During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Also the entry mostly talks about Gharnef and then what he and his cohort do in conjunction so I kept it joint but I did cut the length back heavily:
- Gharnef and Yatsufusa Hatanaka are the duo responsible for the turmoil in the story. After Gharnef is banished following his attempt to destroy the world with the Shadow Dragon Medeus, he meets the equally vile Hatanaka and the two sacrifice an entire opera house full of people to Medeus. Seemingly beaten back, the two attack present day Tokyo with their monstrous Mirages, attempting to revive Medeus again, Hatanaka laughing as they sap people of energy for their plot. When encountered for the final time, both eventually give their souls to power Medeus, intent on destroying the world at all costs.
Edited by 43110 on Sep 15th 2022 at 5:16:15 AM
Caesar
Yes to Wrath, and very much approve of the rewrite, 43!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Rewrite works. I'll have to remove some potholes though; I can probably start by chopping Big Bad and The Dragon.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
rewrite.
Professor Gigachad
You know speaking of crossover rewrites I have a minor rewrite to do of one of my own entries.
Current:
- Worlds Unite crossover with Sonic the Hedgehog: Sigma was previously a hero and the leader of the Maverick Hunters. However, after fighting for a while he would start to see to Reploids as superior to humans and start a rebellion. Sigma and his forces would stage an attack on Arcadia City, bombing the city and having his forces kill off various Maverick Hunters who refused to join Sigma. Sigma returns as a computer virus and travels to the Sonic universe, where he forces Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wily, and the Deadly Six to help him in his plans, mostly with the Unity Engines with which Sigma intends to harness the power of entire worlds and conquer the multiverse. Sigma continues abusing the Genesis Portals—threatening to tear apart reality—all in his plan to become a god.
Rewrite:
- Vol. 9's "Dawn of X" & Worlds Unite crossover with Sonic the Hedgehog: Sigma was previously a hero and the leader of the Maverick Hunters. However, after fighting for a while he would start to see to Reploids as superior to humans and start a rebellion. Sigma and his forces would stage an attack on Arcadia City, bombing the city and having his forces kill off various Maverick Hunters who refused to join Sigma. Sigma returns as a computer virus and travels to the Sonic universe, where he forces Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wily, and the Deadly Six to help him in his plans, mostly with the Unity Engines with which Sigma intends to harness the power of entire worlds and conquer the multiverse. Sigma continues abusing the Genesis Portals—threatening to tear apart reality—all in his plan to become a god.
Some of his deeds come from "Dawn of X" so I added that to his writeup, no idea how I missed doing so when I made it originally.
For the Sonic page, the writeup will look a bit different.
- Mega Man Vol. 9's "Dawn of X" & Worlds Unite crossover: Sigma was previously a hero and the leader of the Maverick Hunters. However, after fighting for a while he would start to see to Reploids as superior to humans and start a rebellion. Sigma and his forces would stage an attack on Arcadia City, bombing the city and having his forces kill off various Maverick Hunters who refused to join Sigma. Sigma returns as a computer virus and travels to the Sonic universe, where he forces Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wily, and the Deadly Six to help him in his plans, mostly with the Unity Engines with which Sigma intends to harness the power of entire worlds and conquer the multiverse. Sigma continues abusing the Genesis Portals—threatening to tear apart reality—all in his plan to become a god.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 15th 2022 at 3:25:14 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Ultimate Moral Compass
I call the new Blade Runner sequel series! Anybody who wants to collab is welcome.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 15th 2022 at 4:21:15 AM
"No running in the halls!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think Ravok also called dibs on the Blade Runner tv series to, but you can ask him if you want to do a collab on it
Sorry, Jackie, Ravok and I've had that one since first announced, but you're welcome to assist
Ultimate Moral Compass
Dang, thought I was ahead of the curve. Ah well, happy to help.
to Tak, the Man In Black, El Nino, Paul Kaufman, Pi Ying, the third section Sild quotethe Great Question, Aristos Kadmou/Wrath, the Omega quote, the Gharnef and Yatsufusa Hatanaka rewrite, and the Sigma rewrite.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Candyman.
I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I believe we should wait until the discussion date comes before talking about candidates from the show.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Dude, Lighty, Scrag, and Ravok already have that series reserved for discussion
Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 15th 2022 at 5:26:51 AM
"No running in the halls!"
I know, which is why I said it’ll have to wait
The Moron
You’re gonna want to blank the post before mods get involved
Best Smile
Leviathan, Marie, Orteca, Walter, Akelonian, Vail, Judge Holden, Agariyama, Tak, Man in Black, Nino, Kaufman, Pi Ying, Great Question, Wrath.
