they don't have enough impact or unique status (contrast Derpy) to have more folders making more sense here. Octavia and Vinyl though often paired by fans don't have any real connection other then taking a broad swath of "music" and are very different jobs and any other categories would be even more broad.

If there's a modification it would be to boot some of them to Minor Characters, a page which could also use a bit of description on who belongs there other then "lol Misc." which isn't paraphrasing much. Someone like the Royal Guards for example do have a measurable impact on the plot by looking for Philamena panicking Twilight. Sure they are an unnamed group but that's still a plot impact and the sports pegasi from Cloudsdale are on minor characters. Likewise the Flower Trio have ranked up a little, their conversation with Spike leads to town wide panic in Cutie Pox.

Ultimately background ponies to me implies what "extra" would in a movie which doesn't hold up for someone like Pony Joe or the flower trio where if this were a movie they would have a cast member credit at the end. If they have actual dialogue and aren't used in disposable manner (contrast Bon Bon/Doctor Whooves who have lines but could still be switched for any pony) then they would be minor characters while a lot of characters on Minor Characters right now would be more properly labelled Supporting Characters though I don't think we'd need a separate page for the range.

Also doing this would make it crystal clear where someone like Hayseed Turnip Truck goes. I noticed nobody seems to have troped him yet. Right now I suspect if I added him to minor characters some one would bump around like seems have happened to Pony Joe and the Royal Guards, possibly back and forth. It seems like the huge Fanon love for the background ponies has distorted Tropers perceptions of actual being a in-show character, which even someone as specific as Derpy and Vinyl still aren't from the show's story perspective and vastly outranked by say Pony Joe.

The Flower Trio is always hard to categorize, since Daisy is a common background pony while Rose and Lily only appear in scenes featuring the trio...

My instinctive way to handle this would without 'subtraction' like that implies. Daisy being used as a background pony does not change a distinct in-show characterization emerging. Cheerilee for example was first used as a background pony in a couple of places but obviously is now a supporting character if they used her model again for a background pony its doesn't change that. If we grant that for example having a meaningful if minor dialogue with Spike (along with their other speaking/named roles) is enough to establish 'character' versus 'filler' then it doesn't go away and still makes more sense to go in minor characters, because they've become minor characters.

I would simply note Ascended Extra for Daisy while kicking her and the trio to Minor Characters. And if we keep seeing her in the background post Cutie Pox we can edit it to Ascended Extra/Demoted to Extra or such.

I think we could create categories 'til AJ brings the cows in and not have perfect categories for every pony. However I think the page benefits from keeping itself to extras and visual device ponies who only get their characterization from fans

Edited by gs

Speaking of the cows, are they really background characters? They were pretty important to the beginning of "Applebuck Season".

I'm kinda surprised the cows are listed at all, but at the same time not. Yeah given how they are used I'm don't think they fit this page.

I've a mind to kick them and the sheep to animal companions (technically they "belong" to AJ by evidence) in an "Other Animals" folder that we can throw for example Tank's competitors into.

And kick the Mule to minor characters or special (he's presumably half pony) and eliminate the entire category.

Edited by gs

She's still being used for crowd scenes. She was in the stands doing nothing special (and no derp eyes) in "Sisterhooves Social", in "Mare do Well" her "derp eyes gag" was part of a crowd scene and you could see the back of her head in Rarity's song in "Sweet and Elite". That, and she's pretty common. She's been in most of the Season 2 episodes so far!

Giving Derpy her own folder might not be a bad idea, though. She's certainty the most well known background pony and the one the show's staff pays attention to the most as far as we know. In fact she originally did have her own folder if I recall, when the character page was originally split (there were less ponies on this page then.)

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The problem with the common is that the other commons can be sorted together because they really are used commonly to fill out scenes as needed. Its not unusual to see multiple Lyras or Colgates in a crowd shot. The common ponies are only really characters to the fandom, they're used as extras hence "Lyra" being Incidental Unicorn #2.

To my knowledge this no longer happens with Derpy even in her less zany cameos we just see one of her. I don't think it has to be the obvious playing around seen with the chicken coop gag or filly version to still be a scripted appearance.

If she originally had a folder then it makes even more sense to me given her fairly unique standing next to every other pony on the page.

Maybe we should set up a levels of canon system like Star Wars has.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

Yeah, right now it's just all-or-nothing "no quotes around name = canon name, double quotes around name = fanon name."

Perhaps we should have three levels: names from the show (no quotes), names from the Expanded Universe or The Merch ('single quotes'), and Fan Nicknames ("double quotes").

But if we do that, how would we classify names from Word of God (like Mr. and Mrs. Cake's first names or the Diamond Dogs' individual names), seeing as God Does Not Own This World?

I've decided to go ahead and try something new with the names - Fan Nickname links if they don't have an in-show name, the in-show name if they do. People will know if its a Fan Nickname if anyone was confused by the quotation marks, and its a little cleaner to read. If no one likes this setup we can change it back or change it to something else.

As far as "canon level" goes, obviously the show is first, but G4 Ponies currently don't have much of an "Expanded Universe", at least not in the way we (or at least I) are used to. Transformers, to use another Hasbro property, has comic books (as in actual comic books done by professional comic book artists & writers), video games, and movies. Transformers War For Cybertron sets the backstory for Transformers Prime for example (apparently, I haven't played/watched it myself).

Currently Friendship is Magic's "Expanded Universe" consists of 3-5 page short comics with copy & paste promo vectors in little girls magazines, story books that also have copy & paste promo vectors, browser based mini-games, and an edutainment iOS app (supposedly Derpy with cross eyes makes a cameo in it, but I don't have an iPhone so I can't confirm it). Its, well, just not the same.

I guess this is what happens when something like My Little Pony hits Troper Critical Mass :P

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

More recently the source of the toy names has outright contradicted the show, producing a glitter unicorn with Trixe's cutie mark and a totally different name.

I mention since there's another case here with Caramel who I'm going to change to just Caramel for the titl. I think we can have a can agree that the official name can follow the show. Since the show is the topic of these pages so its final product it is the ultimate arbiter. Under this all the fanon nicknames, possible merch names, and what not are merely provisional for officially unnamed ponies as seen through the comment on Lyra.

Afterall the infamous Pinklestia toys isn't given any consideration because for show "canon" she is unambiguously white colored. So we have a precedent for utterly ignoring the toy line if it contradicts the show. Also the top of the page could use a note on the naming conventions

The contradicting names is a major reason why I think we shouldn't worry too much about the toy names. The show has a track record of not using them on the few occasions a background pony is given a name like Daisy and Caramel. There's a possible exception with Roseluck, but so far she's only been called Rose in the show.

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We had a discussion on this before I think. Its something of a blurry line between "Minor" and "Background" character, but I think the original reason given for Pony Joe being here is a lack of importance to the plot of the episode. He only shows up for a Drunk on Milk gag and there are other named characters that have interacted with the mane cast (Rose & Daisy, for example), and Cheerilee remained unnamed in the show until Season 2.

Perhaps this warrants redefining the line between Minor and Background character?

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What about Hayseed Turnip Truck? Is he a Minor or Background character?

She's got the same Cutie Mark, the same eye color, from what we can tell pretty much the same coat color, and she also has Multicolored Hair (in the art, at least).

It should be noted that the wave 4 blind bags are all glitter or solid color versions. We know Rainbow Dash isn't an all blue pony. That said, Minuette appears to be close enough that its probably suppose to be the same pony (at least to Hasbro). Same coat color and cutie mark and all.

Royal Riff though... His art shows him with purple coat color and a completely different cutie mark than Blues. How are they suppose to be the same pony, Big Mac Palette Swap aside? At least Noteworthy kinda looked like him!

I think it might be better to consider all the blind bag ponies expies of background ponies unless otherwise stated in the show, or at least they get a brushable toy and they have their own art like Lily Blossom.

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Royal Riff is purple in the art, but he's blue in the actual toys, and those have proven to be more show-accurate than the art (like with Heartstrings/Lyra and Flower Wishes/Daisy).

Comparing Noteworthy◊ to Royal Riff◊, Royal Riff has the same eye color as Blues, while Noteworthy's eyes are nearly the opposite color. And while Noteworthy's Cutie Mark is notes, they aren't the same kind of notes as Blues', plus there are three of them—Royal Riff's Cutie Mark is clefs instead of notes, but it's two music symbols, like Blues' Cutie Mark.

