During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Megatron
@Elfen: Sure but what needs to be trimmed?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@UDB Let me think and I'll report it.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Ok. I was thinking on school stuff and I remembered one of the works I read on highschool and also, one of the most influential works from Spanish literature and a cause of why Peruvians are so fond of the idea of Mob Justice (in fact, the title of the work is used as a term for cases of mob justice).
Setting
Fuenteovejuna is one of the classic Spanish theatre plays from Spain's Golden Century, created for the historical Lope de Vega and published in 1619.
The play is based upon a historical incident that took place in the village of Fuenteovejuna in Castile, now called Fuente Obejuna (Sheep Fountain) in Andalusia. While under the command of the Order of Calatrava, a commander, Fernán Gómez de Guzmán, mistreated the villagers, who banded together and killed him. When a magistrate sent by King Ferdinand II of Aragon arrived at the village to investigate, the villagers, even under the pain of torture, responded only by saying "Fuenteovejuna did it."
Now, the play is a recreation of the anecdote, framed as a story about town life, abuse of authority and the contrast between lust and love. The three most important characters are Laurencia (which, BTW, was the subject of a Soviet ballet dance for the obvious reason of rural heroes killing a abusive authority), her future husband Frondoso and the infamous abusive Fernan Gomez de Guzman.
Who is Fernan Gomez de Guzman
Constantly named as "The Commander" (thought his name is mentioned some times in the play).
Gomez de Guzman is a member from the Order of Calatrava that is introduced urging a superior to attack Ciudad Real in the name of Juana and Alfonso of Portugal (the story was written as propaganda for Isabella of Castilla and Ferdinand from Aragon, also, who is better to blame than such a easy HateSink as Gomez de Guzman??) before he does it.
Once Fuenteovejuna is introduced, The Commander appears, introducing himself as a respetable man before he unsuccessfully tries to, um, "take" (pretty much rape without the r-word) two woman.
When our Official Couple, Laurencia and Frondoso, meet in the forest, The Commander approaches with a Crossbow, Frondoso hides and watches how the Governor attempts to rape Laurencia. Once the Commander leaves his crossbow, Frondoso takes it and points to the Commander, who ran away.
Later, the Commander tries to convince Laurencia's father to give her daughter to him, but he refuses, something which the Governor takes as a insult.
Later, Laurencia and Pascuala meet a peasant named Mengo and later, they meet another peasant girl named Jacinta who is being pursued by the Commander's servants. When Mengo protects her, they are both captured by the Commander's servants who whip Mengo while the Governor rapes Jacinta and gives her to his men.
When Laurencia and Frondoso marry with the bless of her father. The wedding—in one of the most iconic moments of spanish fiction—is interrupted who arrests Frondoso for threatening him and also Laurencia and her father who protest his arrest.
Laurencia is beaten and escapes a attempted Droit du seigneur. She finds the men of the town and reprimands them for not attempting to rescue her, inspiring the men to kill the Commander and save Frondoso from execution.
The band of villagers enters and kills the Commander and one of his servants, that difunds the news to the new kings Ferdinand and Isabella to tell what has happened.
Also. Just for sake of completition. The Kings send a magistrate to investigate but in order to save themselves from punishment, the villagers say "Fuenteovejuna did it". The magistrate proceeds to torture men, women, and young boys on the rack, but gives up after not receiving a satisfactory answer. Ferdinand and Isabella pardon the Grand Master and when the villagers enter and tell their story, they are pardoned as well, mainly because The Commander was such a Asshole Victim.
And thus, Hispanoamerica got a codifier to justify all our mob justice, good job Lope de Vega.
Redeeming traits
He acts polite initially, but is clear Faux Affably Evil, especially when some versions have him saying that he thinks that Politeness is virtue reserved for the nobles. Otherwise, nothing, he's clearly a lujurious man with no concern other than his vices.
Heinous Standard?
Serial Rapist that tries to execute a man and is introduced convincing his superior to betray the kings? Even if we don't count the latter part due to propaganda (and to being quite unimportant for the story), he pretty much passes easily, especially for a work so ancient.
Multiple attempts of rape, multiple implied rape, a gang rape on screen. Whipping a man and trying to execute another.
That's more than enough.
Verdict
One classical Hate Sink and Asshole Victim for a rageful mob.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 19th 2019 at 11:23:47 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Megatron and Melalo
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Yes to Guzman.
Edited by Overlord on Jul 19th 2019 at 9:07:09 AM
Megatron and Guzman.
Guzman. Was hoping we'd get some more theatre in here.
to Guzman
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Guzman
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
to Guzman
My High School theater company did Fuenteovejuna as their one act play and when I saw it I felt he should qualify for Complete Monster
Edited by raat on Jul 19th 2019 at 10:02:31 AM
The Lord Of Walruses
to the Doctor, Khan, the Devil, Crow, Metatron, Jadis, Megatron, And Guzman.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the admiral. He doesn’t even come close to the standard.
Writeup for Jacob Crow:
TimeSplitters: Future Perfect: Dr. Jacob Crow is a founder of "Brotherhood of Ultra Science" and the creator of titular TimeSplitters. Desiring to become immortal, Jacob organized the cruel experiments on hundreds of people, turning them in to either mindless mutants or zombies. Finding out about Time Crystals and their power, Crow uses them to travel in time, acquire large amount of wealth and power to create his own company, which he uses to breed special race of mutants, TimeSplitters, and use them as genetic material to turn himself in to grotesque half robotic creature, who doesn't age, thus achieving immortality. When Sergeant Cortez from the year of 2401 travels to the past and tells Jacob that his TimeSplitters drove humanity to near extinction, Crow simply laughs it off, saying that TimeSplitters are genetic superiors to humanity and they should annihilate and replace humanity.
