During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
What ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
said. Here's a template to help you out.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
You need to describe how she compares to other villains in the show and whether or not she has any redeeming qualities.
Edited by falcontalons on Nov 9th 2019 at 11:04:19 AM
Grammar Nazi Extraordinaire
Is something in particular wrong/missing? I've tried to be as exhaustive as possible.
When the Darth Wiki was truly Darth: http://web.archive.org/web/20151224131522/http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/WallBanger
From what you posted, she sounds like a keeper alright. We just need it a bit more indepth
Grammar Nazi Extraordinaire
How she compares to the other baddies: She is the Big Bad, most of the others are the people working for her and all of their crimes are basically them trying to carry out her orders. Even without taking into account said orders she kills, like, five innocent people with her own hands. The worst non-aligned bad guy is someone that sexually harasses/tries to rape his female employees, and I don't believe even him comes close.
Redeeming qualities: None. None whatsoever. One episode has her ordering the protagonists to bring her what it's implied to be her former pet pig, currently in the hands of a guy implied to be an ex-boyfriend of hers. It seems to be a Morality Pet... until she orders to have it killed and cooked because she wants to eat sweet and sour pork. The only thing that maybe resembles a Freudian Excuse is someone mentioning that her dead husband, who also was a crime lord, died leaving behing a lot of debt, which would have left her in a though spot, but that's all.
Edited by SorPepita on Nov 9th 2019 at 8:31:52 PM
When the Darth Wiki was truly Darth: http://web.archive.org/web/20151224131522/http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/WallBanger
Gentle Laborer
Did she love her husband?
Wild Child
Alright, EP ahead.
What's the Work?
Planet of the Apes: The Human War, by Ian Edginton, is a three-issue Planet of the Apes comic by Dark Horse Comics, set in the Tim Burton 2001 film continuity. Set decades after the film, ape society has been thrown into civil war between ape rebels advocating human integration and the oppressive ape regime. The ape Seneca, with his small band of ape and human followers, attempt to stop a plan that could potentially lead to humanity's extinction at the hands of the vicious Minister Shiva.
Who is Shiva? What Does She Do?
A gorilla/chimpanzee half-breed and the granddaughter of General Thade, Shiva is a part of the ape council, thrown into a state of disarray as a result of the civil war and how to deal with it. Shiva's solution is simple....wipe out all the humans and any apes supporting them, leaving only a few human young to serve as breeding stock. Opening up the comic overseeing a war between the rebels and Commander Kharim's army, during which she attempts to stop her army's retreat in the face of the rebellion's artillery, regardless of the casualties, she then proposes her plan of extermination to the committee. While many of them agree, the chairman is hesitant and seeks negotiations instead, much to Shiva's frustration. Regardless, she decides to take matters into her own hands by taking Kharim and his soldiers to Calima, despite it being forbidden by ape law.
Learning her assistance, Fyn (Seneca's brother), is secretly a traitor, Shiva gleefully has him tortured to death and his mangled corpse crucified outside Calima to lure in Seneca and his rebels, shortly before having them ambushed by her forces, leaving nearly all of them dead save Seneca and one human. Infiltrating Calima, Shiva activates the computers, revealing her plans to Khalim to use Calima's technology to exterminate her enemies and remake ape society in her image. Kharim, realizing that Shiva is putting everyone in danger by tampering with the unfamiliar technology, demands that she shut it off, but she refuses, and orders Seneca killed when he attempts to do so. Unwilling to have her jeopardize's everyone's safety, Kharim turns on Shiva, snapping her neck.
Mitigating factors?
None. Shiva's just a power-hungry fanatic, who's philosophy is summed up by what she tells Kharim: "It's not enough that I succeed...but that everyone else must fail." Even Kharim, who whole-heartedly supports the corrupt ape regime, sees that Shiva is a madwoman and kills her for it. Her plans to commit full-scale genocide, and other nasty crimes like displaying Seneca with his mangled brother's corpse, push her over the baseline, IMO.
Final Verdict?
I'd say keep.
Why so serious?
Gentle Laborer
Always bugged me how Thade was one sympathetic quality away from Monsterhood. At least his granddaughter is an easy pass. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Shiva.
to Shiva. Echoing Cr0w on Carmona.