EDIT: Really, the Cutie Mark comparison could go either way, but it's the eye color that seals the deal.

EDIT 2: Looking at "Winter Wrap Up", one of the Blues Palette Swaps (best seen from 14:43 to 14:48) looks more like Royal Riff than original Blues does (we don't get a good look at this Palette Swap's eye color, but the other two Blues Palette Swaps in that episode have the same eye color as original Blues, so this one most likely does too). This one's actually purple, like Royal Riff's art—the toy's more blue than purple, and I know I said the toys are usually more show-accurate, but in the case of these translucent glitter toys the art probably is more reliable (since lighting can affect how the toy looks).

EDIT 3: And now "The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000" has introduced what appears to be the real Royal Riff (though his coat's a lot lighter).

Edited by Whatshisgame

It could be any pony for that matter. Especially since this pony has no color yet, one of the primary identifiers of who a pony is, so we're not exactly sure who it is. It could even be just a placeholder character which the animator could replace at any time in the production.

Both Nayuki and Faust didn't explicitly stated that that pony with Derpy is anyone or even if this is the particular part of the storyboard they were talking about. They have also stated that she would be on a scene with Luna. This isn't one of those scenes as we have seen in the final product so it's highly likely that this pony isn't Rarity. Besides, why would Rarity dunk her precious mane and face on a tub of green water full of bitten apples and traces of pony saliva?*

:)

Also Dinky's character design is shared by a lot of background fillies so it could be any of them. The only thing that's holding the assumption is fanon which is inconclusive. Then again it could happen but it's a rarity.

Edited by ArfArkFace

What makes Rarity more likely than other ponies is that she's referred to using the abbreviation "Ry" and is dressed as a vampire like Sweetie Belle.

Unless there's further official word on the subject, we'll probably never know who it is, so I re-edited the mention to note the ambiguity.

By looks of the discussion on the thread,[1] it seems that Nayuki is persistent on calling her Incidental Unicorn #2. This person also stated that this is what they call her in the studio, or at least just her pony template.[2]

I'm pretty sure they both show up in other episodes, though Rose does seem a little less common. Either way they're part of a group, they're recurring enough, I see no reason to separate them (plus Rose and Lily don't fall under the "Special Ponies" category)

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I see the Flower Trio has been moved. I'd argue they're still Common Mares because they're still used as background filler and crowd shots. They're common. They just have a consistent Running Gag, like Lyra's jumping in the background.

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Yet unlike the others they are a lot more consistent. The same ponies, the same role, the same characterization, and possibly the same voice actors everytime they show up. 2/3rds of them have confirmed given names. Plus they have interacted (as in personally talking to them) with the mane cast several times now. Sure at times their templates are used as fillers (and so was Trixie◊ and she was an antagonist) and that their design isn't that special (they're PaletteSwaps of other regular background ponies yet there are also background ponies with unique character designs that didn't have anything special about them other than looking different) but unlike the uncertainty that they were back then (we weren't sure if they were just randomly picked for the roles or if they were ever going to come back at all again with the same role and/or ponies), they have a clearer purpose in the show now. They now possess a number characteristics that defines a special background pony.

Being recurring characters with a definite purpose makes them more than just regular background ponies. Being recurring and often used doesn't mean they can't be special background ponies either. In fact this is practically the definition of being a "special occasions" pony. They appear and become an active participant of an episode when their designated role is needed.

Edited by ArfArkFace

I added the note to help encourage people to move some of the fanon stuff to the Analysis page, but on second thought it was a poorly thought out note. I've removed it now.

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The issue appears to be the whole "Who's Ditzy Doo" thing. Someone linked a macro image that's been going around that supposedly proves that Derpy is not Ditzy Doo by saying she's not part of the team Rainbow Dash sends off to get the birds, but I rewatched the episode very carefully and all it really reveals is how inconsistent the animators are with these characters. You can read my massively long edit reason in the history.

There is a problem I'm noticing. We're doing a lot of hottiping. That whole blip about the Ditzy Doo name would be better put somewhere else. Originally it was part of Derpy's Fan Nickname entry but someone removed it and all the others on grounds that Trivia tropes aren't allowed on character pages apparently. Only reason I haven't put them back is because I don't want to start an Edit War. Seriously we can't put them on the main Trivia page, its too saturated as is.