How is this quote?:
Goku Black
Crow, Metatron, Jadis, Megatron, And Guzman.
to the admiral
Crow, Metatron, Jadis, Megatron, And Guzman.
to the admiral
Hey guys so I’ve just finished looking at this work and I think I found a promising candidate said work is The Hate U Give.
What’s the Work?
The Hate You Give is a young adult novel that got published in 2017 and got a film adaptation on October 2018. The premise revolves around an African-American girl named Starr who lives in the mostly poor black neighborhood of Garden Heights, but attends an affluent predominantly white private school, Williamson Prep. One night however after leaving a party with her childhood friend Khalil they got pulled over by a cop who shoots Khalil killing him. However the cops isn’t the person I’m discussing but rather someone else namely King.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
King is the leader of the King Lords a criminal gang responsible for the drugs, murders, and other criminal activities that occurs in Garden Heights thus is the reason why Garden Heights is such a violent and corrupt place to live.
Not only that but King would also force his wife and daughters, a teenager and little girl, to prostitute themselves with his clients and own gang members one of which includes Starr’s father Maverick who had sex his King’s wife resulting in their son Seven.
Also when King gets in trouble with the police, he forces Maverick to take the fall for his crimes, by threatening the lives of his family having one of his men shoot a child Starr leading to the death of her friend who was also a little girl. This coerced Maverick into taking the blame for King’s crimes and serve 3 years in prison away from his family.
Years later when Starr is now 16, she and Khalil attend a party at Garden Lights where King has an altercation with another guy causing a shoot. This would lead to Starr and Khalil to leave the party where Khalil gets killed by a cop.
When news of this incident hits widespread media King attempts to force Starr to keep quiet about the incident by threatening the lives of her and her family, and when Starr continues to speak about Khalil’s murder King follows through with his threat, attempt kill the family in their own home eventually kidnapping his wife’s son Seven to brutally beat up and lure Starr so that he can kill her and Kenya his own daughter when she tries to help them.
He would attempt to kill Starr once more when he sets a store that she was in on fire hope burn her, her boyfriend Chris, Seven, and their friend De Vante alive. However they were saved by the people of Garden Heights and eventually stand up to King which less to his arrest ending his reign of terror in Garden Heights for good.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
Nothing is known about King prior to him becoming a notorious gang leader. He also shows no love or care for his wife and daughter only viewing them as property to control through fear and abuse, forcing them to prostitute themselves to that he can make a quick buck and has no problems trying to kill them when they get in his way.
Also unlike all the other people in Garden Heights, King doesn’t care that Khalil got killed at all, and is only concern of how much publicity and police activity that it will bring about in his territory.
He does let Maverick leave the gang but that’s purely for pragmatic reason with that having a convict in his gang would as said earlier bring unwanted attention, and show no remorse trying to kill him and his family. So yeah not a single excuse or redeeming qualities in sight.
Heinousness
As a lowly crime lord King is very atrocious with his villainy, being responsible for the majority of crime, drugs, and murders occurring in Garden Heights forcing his family to prostitute themselves, has one of his goons murder a child, forces a father to serve 3 years in prison away from his family, attempt to murder said family, and tries to burn a group of teenagers alive.
There also the cop that shot Khalil, but his reasons were that he though Khalil had a gun, but other than that he doesn’t meet the baseline standard, and King has already surpassed him in heinousness by a mile. So yeah King sets the heinous standard here.
Final Verdict
I will leave him for you guys!
Goku Black
King
I actually heard about this book. It's appernltly quite good
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@Elfen: How's this?
- Taken: Owen Crawford is a Colonel of the United States Air Force and the head of their secret UFO Project. Ruthless and ambitious, Owen used his charming demeanor to convince his superior's daughter Anne to marry him in order to further his career and gain control of the UFO Project, blackmailing him with an alien artifact found by his girlfriend Sue who he beats to death to keep quiet. When trying to reverse-engineer the spaceship they found, he has a pair of psychic twins attempt to pilot the craft, leaving them in there longer than humanly safe which leads to their deaths, remarking that they were already dead when they arrived. Owen then goes after the half-alien child Jacob Clarke, Owen has an affair with his mother Sally, using her loneliness to get to Jacob so he can have him fly the ship and then kill and dissect him to discover the source of his powers. He is also a cruel and horrible leader, husband and father, threatening to send his wife to an asylum for her alcoholism and treating his son Eric with little respect or love, not to mention forsakes the life of Dr. Kreutz. When Anne reveal his secrets to their sons, Owen has her sent away to a hospital, but only to kill her and Bowen and frame their deaths on the latter. A cruel and unfeeling sociopath, Owen would do anything to learn the aliens' secrets, even sacrificing his own family and loved ones to do so.
Edited by UltimateDemonBeast65 on Jul 20th 2019 at 7:00:50 PM
Foreign Troper
Can I just say how crazy it is how fast time flows by? Turned 27 today, been participating in this thread since I was 19. Back then, it was in the early 3 digits. And now it is nearing 7000 fucking pages.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Megatron, Guzman & King
to Megatron, Gomez de Guzman and King. to Havelock.
Owen writeup needs to be trimmed
Sure to Megatron anyways
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 19th 2019 at 9:28:36 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."