Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Ehhhhh... It's not exceptional, or very exceptional either. It isn't as common but there are a number of standalone works that have six or more, like Criminal Minds, Ncis, Supernatural, American Horror Story, the main light novel series of SAO, and Game of Thrones which is a considerably different adaptation and the ASOIAF novels.

Edited by Knack on Aug 19th 2018 at 10:19:29 AM

It isn't unusual for a live-action series to have multiple CM's, after all it often times has more opportunities to have evil villains due to multiple seasons. Often, Monster Of The Weeks qualify, while in one video game there is often only one Big Bad and some other minor villains.

Speaking of Hidan, why was he approved again? If I remember correctly, he has a very small body count compared to other villains and even when counting resources there are other villains with similar resources who manage to do horrible acts (Deidara, Kakuzu).

That said, I'm not saying he should be removed, I'm just sceptical.

Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Aug 19th 2018 at 7:24:36 PM

@Men Other than how his power is minimal in comparison to virtually every other antagonist? Hidan is a complete dumbass. Intelligence is a resource as well.

He’s a low resource sadistic serial killer and torturer. The torture helped. He also had a surprisingly large body count compared to his fellow mid tier Akatsuki. More than Kisame, Deidara or Sasori onscreen

It's a big deal with Octopath because it's just one game. Every other example we have either comes from a series that's run for many years, or has several adaptations about its franchise.

Now I'm only saying its surprising that this happened, not that it makes it better or worse or deserves a page.

I mean Xenoblade Chronicles had 3 in one game, but that JRPG in particular is huge in size and story, and that's still half of what Octopath Traveler had. I don't think we need a page for Octopath Traveler yet though.

Edited by ReynTime250 on Aug 19th 2018 at 6:30:45 PM

Guys were not giving it its own page. The octopath 6 are going to be placed in Final Fantasy

Also yes 6 CM's from a single game is something. Examples like NCIS and SAO have been running for years and hence can build up numbers like that. This is just a single indviual game so it is defintly unqiue.

Edited by miraculous on Aug 19th 2018 at 10:47:32 AM

NVMD

Edited by Silverblade2 on Aug 19th 2018 at 8:00:18 PM

Honestly? It isn't a big deal, and it definitely isn't necessarily a unique individual instance for Octopath Traveler. Games like Fallout New Vegas are what I would compare it to. Yes it is a series of games for Fallout, but it is still a standalone game as the other games aren't genuinely connected to it. Six characters in a single game isn't surprising if said game has the content. Runescape has eight characters and a subpage. Granted it isn't that much of a recent game, but you understand what I mean. If a game launches and has the content for six characters, than it does. Which is why it doesn't seem surprising necessarily.

Granted it is uncommon. There isn't any doubting that.

Edited by Knack on Aug 19th 2018 at 11:08:03 AM

Runescape is an MMO with constant updates (I wouldn't really call it an individual game like Octopath per say) and some of New Vegas CM's come from dlc.

I actually think this is the new record as far as as CM's from a single game go. Beating out even New Vegas (When you rember that a few from there come from dlc while all of octopath's are in the base game).

Edited by miraculous on Aug 19th 2018 at 11:11:04 AM

I understand but I personally disagree. As updates aren't an entry in a series, and the dlc isn't standalone either. That and Octopath doesn't have a base game, recently it was confirmed there aren't any plans for dlc or a content update and as a result, what you buy is what you have, doesn't necessarily beat New Vegas though I will say it is up there. Either way is it alright if we go to a more relevant topic now? I am unsure if what we are talking about is at all productive.

Edited by Knack on Aug 19th 2018 at 11:17:49 AM

On that note? New Shonen candidate today:

What's the work?