Once again I bring up the Analysis page as a possible solution for all the "trivia" this page has. It won't interfere with the main MLPFIM Analysis page (by the way, I set that up the other day and no one has contributed to it!), and if we have to we'll ask a mod if its OK to use an Analysis page to talk about Fanon and behind-the-scenes trivia stuff and make this page more about the characters as they appear in the show.

I think its worth looking into what names we use on this page again. Remember, we are not the MLPFIM Wiki and There Is No Such Thing As Notability, and Nayuki (an animator) recently said that technically Lyra is still just a nameless background pony in the cartoon. Maybe we should just pick one name for convenience sake and mention the toy names somewhere if they have one?

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

About the Blindbag Toy Names

The Canon Foreigners character page is the closest thing we have for a "Toy exclusive" characters page.

All these toy names are all subjective and up to the individual's POV seeing as the fandom treats them as either A) a background pony's "canon" name (or last name) or B) a whole different character entirely seeing as neither Hasbro or the animation studio officially or explicitly acknowledges these pony's existence nor did they stated that these toys represent the background ponies themselves.

Berryshine and Berry Punch

Fans consider this two ponies as two separate entities because of the fact that Berryshine is a unicorn and a Rarity Palette Swap while Berry Punch is an Earth pony. The only things that makes her similar to Berry Punch is her color scheme and cutie mark which fans have speculated that the two could possibly be related to each other.

Before this realization they called Berry Punch as Berryshine Punch with "Berry" being a shortened nickname for Berryshine.

Golden Harvest and Carrot Top

Popular opinion suggest that these two are the same pony.

Blues and Noteworthy

Blues A.K.A. the cyclops pony from The Best Night Ever. The fandom seem more acceptable with the toy name and have considered the toy name as his surname making his full name as "Blues Noteworthy".

Bluegrass and Meadow Song

Bluegrass A.K.A. the Ermac/ninja pony from Luna Eclipsed. This pony has appeared prior to that episode specifically in Over the Barrel. Fan opinion on whether these two are the same pony or not is vague due to Bluegrass lack of popularity compared to the other background ponies.

Lyra and Heartstrings

She is an odd case and the center of debate within the fandom after the release of the new blind bag toys. There are actually two popular interpretations:

• Lyra Hearstrings: In a similar fashion to the "Blues Noteworthy" concept.
• Heartstrings the Twilight look-a-like: In a similar fashion to the "Berryshine" pony. This concept seems to revolve around the card◊ that came along with the toy specifically the dark green coat coloration that the card Heartstring possess. Due to this fans have deduced that these two are different ponies. There are a lot of fan work that popped out most noticeably the "Lyra strangling Heartstrings" fanarts and the odd "LyraXHeartstrings" shipping in a similar vein as the "Trixie narcissism" shipping.

You know this could possibly be a good entry for the analysis entry you were planning on. With a little work, wikification and restructuring this may very well work.

I'll post more about the whole Ditzy Doo problem when I find out how to deal with it.

Edited by ArfArkFace

OK quick aside, I was the one who both made and linked to the "Derpy was not on the bird-fetching team" macro, so if anyone has comments/complaints about that thing specifically just take it up with me

Anyway, sorry about the edit war. I personally think the footnote block should be as short and neutral as possible (seriously, I tried to keep my edits on that part neutral). Here's what I'm thinking (written in informal terms):

While the original animators put "Derpy" (in quotes) and the unseen Ditzy Doo on separate weather teams, Faust stated in a separate comment that if Ditzy needed to be shown on screen they may use "Derpy"s design. However, after the Brony Boom they seem to have gone back on that statement; even official storyboards use the name Derpy instead of Ditzy

EDIT - But for God's sake, do not add this line: "It's notable that "Derpy" is absent after Rainbow Dash's team leaves and does not reappear until after winter is wrapped up." Not is that line is incredibly flawed six ways to Sunday (see my "Derpy is not Ditzy" macro for details on that) but it's really just unnecessary details/pointless Natter

Edited by TARINunit9

As I've said in the edit reasons, that image macro itself is flawed. "Purple-Derpy" is not part of that team as well, but she's the one who brings the birds back. The last image is from the song, which has the other "bird team" ponies on cloud duty as well. They're all also in the scene where Ditzy Doo is mentioned, even before the team comes back to report on Ditzy Doo.

