During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Zappa
Hand slipped. My bad.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 23rd 2019 at 10:40:45 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cross-wired freak
to Zappa, quote is in drafts
"The Juice is Loose."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Zappa.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Lord Of Walruses
to Zappa
R.I.P. Sid Haig
I have no idea what I am doing
Yes to Zappa, I've seen it.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Zappa.
RIP KissAnime.
I have a question, wasn't there was mentioned in original "Nyarlathotep" short story by Lovecraft that Nyarlathotep kept collection of dead worlds, which apparently he himself has rendered lifeless? Shouldn't this be mentioned in his entry?
The line from the story:
Artur and Zappa.
@Lighty I brought it up again to try and exonerate the individual mentioned and I wanted to publicly take responsibility for the incident - at least my part in it. I also wanted to avoid being mischarcterised as just going after one person... which looking back I kinda did without meaning to. In hindsight maybe I shouldn't have made that justifying comment. I'm very sorry. I got caught up in my anxiety of how people perceive me.
I say this just about everywhere so I'm gonna say it here: if you ever feel I've been out of line, please tell me.
Yes to Zappa while I'm here.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Sep 23rd 2019 at 8:22:27 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
to Arthur and Zappa
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm NOT proposing him yet, but has anyone seen the Criminal Minds eps with this guy? If not, I may see the eps and propose him myself when the moratorium ends next year. Unless G wants to do it.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
The problem with trying to make characters like Myrrah sympathetic is that it plain never works. When a character has committed so many atrocities that they will clearly never be anything but awful if they’ve existed in real life, then ANY attempt at a sympathetic backstory or redemption will fall flat. Quite a bit of those characters were loved in a Love to Hate manner, so attempting to remove that via a Cry for the Devil moment essentially removes what made the character so fun in the first place, and is the reason why Cry For The Devil is almost NEVER done right- most often, it just feels forced because it is being applied to someone you just want to burn, and seeing them beat by their father as a kid comes across as a wangsty Appeal to Pity. It would be like Emperor Palpatine suddenly gaining a change of heart and turning good- he just would not be Palpatine anymore.
To be honest, I feel like this happens in part because there is a trend, an idea, where EVERY single villain needs to be sympathetic and likeable in some way, and those that are not are considered boring. As a huge fan of unrepentant baddies, it saddens me that there is a deliberate push against the thing I love to see. It is actually for this reason that Rousseau Was Right is another Pet-Peeve Trope of mine. Indeed, works where Rousseau Was Right have a tendency to breed Unintentionally Unsympathetic villains (Naruto villains like Orichimaru, Tobi, and Madara are good examples of this).
This is also one of the reasons why I love the Danganronpa series- the creator adamantly refused to give Monokuma/Junko Enoshima any kind of redeeming quality, and stated that he felt giving a villain a Freudian Excuse is cheating. As a result, Monokuma winds up being super fun to hate, and is enjoyable and all the scarier knowing that there is not once ounce of compassion behind that sadistic smile.
Edited by MasterN on Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:42:06 PM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
OK, but I don't think this is the time to bring this up again.
You got good points though.
But I recommend leaving this be for a good long while.
Speaking of a "good long while" I might take a break from the thread for a while. I'm a little frazzled - and it's really my own fault. Yeah... writing this, I think I'm taking a break.
I'll leave until Sunday. At which point I'll hopefully be refreshed.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Sep 23rd 2019 at 8:27:59 PM
Darkwing Goose
Zappa
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
There'll be 100 new pages and 500 new proposals when you get back ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Including, quite possibly, 3 new KR candidates.
Zappa
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Do those 3 include the 2 you sent me? Sorry I didn't get to them by the way...Ridiculous Procrastinator here
About the thing about female monsters, have there ever been any LGBT-related monsters (just curious that's all). Only one I can think of is Whiterose
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Do Depraved Bisexuals count? Good bit of those. The aeformentioned Junko from Danganronpa, for example.
Edited by MasterN on Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:58:53 PM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
In honor of Sid Haig, here’s a proposal for one of his movies.
What Is the Work?
The Big Bird Cage is a 1972 female prisoners film starring Pam Grier and Sid Haig.
Blossom and Django (Grier and Haig, respectively) are a pair of revolutionists who find out that there is a prison camp not too far off from their location that houses captive, enslaved women. It’s up to the two of them to bust them out.
Who Is he?
Warden Zappa is the head of the prison, an old, violent man without a care in his soul.
What has he done?
Introduced kicking a baby goat for no reason, Zappa informs his latest captives that if they were to escape, then he’ll unleash his dogs onto them. Zappa has the women work on his sugar plantation, forcing them to work long, painful hours every day. Those who are either informers or who do something wrong, are forced to work inside the machine called The Bird Cage, where the women have a high risk of death; we even see one die just to prove it to the audience. Some of the prisoners have even gone insane due to the slave labor; these women are taken to a small cage, the Mad House. They never come out, and are abused via hosing.
Zappa has a woman, Lynn, spy on the prisoners to see if they’re planning an escape, playing a tape of her son wondering if she’s coming home to keep her in line. He even slaps her around for wanting out of the spy business. Later on, after a woman tries and fails to escape the camp, Zappa has her hanged by her pony tail in front of everybody to teach them a lesson on discipline, leaving her like that for about a day, maybe more. So once Blossom’s in the camp, Zappa has her tortured to find out Django’s location. When the Bird Cage’s broken down, and one of his prisoners dies due to his own carelessness, Zappa, completely uncaring about her death, just walks away from it.
Once Blossom and Django commence the prison break, Zappa has his men gun down any of the escaping women. Zappa runs out once he finds his Bird Cage in flames. Crying in agony at the sight of his masterpiece burning down, one of the women gunned down by Zappa’s men grabs Zappa’s ankle, preventing him from running away from the collapsing Bird Cage. He dies, but his death is presented by the film strip burning up. Alright.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. He loves that Bird Cage mechanism more than human beings.
Heinousness?
He’s the one behind the prison camp. Even the doctors working for him think he’s too cruel.
Conclusion
I consider him a keep.
"No running in the halls!"