Shiva
I'll vote on Carmona once TheMadCr0w's question is answered
—signature not found—
Grammar Nazi Extraordinaire
We don't have enough information about that. Maybe she loved her husband, maybe she didn't. He is a Posthumous Character, I don't recall her talking about him (maybe she does, I don't really know, but what I do know is that he hasn't a lot of weight in the story)...
Additional info about the series/context: Señoras del (H)ampa is a black comedy (in truth dramedy, but it was marketed as a comedy) about four female members of the parents association in their children's school who accidentally kill another member and try to hide her corpse. Turns out that the husband of the woman they killed had paid Carmona's gang fifty thousand euros in order to kill her, with another fifty thousand euros to be paid after the deed is done. The protagonists unwittingly botch the deal and the husband doesn't pay the last fifty thousand euros, which is what kickstarts this whole affair.
Edited by SorPepita on Nov 9th 2019 at 8:51:00 PM
When the Darth Wiki was truly Darth: http://web.archive.org/web/20151224131522/http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/WallBanger
Goku Black
Shiva
Does anyone count in the old school planet of the apes films? Just wondering
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Shiva.
Also nobody counts in Jojo Rabbit.
Anyways, writeup time!
- Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019): General Roman Barkov is a delusional soldier willing to go to great lengths to protect his beloved Russia from terrorism. Invading the country of Urzikstan, Barkov takes over the country by unleashing a poisonous gas upon numerous cities that kill countless citizens of all ages. Serving as Urzikstan’s new dictator for over twenty years, Barkov oppresses the citizens with his armed soldiers and has potential terrorists executed or imprisoned and tortured, doing the same for women and children. Capturing Farah and Hadir Karim when they were young, Barkov kept them imprisoned and tortured for a decade, only to capture them again and waterboarded for information, even murdering an innocent prisoner in front of Farah. Once Captain Price and his men storm his prison, Barkov tries to burn the prisoners alive to destroy any trace of his brutal war crimes. Despite claiming to be protecting his people, Barkov executes his own men for incompetence, proving himself nothing more but a psychotic coward only out for himself.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Nov 9th 2019 at 11:58:20 AM
"No running in the halls!"
to Shiva, Jonah, and Thanatos
Gentle Laborer
I'll just abstain on Carmona. Zero familiarity with any Spanish show.
I'd personally like to add Richard Trager from Outlast as a CM.
Who is he, and what did he do? Before he was put into the Morphogenic Engine, Rick Trager was an executive at Murkoff who raped a female underling named Michelle before trying to do the same thing to a mitigation officer named Pauline. Like Jeremy Blaire, Trager had people who weren't even sick involuntarily submitted to forced confinement and discovered that an orderly named David Annapurna threatened to contact the press and tell the world about Murkoff abusing their patients, having him processed as mentally unstable in a similar fashion to Waylon Park. During the outbreak at Mount Massive Asylum, Trager kidnaps and exacts Cold-Blooded Torture via amputation of fingers, testicles and tongue upon anyone unfortunate enough to cross his path, chopping off two of Miles Upshur's fingers and trying to kill him once he escapes.
Why him? What makes him different from the others? Never shown to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist like Chris Walker or a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds with a Dark and Troubled Past like Eddie Gluskin, this Variant has no excuse for his actions. He's just an Ax-Crazy Hate Sink who tortures and rapes people for his own sadistic pleasure, even BEFORE the outbreak.
Edited by JEM12901 on Nov 9th 2019 at 12:12:05 PM
Gentle Laborer
I think we've already downvoted him, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 9th 2019 at 6:13:10 PM
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Shiva and a slight yes to Thanatos in case I forgot to vote earlier.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
How come? He's pretty evil, and he doesn't seem to have a reaction like My God, What Have I Done? like Wernicke, or have a Freudian Excuse like Eddie Gluskin or Chris Walker.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Shiva.
Showtime!
to Shiva and Carmona.
@SorPepita: If that's the case, then to Carmona.
Goku Black
Uh sure to carmona then.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@ACW Yes they are worse. He's a perfect example of The Sociopath. A rapist, murderer, and cold-blooded torturer with no remorse whatsoever. The Morphogenic Engine didn't make him insane, he was always Ax-Crazy while also completely free-thinking.
You'd have to make an EP.