All this, and the original footnote wasn't about that bird team at all, it was about whether or not "Purple-Derpy" was the real Ditzy Doo... which now I've discovered they can't be the same cause she's present when Ditzy is mentioned, so is the rest of that team. There's nothing flawed about current footnote which says "Its worth noting that the regular blonde Derpy disappears after the song and doesn't show up again until after winter is wrapped up." Blonde-mane, grey body, gold eyes Derpy really is gone and nowhere to be found between the end of the song and that scene at the end with Twilight & the Mayor on the hill and everyone gathered around (you see the back of Derpy's head in the crowd). Seriously, I checked. Every frame. It took a while.*

Are you saying the "worth noting" part is flawed?

That macro image is not "proof" and should not be treated as such because its very misleading. We see the cloud duty ponies in the Ditzy Doo scene and Derpy (the blonde one we're actually concerned about) isn't among them either. It proves nothing.

That said, you're right about unnecessary details in footnotes. They should be cut down when they can... or have them moved elsewhere. Which brings me to Ark.

That Blind Bag names section looks great! That's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking we could put on the BG ponies Analysis page. In fact, we could start moving it over now if you want.

We could have sections like

Fanon Trivia

Derpy Hooves/Ditzy Doo

• The "Ditzy Doo" name comes from a scene in "Winter Wrap Up", Rainbow Day tells Rainbow Dash that a pony named Ditzy Doo went "north to get the southern birds". Lauren Faust stated that they might use Derpy's design if they ever need to show Ditzy, and since then a lot of fans have adopted this as her "real" name. At the end of the episode we see a purple maned version of Derpy with a bunch of birds who was also present during the scene Ditzy was mentioned. One animator says she was called "Ditzy", "Stoneface", and "Bubbles" in-studio before the brony phenomenon kicked off, though more recently the official storyboard sketches list her name as "Derpy".

thoughts?

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That looks interesting, a character specific fanon trivia. I think I got an idea for the format now based on that example.

General Fanon Trivia

Every fanon concerning the background ponies as a whole goes here.

Concept/idea 1

As an example, the Blindbag pony names deal goes here.

Subsection 1

Since entries here will be quite broad, subsections would be implemented when necessary such as what I did with the names earlier.

Character Specific Fanon Trivia

I believe that a subsection for each character is a must have since this will be our main focus.

Character 1

A list of popular fanon theories pertaining to this character goes here.

Concept/idea 1

This could be anything from fanon, concepts and other stuff that's not officially canon.

Relationship Fanon Trivia

Seeing that shipping, friend, and family pairings play a big part in fanon, it deserves a section of its own. This section will involve any fanon that involves two or more characters.

X is Y's Z / X and Y are Z / etc.

X is "character 1", Y is "character 2" and Z is what type of relationship they are in.

How about it? Is this acceptable?

Edited by ArfArkFace

I think that'll make for a good starting point. If anything we can change it as we go along and start foldering when its start to get really big, as is the wonders of Wiki Magic.

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"Are you saying the "worth noting" part is flawed?" Yes, yes I am. This line right here: "Its worth noting that the regular blonde Derpy disappears after the song and doesn't show up again until after winter is wrapped up." Take that line out!! It's horrible horrible Natter and needs to go away forEVER!!

"That macro image is not "proof" and should not be treated as such because its very misleading. We see the cloud duty ponies in the Ditzy Doo scene and Derpy (the blonde one we're actually concerned about) isn't among them either. It proves nothing." Yeah, I agree, it doesn't prove much; I was just Fan Wanking. That said, you are wrong about this part: "We see the cloud duty ponies in the Ditzy Doo scene..." and we just happened to not see Derpy among them; she was somewhere else at that exact moment.

Edited by TARINunit9

That's my point. She's not there. Granted I'm assuming the ponies floating behind Rainbow Dash at 15:49 are clearing clouds since they're being asked to melt snow, The song says they move the clouds to melt the snow and Derpy isn't part of the big pegasus cloud clearing/snow melting armada at the end either.

I'm not saying Derpy is Ditzy, I'm just pointing out the fact she's nowhere to be seen between the song and the hill scene.

