During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Silverblade 2 I agree with you. Although for Vicious? I think Straw Nihilist would fit better and Griffith matches nicely for Lack of Empathy trope. Cut away!
Kristoph Gavin has a featured quote in Card-Carrying Villain quote so no issue. Ga'ran... Unsure
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 19th 2019 at 8:58:47 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wow, 14-5? Even taking myself away, that's still 13-5 counting yourself; more than enough.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Alright, so should I do a proper post for him now?
And for the record, I get the objections, I just personally feel Lavan is stands out for the fact he's willing to cause a magical cataclysm and potentially destroy the world purely for his own greed.
Hi. So I just noticed something that happened yesterday that's kind of rubbing me the wrong way; the previous draft of Bartlow's edited entry was put up on all the respective pages, even though it seemed like ACW and I had had an agreement that the last line, specifically the very last part of it, would be rewritten a little for clarity. As it is, it not only feels like an incomplete sentence, but the context of what happens when he murders Alisha's father, AKA the king, is very vague, and makes it sound like he was somehow planning to frame her from the beginning, which isn't true. So we agreed instead of just saying "Bartlow arrives and incidentally mortally wounds the king, planning to frame Alisha", it would say something like "Bartlow arrives and mortally wounds the king while trying to kill her, then nonchalantly decides to frame it on her". This, to me, seems like much more of a proper sentence, it gives much better clarity with regards to how he accidentally murders his king and feels nothing over it, and the entry is still short and concise.
Normally, I wouldn't be fussing over a minor detail like this, but this is my entry being changed, and it was my first write-up to be considered appropriate for the character and in overall length, and make it to the respective pages without any significant changes or edits. Therefore, when I agreed to let it be trimmed down, I felt it was fair that my requests and general input would be respected. So ACW putting it out without my last request willy nilly not only doesn't make sense since we agreed on it just prior to that, but it feels disrespectful. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt on it being meant that way, but since my private message hasn't been answered yet, I want to publicly request that this last change is implemented so I can be happy with how my trimmed down entry turned out.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 19th 2019 at 9:11:55 AM
Lizzid people!
Cut Griffith's and Vicious's quotes. Cut Ga'ran's quote.
Edited by AustinDR on Feb 19th 2019 at 6:11:35 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Devoted: Hold on, I'm talking with 43.
Godzillawolf: Yeah, go for it.
Incidenally, James Earl Jones was also Ommadon.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
As I told you in PMs Devoted, I feel like you’re cramming in too many stage directions. At this point you’ve been going on about like a one-word change for over a day to me so I’ll let ACW choose to do it or not do it but afterwards this conversation HAS to cease.
Also since folks were responsive to my expanded EP, here's an according entry I made for Terra, adding a bit to his crime sheet:
- A Certain Magical Index: Terra of the Left is the most violent, self-righteous member of the Right Seat of God. Using an ancient magical artefact to manipulate the people of a French town, Terra sends them after Touma Kamijou and cares nothing when the riot causes the brainwashed citizens to be attacked by an Academy City attack force. Revealing his intent to launch a full-scale attack on Japan, Terra shows disdain for all non-Catholic lives and shamelessly admits to murdering "heathen" men, women and children to perfect his magic.
Edited by 43110 on Feb 19th 2019 at 9:23:05 AM
Alright:
- My Little Pony 'n Friends: King Lavan, like Tirek, is another surprisingly monstrous villain from what is supposedly a little girl's show. The tyrannical Evil Overlord of the Lava Demons, Lavan regularly physically abuses his subjects for little reason other than spite and his own amusement, especially his second in command Sludge. Coveting power for its own sake, Lavan seeks to absorb the power of the Princess Ponies' wands to become an all powerful crystal being, completely uncaring doing so would trigger a magical cataclysm resulting in The End of the World as We Know It so long as his selfish ambitions are fulfilled. When the Princess Ponies refuse to help him, Lavan attempts to have them executed in a lava pool out of spite, and repeatedly tries to kill their group, including Spike. Greedy and power-hungry beyond measure, Lavan will stop at nothing and destroy anything to claim the power he craves.
I just really don't like the way the situation was handled. He didn't even disagree with my proposed change when I messaged him about it. Instead, we came up with a better description that we seemingly agreed on, then he implemented it into the draft... only to apparently take it out at the last minute without telling me. Then when I asked him about it after seeing it put up on all the respective pages, I simply got the response "nah, I decided to go with the original".
Even though I agreed to let you edit it, and you were respectful of my feelings, can you understand why this particular decision and the way it was done feels disrespectful? I was genuinely proud of my original write-up since, while it was third overall, it was the first one I did that was initially put up without any significant edits or changes, and now that this has happened... I feel like someone who's walking through an art gallery, and has just discovered that one of my very few contributions to it has been altered without my consent. So I'm sorry that we've been going back and forth over the last day so much, but that's kind of upsetting.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 19th 2019 at 9:34:02 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, the last sentence will be: When Alisha instead goes to the palace to warn her father of Bartlow's treachery, Bartlow arrives and mortally wounds the king while trying to kill her, then nonchalantly decides to pin the crime on Alisha.
Put Lavan under Tirek in an MLP tree?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
He'll change it Devoted, move on.
Thank you so much. That's all I wanted.
Oh, and while this is a bit late, I'll add an easy ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Terra of the Left.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:38:34 AM
ACW: Would make sense, as even though they're technically from different things (Tirek from the specials, Lavan from the series), they're both from G1 MLP, so that'd make sense.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, it'll be like this:
- My Little Pony:
- My Little Pony TV Specials: Tirek
- My Little Pony 'n Friends: Lavan
And if we get some more, they can go there.
Please add Lavan to the Drafts BTW.
Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2019 at 9:43:16 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I see no problem with that.
And there are a couple other contenders from G1.
One on the same level of heinous as Tirek and Lavan, but another one maybe two who fall into the 'lack of resources' category due to being far weaker than either of them and manage to be exceptionally heinous for how strong they are.
Which just for future reference: how does that aspect work? What qualifies as lack of resources?
Lizzid people!
Well, since you hunted to him earlier, what did Grogar do?
"The Juice is Loose."
Yeah might as well tell us what Grogar did and see what happens. Seeing as you already mentioned him.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:14:05 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Basically, if they're as bad as can be with what they have, it's good. It's why DC can have Abattoir and Joker, along with Brainiac, as well as Vandal Savage and Darkseid, and the freaking Anti-Monitor.
Now, there IS an exception. Van Zant from DBZ was proposed, and it was determined that, while he was as bad as he could be with what he had, he still didn't count, because all the other qualifiers (Frieza, Cell, Babidi, Buu, and now Zamasu), were all SO much worse that Van Zant having fewer resources didn't matter.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Joram and Terra.
Goku Black
What happened to discussion on Cicada?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"The Juice is Loose."
I think he got enough upvotes, but never got a write up.
A total has-been.
From what I can tell, Grogar the Ram Necromancer is really the only other possible MLP qualifier. Literally every other G1 villain were standard cartoon villains, even if they seemed bad by MLP standards.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Grogar was voiced by Michael Bell, who also voiced Blackthorn Shore; Vicus; and Gleeman Vox.
Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:59:26 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Some quotes that could be cut:
Vicious: There was nothing to look up to. There was no me to believe in.
I don't get "Complete Monster" from those quotes. At best, I get Lack of Empathy or The Sociopath.
Basicallly boasting about a single murder.
She threatens to kill one person.
Edited by Silverblade2 on Feb 19th 2019 at 2:57:03 PM