Kimetsu no Yaiba translates to Blade of the Demon Slayer...the plot? It's the turn of the century in Japan. Industry is coming to the country, and things are changing. The mountains, however, are much the same and people maintain a peaceful, rural existence. Tanjiro is a young man who lives with his family, including his little sister Nezuko. Then, one day, returning home from chopping wood, Tanjiro finds his family butchered and Nezuko has been changed into a demon. A demon slayer arrives, seeking to destroy the now ravenous, bloodthirsty Nezuko...but to the shock of everyone, Nezuko manages to resist her urge to try to eat Tanjiro. The demon hunter instead guides Tanjiro into the ranks of the demon slayer, Tanjiro vowing to guard Nezuko and keep her from eating human beings....and he's informed there's a chance to save her.

The demons are led by a man named Kibutsuji Muzan; the eldest and first of them. Demons can turn others into demons by giving them their blood, and if Nezuko resists preying on humans, destroying him will return Nezuko to normal. Muzan governs the demons with an iron fist, with 12 demons being his chief lieutenants, known as The Moons. The lower six, seven through 12 are the Lower Moons, but the upper 6? Are the Upper Moons, demons of exceptional power and ferocity, whose numbers have remained unchanged for 113 years, and Muzan's favored soldiers. In one arc, Tanjiro and an ally manage to destroy Upper Moon 6, leading Muzan to get furious and send Upper Moons 4 and 5 to investigate and destroy things.

Now, the demon hunters are led by a great warrior, but his chief lieutenants, to counter the Upper Moons are the Pillars. Kicking off this arc, we meet the worst of the Upper Moons so far: Gyokko.

Who is Gyokko?

Upper Moon 5. Gyokko is introduced when the surviving five Upper Moons gather at Muzan's call. A bizarre looking demon who has mouths in place of eyes, who travels via large pots, Gyokko is sent by Muzan to investigate the demon hunters' movements to a swordsmith village populated by warriors and blacksmiths who forge weapons for the demon slayers. Tanjiro has done there, along with one of the Pillars name Muichiro.

Gyokko arrives with Upper Moon 4, Hantengu and Hangentu instantly goes after Tanjiro while Gyokko decides to start slaughtering swordsmiths on the side. As Hantengu kicks off his fight, Gyokko reveals he fancies himself an artist. When he and Muichiro meet up, along with the leader of the smith village...Gyokko reveals how sick he really is by exposing a patchwork of 5 swordsmiths, mutilated and stitched together, impaled by swords at key points. Gyokko terms it "Death Of The Swordssmiths" and reveals they're still alive by twisting one sword to make one man scream in pain. Gyokko then reveals he plans to replicate it with everyone in the village, prompting Muichiro to engage him. Gyokko promptly tries to distract him by firing poison needles at innocent bystanders. He then encases Muichiro in a water dome, leaving him to drown as he unleashes his powers upon the village, aiming to massacre everyone there, and worse for his 'art'. Another pillar intervenes to save the village, while Muichiro breaks out.

Gyokko then comes across a swordsmith who's sharpening an ancient demon slaying sword despite the disaster and becomes furious at the guy for not paying attention to him. Wanting to break his spirit and concentration, Gykko begins slicing into him, carving his body up and even slicing out one of his eyes, but the guy is still focused on the sword, enraging Gyokko. Then...Muichiro arrives for round two, with the two bandying insults and dueling as Muichiro unlocks his greater potential, entrapping Gyokko even as Gyokko uses his strongest form. After using an illusion to distract Gyokko, Muichiro outmaneuvers him and decapitates him, which is fatal to demons. Freaking out, Gyokko's head goes on a berserk, Villainous Breakdown rant at Muichiro...who responds by casually slicing Gyokko's head into pieces.

Heinous standard?