Watching the moment Ditzy Doo is mentioned again, the macro image would imply Cloud Kicker is Ditzy Doo... but she's there as part of the melting team as well. Again, it proves nothing, and we're pretty much speculating over nothing.

I'll remove it on grounds that its natter and there's inconsistency in the episode.

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All right, thank you for not assuming I was attacking you like I feared. I let my emotions take hold for a second there... And you're right; her absence neither proves nor disproves anything because everything is so inconsistent. Maybe they have two or three sub-teams moving clouds and Derpy was on sub-team 3 on the other side of town; there's no evidence either way. The animators didn't bother with consistency, which is why we need to leave all these details out of the footnote block, including my crappy ones that forced us to have this discussion in the first place :(

No problem, its what these discussion pages are for!

Also, I now have the Analysis page set up! Yippee! I left the Character/Relationship trivia blank for now. That's what Wiki Magic is for.

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

Excellent! I'll be assisting you in refining the page.

Also I've set up a link to the analysis page on the main Background ponies article so that other tropers will become aware of it and assist us on further improving the new page.

Pony Fanon is pretty subjective, especially with Derpy/Ditzy (She has multiple names for crying out load!). Its also a slippery slope - why not apply Fanon tropes to main characters? With all the Alternative Character Interpretation this show has, it'd just become a huge mess. Besides, we don't do it for other popular works as far as I know.

I think giving a little trivia on the origin of Fan Nicknames is fine, especially since the current Trivia page is pretty saturated as it is...

If we really need to talk about Fanon stuff, we might be able to use the Analysis page... What is that for, anyways?

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As a matter of fact, a list of My Little Pony Fanon stuff can be found here. Its shared with everything else, but we have our own folder there.

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I meant fanon character tropes in particular (at least for background ponies). They're often the only leads we have as far as personality is concerned. Unfortunately, directly inserting them into a character's list would be improper and confusing. Is there some sort of happy medium.

So what you are saying is for us to separate the fanon tropes from the canon tropes? Considering how the crew has a tendency to implement fanon into canon (like Derpy Hooves for example), that would be a pretty long and tedious task full of editing and a lot of lurking.

Well we could try something like this:

But then again there are some tropes out there that are too blurry to be categorized as either canon or fanon so we have to solve that problem as well if you want your suggestion to work.

Edited by ArfArkFace

This sounds like a good idea. It needs some fine-tuning, but it should work.

Some of these tropes doesn't seem to relate to canon at all. They're more like "behind the scenes/out-of-universe/real life" stuff. We can't just put those in a canon list since they have nothing to do with the universe or the plot.

What do we do with these tropes?

Edited by ArfArkFace

I was thinking about folders like Common Ponies, Uncommon Ponies and Special Ponies for ponies who are something between backgroud and minor pony.

Edited by Captainhook Because he know I'm going to go out in this plane and I'm going to remove one of His creations from His universe.

Yes, we do have such a folder of the sort.

We were planning on calling it "Special" but I decided to named it "Notables" instead then Calnos changed it to "Special Occassion".

Perhaps that name's too specific. We need a "size-fits-all" folder for these "special cases".

Edited by ArfArkFace

Maybe...Special Cases? I went with "Special Occasions" because I was looking for a common element for the ponies that only show up for certain places (like the Spa Ponies) or visual gags (Like Screwball). Its always some specific event or setting, and they're not used for crowd scenes and thus don't show up as much as say Ditzy and Lyra.

As for "Fanon tropes", as I said its very slippery and this page should be how the characters are in the show with maybe some tidbits about Fan Nicknames and such. As I said, there's an Analysis page that's not being used, we could possibly use that for all the Fanon trivia.

The character entries aren't going to be that big anyways - Ditzy's is pushing it. We are talking about extras here, not main characters like the Twilight Sparkle.

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What is an analysis page, exactly? Maybe this is the answer.

Maybe divide backgroud ponies, seperate the ones like Spa Ponies who had some lines and some canon about from ponies who are only backgroud with no important role ?

Because he know I'm going to go out in this plane and I'm going to remove one of His creations from His universe.

This same discussion is going on over in Minor Characters. That's kinda why I had the Spa Ponies in the "Uncommon" Folder as they only show up at the spa but other than that they acted very much like regular background ponies. Perhaps we should devide the folders up a little bit more, some how?

