During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Carnage
Taku.
Carnage.
Batty.
I also found out this morning that Netflix will be producing an Anime series set in the Monsterverse, based around Skull Island. It's not on the discussion list, but has anyone already reserved it ? If not, anyone mind if I do so ?
Edited by Beast on Jan 29th 2021 at 8:32:30 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
Kaburagi and Carnage
So I found out that Kamoshida was originally going to have a Freudian Excuse in Royal, I did check for discussion on this using the Search Bar, but couldn't find anything. But I found these two entries.
- Unused content in Royal only glimpsed at in Will Seeds in the game proper indicate Kamoshida was always a pervert and his fiancee, a TV anchor, dumped him over it. There was a time he felt horrible about himself but his sponsors groomed and encouraged his sexual perversions if he continued performing well as an athlete. It's easy to see from here why he turned out the way he did.
- Start of Darkness: In the unused Will Seed flashbacks, he apparently got fresh with a female reporter while drunk...and was actually horrified by it. He not only begged forgiveness, but planned to turn himself into the police. One of his corporate sponsors however, helped cover it up and assured Kamoshida all was forgiven. This eventually lead Kamoshida into thinking less about the consequences of his actions and becoming the Entitled Bastard he is today.
How exactly do we deal with unused/scrapped content?
Goku Black
Kaburagi (voiced in Japanese by Zamasu and in English by cell. Lol)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We don't its the effective of a deleted scence. We only trope what it's in the work. Even ignoring that royal is a remake anyway so we could just keep him in the original persona 5 game (and even then I don't believe that is really mitigating. It sounds more like the dude is entitled).
Yea to batty and Kark.
As for the above? We don't. It was cut from the game, it has no bearing on it and that wouldn't excuse him anyways.
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
If that happened, Kamoshida would've been disqualified.
Frieza, not Cell.
Edited by MalleoWeegee on Jan 29th 2021 at 12:01:34 PM
"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
Kark
We don’t count What Could Have Been
Goku Black
Really his character page said he was voiced by Damien Mills who voices Cell. Not chris ayers who voices frieza.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
Mills actually voiced Frieza in the TV version of Universal Survival Arc as well as FighterZ and Kakarot. Cell is voiced by Dameon Clarke.
Edited by MalleoWeegee on Jan 29th 2021 at 12:05:35 PM
"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Kaburagi.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Ah whoops my bad. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
to Kaburagi
Kark.
I noticed that Spellbinder from Batman Beyond was recently added and I think he needs to be reevaluated. I looked at the effortpost and it was full of exaggerations and left out key information.
To start, the EP downplayed his Freudian Excuse. It wasn't just that he "wasn't paid enough"; there's more to it than that. He spent years helping troubled students, but their wealthy parents paid their garbage man more than him. He's getting back at the rich people who spurned him. By stealing valuable items from the wealthy parents, in his mind, he's taking what he rightfully earned.
As for his second appearance, the EP severely exaggerated the effects of Spellbinder's virtual reality machines. Yes, they're a clear allegory to drug addictions, but the EP talks about them as if they're lethal, when the episode never says that (and keep in mind, this show regularly averts Never Say "Die"). Moreover, in "Eyewitness" the Gotham Police Department ends up using Spellbinder's device to contain criminals like Mad Stan. Kinda detracts from a device's heinousness when the heroes use it as well. The EP also claimed that Spellbinder "cracked a smile" at the effects of the VR machines. That simply never happened as his mask completely covers his face.
On top of all that, a lot of Batman Beyond villains have gotten teens addicted to dangerous drugs. It's not unique to Spellbinder. Dr. Cuvier did it, Jackson Chappell and Coach Creagar did it; hell, it got to the point that reviewers of the show actually complained about the overuse of Drugs Are Bad episodes.
So yeah, exaggerated heinousness, more to his Freudian Excuse than was let on, and a lot of characters on the show have done the same kind of thing. I'm not seeing how Spellbinder stacks up to Dr. Wheeler or Blight.
The wifi here sucks
I'm not sure how he stacks up to other villains but that Freudian Excuse doesn't excuse his actions at all and the write up says that the kids are left comatose, not dead. I'm going to need more info on the other villains before I vote.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Woagh
"To start, the EP downplayed his Freudian Excuse. It wasn't just that he "wasn't paid enough"; there's more to it than that. He spent years helping troubled students, but their wealthy parents paid their garbage man more than him. He's getting back at the rich people who spurned him. By stealing valuable items from the wealthy parents, in his mind, he's taking what he rightfully earned."
So he's doing it by giving what is basically drugs to kids and making them steal for him, not giving a shit if they die?
Yeah, I don't see that holding up.
As for heinousness, Dr. Wheeler owns an entire "prison camp" and Blight is a CEO of a company with radioactive powers. Spellbinder's just a dude with a few dozen VR headsets.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
So? He still does it later, we have plenty of candidates who do worse stuff later on in a series. Heck, that leaves him with even less resources early on.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jan 29th 2021 at 9:47:48 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
The drug analogs aren't until his second appearance after he's caught. In his first appearance, he simply hypnotizes them into stealing for him and when they snap out of it, they have no clue what happened.
@papyru30
Dr. Cuvier gets teens addicted to "splicing"- genetically modifying their DNA with animal DNA through injection - which increases violent behavior. At one point, he forcibly injects Terry causing a painful transformation.
Jackson Chappell is a caretaker of Bane - who after years of using Venom is now a comatose vegetable on life support. Chappell modifies the Venom into drugs called "slappers", which are highly addictive and an overdose can leave the user comatose. Chappell gets the high school athletes addicted to slappers and they go through the same addiction process.
Coach Creager, the school's corrupt gym coach, made a deal with Chappell to supply his players with the drugs. He doesn't care about the effects on the players as long as they score him victories.
And as I said, the Gotham Police, who are supposed to be heroes, use Spellbinder's VR device to keep Mad Stan imprisoned. Stan hallucinates that he's blowing up City Hall and laughs maniacally while the cops wonder what he's so happy about.
Edited by TVRulezAgain on Jan 29th 2021 at 10:26:19 AM
Selene, Lord Shih, Taku, Carnage, Batty (Haven't heard of that one MGD. Will need to check it out.) Kaburagi
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Jan 29th 2021 at 6:36:42 PM
Woagh
Honestly, I think what makes Spellbinder stand out is the fact that he's actively harming people intentionally. Those other guys were looking to make a quick buck, Spellbinder has the additional goal of actually trying to harm kids with it.
I honestly don't think Spellbinder counts, thinking it over. Nothing distinguishes him in the DCAU beyond him being a villain of a Very Special Episode and his victim choice, and I think Dr. Wheeler is even worse when it comes to child/teen abusing monsters.
Jindai: The evil oni Taku, conjured by the feudal warlord Lord Shinzen to avenge a military defeat at the hands of rival samurai, quickly becomes far too much for Shinzen to handle. Taku drives Shinzen to guilt and eventual insanity by forcing Shinzen to sacrifice his own daughter’s soul for Taku’s aid, before possessing Shinzen himself and rising up an army of the dead. Taku has his black army sweep over Japan, slaughtering villages full of innocent people and outposts full of soldiers who can scarcely even fight back against the hordes. Taku intends to have Yamamoto’s largest city razed to the ground and every soul within massacred except for Yamamoto’s young heir, who Taku intends to possess next to solidify his conquest of humanity and reduce Japan to a hellscape of demon carnage.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 29th 2021 at 12:02:54 PM
Messenger from another dimension.
I support cutting Spellbinder.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
I'd like some more discussion on Spellbinder before I vote either way.
Yes to Batty.
Feels good, don't it?