Kimetsu is a pretty dark series, make no mistake. Demons roam Japan, preying on whoever they find. The Demon Hunters are the only ones really able to stand against them. Being a demon means you're a serial killer and Muzan encourages demons to slaughter and devour human beings at will. He flat out rewards them for the more death they cause, encouraging a darwinistic system of demons competing to grow stronger and stronger, with the best becoming the Moons. Of the moons so far, the ones we've seen were the lower moons Rui and Enmu...Rui lurked in the forests a s aspider, trapping people in webs and eating them while converting people to be part of a new 'family.' Enmu may be worthy of an effortpost, being a sadistic mental torturer who nearly killed 200 people on a train...of the Upper Moons so far, Gyutaro and his sister Dakki share the title of Upper Moon 6 and lurked in a red lights district, eating people there. Hantengu is just a cringing, sniveling wreck who fights by manifesting other demons called 'Emotions'...we've seen the other three Moons, but they haven't done much, though one, Doma, is worth keeping an eye on as he's a cult leader and gleeful serial killer.

Now, that said...Gyokko is not just a killer, and his twisted 'artist' tendencies made him go the extra mile. He decides to destroy the swordsmith village and make all of them into dying, agonized 'sculptures' just to show off his genius. Of all of the villains here, I think Gyokko carves out a nasty niche for himself.

What's also nice is the Demon Hunters? Are actually good people and their boss is a very kind guy, so no muddying the waters of who's the hero or villain.

Mitigating Qualities?

As to himself? None. Gyokko shows no care for anyone. His relationship to Muzan is just subordinate and servant. Gyokko also shows no care at all for any of his fellow Upper Moons, insulting several of them and not caring at all Gyutaro and Daki are dead. He goes over and above his orders, and he's shown to be a narcissist who considers those beneath him ignorant philistines who can't appreciate how magnificent he is. He even declares humans' only purpose is to serve as his art, not just food.

Now, I should note that demons are driven toe at humans, yes, but...big but here: they do have agency. They're ravenous when they awaken, and many demons prey on their own family unable to control their bloodlust, but Nezuko stops herself from doing so and binds her mouth shut to keep from eating humans. One Pillar even tried to cut himself to make Nezuko be overwhelmed by bloodlust to prove she was a demon, but Nezuko actually resisted it (and she's just an adorable kid besides)....but even that aside? We saw several other demons who have broken away from Muzan and refuse to harm humans. And demons can have standards and loved ones. Gyutaro and Daki dearly loved one another, Rui loved his family, Upper Moon 3 Akaza is shown to respect a Worthy Opponent pillar and wants him to become a demon to get even stronger, and Upper Moon 1 Kokushibo is very relaxed and seems to have a genuine sense of honor to him.

Conclusion?

I'd consider Gyokko a solid yes. Now, Enmu I'd be a little less sure of, but I can do an EP if people want. Ditto for Kibutsuji Muzan even if his defeat is a long ways off. It's been 122 chapters so far and he is, hands down, one of the most vile Shone big bads I've seen in a while. What say we?

Thank you for changing the subject Lighty. Yes to Gyokko and I wouldn't mind seeing an EP for the other candidates.

Edited by Knack on Aug 19th 2018 at 11:19:07 AM

Gyokko

You know what ep Muzen if you want. He sounds awful and the chances of somone like that getting a redeeming quality are really low (Not impossible per say since it happened with acacia but uh really unlikely).

@miraculous Or the favorite last minute redeeming quality point of reference, Orichimaru. Point is, it is able to happen depending on what the writer wants which is why it is often better to wait for a character's arc to be done. But it isn't Naruto and therefore isn't anywhere as concerning.

Edited by Knack on Aug 19th 2018 at 12:37:07 PM

Gyokko. I don't have an issue with effortposting Muzan, sounds like his arc won't be ending for awhile and if he does get redeemed he can always be cut.

Is "driven toe at humans" supposed to be "driven to hate humans"?

Gyokko (for him, at least, agency's irrelevant, due to his "art").

I'm fine with an Enmu effortpost. Might as well wait for Muzan (hell, we waited God knows how long for Yhwach).