Sam, Candyman.
Caesar
Ok, let me just put this out there: discussion on Primal is happening one week from today. All of the villains that will be discussed will have been out of commission for 2+ weeks by that time, so even though the finale is today? All arcs relating to villains that will be addressed will have concluded time enough for all discussion to be had next week. If folks can please hold off until then, all will be addressed.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Wrath, Omega quote, 43's trimmed rewrite, Ordeaux's rewrites
Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 15th 2022 at 2:11:37 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Aristos Kadmou/ Wrath.
May I also ask we stop sending suggested effort posts and writeups to people who have reserved high profile works? It's a bit of a tired dance and I'd imagine rather frustrating for those who've gone through the proper process to get a template they're just supposed to use like they're a puppet. All three are excited to discuss this one, kindly let them enjoy it.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
EP Time! Coincidentally my first Animated Film and DC proposal.
What is the work?
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies is a 2009 animated film released in the DC Animated Movie Universe before they decided to make them intertwined. There's a financial crisis, Lex Luthor becomes president, a kryptonite meteorite is heading towards Earth. Also there's a smidgen of Ho Yay between Batman and Superman (helps that they're voiced by Kevin Conroy and Tim Daly respectively.) Our candidate for today? Bald mastermind Lex Luthor voiced by the definitive version Clancy Brown.
Who is Lex Luthor and what has he done?
America's in crisis, a fuckload of issues are happening, housing evictions, riots, stock market crashes. In the chaos, Lex Luthor gets elected as president of the United States after buying his way through. With his presidency at hand, Luthor has some heroes work for him to help bring justice to criminals. Over the next few months, the economy fixes itself. Despite Superman thinking otherwise, its seemingly appearing that Luthor is genuinely trying to do good for the country.
When a kryptonite meteor is making its way toward Earth, threatening to destroy it, Luthor plans to shoot missiles at it to detonate, while also meeting with Superman to try and convince him to work for him. When that fails, Luthor has Metallo attack him. Luthor then had Metallo killed by Major Force to make it seem like Superman had murdered him, framing him. Luthor then sets a 1 billion dollar bounty on Superman, which causes a shit load of villains to pursue the heroes.
Luthor is later shown attempting to strike the meteor with the missiles which fail due to them detonating before impact. With the failure, Luthor more or less snaps and decides he's gonna allow the meteorite to crash, content with causalities up to the billions (he acknowledges the number) and intends on rebuilding civilisation with him as the ruler. When Superman and Batman reach Luthor, they demand the information for the meteorite in which Luthor has the computer delete it. Unfortunately for him, Amanda Waller interferes and provides the heroes with the data they need. When Waller tries to arrest Luthor, he goes to his office and equips an exo suit and attacks Waller and her men (few heavy punches and throws so too ambiguous if fatal since they're shown to not move when hit.)
Lex then makes his way to Toyman's lab where Batman and Superman give Toyman the data so they can use their own rocket they have to crash into the meteor, and ambushes the heroes there for the final fight. During the scuffle Luthor intentionally destroys Toyman's computer so he can't automatically launch the rocket to save the planet. Luthor then attempts to stop Batman from launching the rocket manually but is stopped by Superman and a chase ensues. In the end, Superman destroys Lex's suit and Captain Atom has him arrested.
Mitigating Qualities or Freudian Excuse?
Luthor becoming president? Not out of being nice as it's shown that there's a monstrous ego at work there with characters pointing it out and him showcasing visible annoyance at it. He seems to somewhat respect Waller and intends on having her in his "new world"... which is shown to be creepy as fuck in universe and disgusting Waller with his plans of allowing the meteor to kill billions.
My main problem is that Luthor starts going off the deep end with him injecting Kryptonite into himself to enhance him. I would be concerned that it's an agency issue but it's never outright treated like he's completely changed while taking it, just that his ego has gone more monstrous. He's noted to be a villain prior to the presidency and showcases his traits which just get enhanced by the kryptonite injections so I'm not thinking it's an issue?
Heinous Standard?
Thankfully this film is a standalone so being the Big Bad, he sets it. Every other villain's deeds is set to "kill hero mode". That's it. Luthor doesn't do anything too heinous although having Metallo killed to scapegoat Supes as a murderer was pretty scummy since Metallo was shown to be loyal to him (from what we saw anyway.) What pushes him way over is him attempting multiple times to avert the heroes from stopping the meteor and happily risking the lives of billions to build his "new world" just because he was unable to be the who saved humanity.
Final Verdict?
YMMV for a reason so you decide guys.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Wrath.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."