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Add onother folder for ponies like Spa Ponies. They have bigger role than Vinyl or Octavia but still to small to be like Ms and Mr Cake.

It can be called "Special Ponies" backgroud ponies page could reming more L 4 D character page :D

Because he know I'm going to go out in this plane and I'm going to remove one of His creations from His universe.

"Extras" seem to be a more fitting word I believe since they are neither significant enough to be a minor character yet are not so insignificant as to be just a crowd filler in the background in the show's canon.

Technically they're all extras. Recurring Extras (except One Scene Wonders like DJ Pon3)

Still, if we're going to expand the list of ponies here anyways it couldn't hurt to redo the folders a little. How about this?

Recurring - Female
Recurring - Male (I know we only have Doctor Whoof, but I've been thinking of adding Caramel and maybe Blues)
Fillies (We can start with dear Dinky! And there are no "background colts" so far)
Incidental (Show up for a specific gag or shown to have a job, like the Spa Ponies or Octavia, but otherwise aren't that important.)
Other - (Ponies who aren't very tropeable or don't show up that much but still get a mention or two. Because we're crazy like that.)

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

Brilliant!

Although I think we should pick another name for "Incidental". It should be something that's easy to remember and to familiarize with. Something that the readers would know and recognize right away.

Also I think we should stick to "Fillies & Colts" name like in the Minor characters section or we could simply name it "Foals" for the general non-gender specific term for young ponies/horses but I guess you do have a point there.

Also maybe the "Others" folder could also house non-pony background characters like the Mule?

Edited by ArfArkFace

I don't know... "Special"? "Specific"? Stick with "Uncommon"? "One Scene Wonders"? "Job ponies", since that's what a lot of them have in common... except Screwball (Damnit, Screwball!)

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Hmmm... I guess "Special" would do for now.

Although I could also suggest "Unique" but then it would sound like a "One-Scene Wonder" folder. "Recurring" would also be nice but then again most of these ponies are also recurring characters.

We could add a short description above the first pony in each folder. "These ponies show up for specific one shot gags or certain job settings"

So about...

Common - Female
Common - Male
Filies & Colts
Special
Other

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Yes, that would certainly help readers understand what the folder's meant for.

Also I suggest we replace "Female" and "Male" with "Mares" and "Stallions" respectively to keep with the pony theme.

If there's nothing else then I guess we're all set.

All we have to do now is to hunt for those missing and misplaced ponies and their respective tropes or at least fill them up with content and let the others fill it up for us.

I don't think we should list every single background pony that exists (Oh dear sweet Celestia no!), just the ones that are.. tropeable and notable, so to speak :)

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Well, when you get this figured out, I suggest moving Derpy to a different group due to "Luna Eclipsed". Then again, it might not be a bigger scene than the one she had in "Feeling Pinkie Keen".

Christian Furry Brony D&D gamemaster & homebrewer

It's done.

Let me know what you think of it?

Edited by ArfArkFace

It feels kinda...wrong to separate separate Derpy from Lyra and the other "common ponies". Then again, they seem to stop using her for crowd filler... oh I'll mess with it later, I have a paper to write! :P

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Clearly, the scroll bar is horrifying.

Edited by Calnos You there! Check out my Youtube Channel! The power of Ponies compel you!

I'd like to point out that Rarity's picture on the Mane Six page has her looking at the scroll bar too. Its not really that big of a deal. Maybe make them a little smaller, Vinyl's picture is leaking into Octavia just a little bit...

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The pink one with the blue mane is Seafoam, she share's Derpy's "Muffins" line.. but yeah I like that one. If I knew how to change/add pictures I'd do it, but I am a newb when it comes to images.

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I would change it myself, but I want to make sure everyone's alright with it first.

Go ahead and change it, not many people regularly check here and it parodies the usual Mane Six positions quite well. The only reason I would think of someone objecting to it is because its fanart... but we have fanart on the main character page and most of the vectors we're using for the characters are fan-made.

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Is there a version where DJ Pon3 has her goggles on (since we don't know her canonical eye color)?

Not that I'm aware of, but the red eyes fanon thing is mentioned in DJ Pon3's description it and it could always be hottiped in an image descrioption.

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Aaand, done. Image changed.