Here's the Creepypasta one, a slight tweak for Envy, and the rewrite for Pride:

• The Tale of Robert Elm: Valentine Ambrose Lombard is the leader of the Black Circle. While in its early days the cult was founded to prevent the spread of a plague, he seems to have taken up the mantle of leader for no other reason than as an exercise of his sadism and depravity. Lombard tampered with the mind of Robert Elm's lover, causing him to develop abusive tendencies, with the intention of luring him directly into the cult's arms to murder him and neutralize the threat he poses to his order. When Elm is assaulted by a zealous follower, Lombard nurses him back to health, all while slipping doses of human flesh into his meals—acquired from various captives held in a shack—to nullify Elm's power over him. Just as Elm is almost back on his feet, Lombard and his followers rehearse a ritual wherein he plans to sacrifice Elm, using the follower who assaulted Elm as practice, eating his liver after slaying him.
• This version of Envy is an misanthropic sadist, who uses his powers to torment his victims by taking on the forms of people's loved ones before killing them. He is responsible for murdering Maes Hughes, by impersonating his wife and rubbing it at his face before killing him. Envy is mostly seen manipulating Amestris's government behind the scenes with a string of mind games and murders. This all culminates in him killing Ed when he finds out that Envy is, in fact, the homunculus version of his half-sibling. Unlike other homunculi, who wanted to become humans, Envy was the sole exception, only working for Dante so he could kill as many people as possible, abusing both other homunculi and prisoners in the process simply for laughs. When captured by the Thule Society in his serpent form, Envy is kept docile by being allowed to painfully impale his father Hoenheim, with his fangs.
• King Bradley/Pride is the military dictator of Amestris and one of the aforementioned Dante's most trusted homunculi. He is the mastermind behind the events that caused the genocide in Ishbal, and worse yet, repeats the same actions in Reole in order to lead his own nation in destruction. At one point, he even releases the infamous Mad Bomber Solf J. Kimblee from prison and unleashes him upon Reole citizens in order to take care of the deed as fast as possible. While mainly assisting Dante in her plans to create the Philosopher's Stone all over again, it is made clear that Bradley enjoys committing these deeds for the sake of "purifying" the population and expanding the country's territory. After Martel finds out about Bradley's true identity, he proceeds to murder her cold-bloodedly in front of Al in order to keep her silent. In the final arc, Bradley plays a sadistic cat-and-mouse game with Roy Mustang, torturing him both physically and emotionally, even bringing up the tragic fact that he couldn't save his best friend from a certain death. When his own son steps in the hopes of helping his father, Bradley strangles him to death while ranting about being an agent of God.

Gyokko

I'd say go for it on Enmu, but wait on Muzen.

To eat humans.

Muzan does have one instance of very notable Bad Boss behavior that's impressive even by Shonen standards. After Rui dies, he decides to slaughter the Lower Moons out of disgust. When one of them frantically protests she isn't scared of the demon hunters as Muzan claims and begs says she won't run away? Muzan instantly says "Oh, so you're saying I'm wrong!?" and kills her on the spot for contradicting him.

Geesh, lovely fellow.

How's the work in general?

Pretty excellent

to Gyokko

to Gyokko

I hope the anime does well... Courtesy of Ufotable

Yes to Gyokko

Sorry for being so late; last week was probably not a good time for an EP from me. Anyway, here's SNES Andross and a revised intro to the first sentence for the second Andross, all of which will go to the drafts:

• In a franchise that has undergone two Continuity Reboots, Andross has shown his worst in two of these three timelines:
  • The original incarnation of Andross is the Big Bad of Star Fox and Star Fox 2. Banished to Venom for an unknown crime, he converted the lush, green planet into a barren weapons factory while enslaving the natives to fight for him against their will. He then launched an assault on the Lylat System, severely damaging the various planets and regions while doing so. While Fox ends the war, Andross had put an AI copy of himself in charge of the operation, leaving him free to build the Astropolis base and attack again, this time with the goal of completely destroying Corneria.
  • The second Andross, who appears in Star Fox 64 and Star Fox Adventures (with a posthumous impact in Star Fox Command), was responsible for experiments that destroyed a good chunk...