During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The page itself can stay.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I looked at the write-up of Bayaz from The First Law and I would like to make a small rewrite. This is his current write-up:
- Bayaz, First of the Magi, at first appears to be a kindly, if grumpy, old wizard-mentor archetype. The truth is far more sinister. Bayaz has been the secret puppet master of The Union for centuries, sending countless men to pointless death against his Rival Turned Evil Khalul, who betrayed his and Bayaz's master and murdered his own daughter, who was Bayaz's lover. While Khalul is a threat with his incredible magic power and legion of Eaters, those who have gained sinister powers upon eating human flesh, Bayaz manages to be far worse. He sadistically dominates the new king when the young man tries to stand up to him, revealing him as nothing more than an expendable Son of a Whore, and when Bayaz uses the magical equivalent of a WMD that wipes out a huge faction of his own men, Bayaz's only response is a satisfied grin and to say "It works", not caring that another of his brother's disciples was caught in it. Bayaz even sabotages any attempt at peace that would save countless lives, just so he can keep waging war on Khalul. It is then revealed that Bayaz was the traitor and murdered his own lover, and Khalul fell to darkness to bring Bayaz to justice. It's further implied Bayaz might even be a cannibal himself and has no compunction using the Eaters for his own benefit.
First, the claim that Khalul's daughter is a lover to Bayaz is not true because Kanedias' daughter is actually the one who is a lover to Bayaz and Bayaz never claims that Khalul killed her but instead claims that Kanedias killed her. So, we will need to remove this part from the write-up.
Also, I would like to add a few crimes that are not mentioned in the write-up. Here is my updated version:
- Bayaz, First of the Magi, at first appears to be a kindly, if grumpy, old wizard-mentor archetype. The truth is far more sinister. Bayaz has been the secret puppet master of The Union for centuries, sending countless men to pointless death against his Rival Turned Evil Khalul. While Khalul is a threat with his incredible magic power and legion of Eaters, those who have gained sinister powers upon eating human flesh, Bayaz manages to be far worse. He sadistically dominates the new king when the young man tries to stand up to him, revealing him as nothing more than an expendable Son of a Whore, starts a peasant uprising which claims many lives, leaves his supposed friend, Yulwei, to die when the latter learns too much and when Bayaz uses the magical equivalent of a WMD that wipes out a huge faction of his own men and thousands of civilians, Bayaz's only response is a satisfied grin and to say "It works", not caring that another of his brother's disciples was caught in it. Bayaz even sabotages any attempt at peace that would save countless lives by killing the crown prince and framing an innocent Gurkish ambassador for the murder, just so he can keep waging war on Khalul. It is then revealed that Bayaz was the traitor and murdered his own lover, and it's implied that he also killed his master, Juvens, and Khalul fell to darkness to bring Bayaz to justice. It's further implied Bayaz might even be a cannibal himself and has no compunction using the Eaters for his own benefit.
EDIT: And George sounds like a no.
Edited by WatTambor on Jan 9th 2022 at 1:21:21 PM
Professor Gigachad
Just to name a few their is the Disney Animated Canon, Disney Princess, Kingdom Hearts, Disney Channel Animated Universe, Disney Channel Live-Action Universe and Disney Infinity
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Ah...whoops, I had meant to write Kanedias. Thanks for the catch
Idk what's going on with the Pet the Dog entry but idk why a fanfic villain is getting such a Wall of Text.
There isn't much being said beyond she attacks groups of heroes again and again. It can easily be boiled down to:
- Odyssey: Esdeath is an evil General of the Empire who ambushes Gray Fullbuster's party and cruelly maims them. Taking the Frost-Frosted Cake back to Shiveria, Esdeath cuts off Topper's paw before attacking another group of heroes while proclaiming her intent to hunt down and kill Gray in a rematch. Attacking yet another group of heroes, Esdeath flies into a rage when the young man she obsessively covets the affections of calls her out on her stalking, wrathfully trying to kill all present.
Wait, is it just me or does she seem to do a lot less than the EP indicated? Don't care about fanfics so I'm largely staying out of this but something to pause at before electing to keep.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Let's see if the proposer comes back; if not, I'll cut with a note.
Wat, please add the rewrite to the Drafts (or just add here and at the YMMV).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Alvin and Infinata.
No to Satan & Washington.
Are we still discussing the Disney page? I thought we had already cleaned up what doesn't fit. The page itself is fine. It is just a little hard to tell what fits there sometimes.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Has anyone from fantasy romance A Discovery of Witches and it's TV show been brought up?
I was thinking checking Peter Knox ; Benjamin Fuchs (no really that's his name!) and Gilbert
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Does this even pass baseline. It sounds like she just attacks the heroes.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 9th 2022 at 2:35:33 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Idk man, I hear she cut someone's paw off... that shit's hardcore dude!
Eh. Not only that, but I reread RWBY Galactic Conquest again...and Dark Samus easily passes. The issue? The story isn’t over yet.
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Lizzid people!
Was the character arc finished?
Professor Gigachad
I'm switching to a Cut on Esdeath unless this stuff is cleared up. And I am putting forward the idea that all of us should do this.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 9th 2022 at 3:05:55 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Washington on principle
She’s the Big Bad, so no, but she’s in massive Villainous Breakdown mode so she’s likely to get worse.
Esdeath.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jan 9th 2022 at 2:46:56 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Yeah, cut, I have no clue what was even going on with the proposal now.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I knew there was no way Esdeath was ever gonna keep anywhere… even ignoring heinousness here, her redeeming qualities are too ingrained into her character.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
I don't know, if we can get a version of Batman who qualifies, a version of Esdeath who does is at least theoretically possible.
Professor Gigachad
Let's not forget CM Kirby and Olimar.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yeah who it is isn't the issue, it shouldn't come as a shock that a writer can redo a character however they please. I'm much more concerned about the vast amount of conflicting and likely incorrect information we were given on her.
I’m here, I guess.
I... wow. EDIT: Okay I just read that Kirby entry. Is that actually legit?
to Esdeath
Edited by GenericGuy2000 on Jan 9th 2022 at 7:03:24 AM
I’m gonna put some Gloom in your eye.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Esdeath
Woagh
Cut Esdeath, agree that it sounds like she doesn't do much compared to how the EP made her sound.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
The Controversial Guy
Esdeath.
The Controversial Guy
I actually thought it was canon Esdeath being bought up at first, I nearly had a heart attack- It’s pretty obvious why canon Esdeath doesn’t qualify. And yes I’m aware this is a fanfic version, and my vote is still a .
Edited by CrystallicWolf108 on Jan 9th 2022 at 11:18:43 AM
I think we should keep the Disney page, there is definitely some connection between their works even if not in terms of canon and considering how big the page is getting rid of it could cause a bunch of problems. Just my take though.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes