During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Oh hey it has a Bollywood remake! Guess I may as well check that out next.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Steckler, Satan and the mirror demon. Abstain on Peter.
Gentle Laborer
Spirit
- Mandela Catalogue: The Alternate of Archangel Gabriel—revealed to be Satan himself—is the progenitor of his kind and the mastermind behinds the events of the story. Proclaiming himself to be the "one true savior", Satan manipulates biblical figures and overthrows Jesus Christ, fooling humanity into worshipping him instead of God. In modern day, his Alternates are responsible for the deaths of countless people with their modus operandi of Kill and Replace. Satan is also the one to blame for the rise in Metaphysical Awareness Disorder (MAD), a fatal mental affliction with a staggeringly high suicide rate.
Woagh
to Steckler, the Mirror Demon and Satan (surprised it took this long for a AH to pull the Satan card tbh).
Goku Black
Btw Bootle. What's wrong with the entry for that villain.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lies and Violence!
Last one for now, this should be an easy keeper.
Heading back over to AOS, I'm sure future has mentioned before about how much it sucks Nathaniel Malick can't count for one line of dialogue. It's a lamentation I have to agree with, since... well, Malick is just the worst. However, it should be noted that he isn't actually the mastermind behind HYDRA's final scheme. Unfortunately, the actual character responsible I hate even more.
Sibyl
The leader of the alien-robot Chronicoms, Sibyl is a "Predictor" with the ability to see time and predict what will happen if she changes certain events.
Due to shenanigans, the Chronicom home world got blown up, so they decide to colonize on Earth. Because screw us in particular, I guess.
To make it easier for them, the Chronicoms decide to go into the past (or, per-Endgame rules, an alternate timeline as revealed in the finale) and wipe out SHIELD. Feel like there were easier options, but oh well. The Chronicoms are stupid villains.
Arriving in the past, Sibyl sends her minions to do various tasks that seem like random attacks on SHIELD-personal (trying to activate a bomb that will wipe out Area 51; targeting a future HYDRA leader so SHIELD will never be formed to stop them), but are really designed to get the aforementioned future HYDRA leader, Wilfrid Malick, to agree to an alliance with the aliens. Her minions, by the way, are designed to self-destruct when captured so their advanced tech is too damaged to be taken advantage of by enemies.
Fast-forward to 1976, where decorated and totes-legit SHIELD agent Malick is celebrating the launch of an insightful little project...
I'm not sure why I'm trying to be clever. It's Project Insight, except with satellites instead of helicarriers. Satellites programmed to kill future SHIELD agents and Avengers while they're still kids.
As an extra layer of security, Sibyl has her minions steal the faces of all the loyal agents operating Insight's launch. Because she's a dick, she also does the same to the parents of one of our protagonists, Mack, tricking him into believing they've merely been kidnapped instead of. You know. Gotten their faces ripped off.
Coulson meets with Sibyl and begins asking her questions, the Predictor honestly answering every one because she genuinely doesn't believe it'll change anything. She exposits her belief in The Right of a Superior Species and Coulson blows himself up, taking out the rest of her minions (he's a robot at this point, he's fine). Malick also dies, Insight is blown up, and the robo-parents are killed.
Sibyl survives in data form, getting into a computer and convincing a guy to help build her a body. After assembling an army of crude robots, she kills the guy with a drill and sends the bots to steal her time-predicty device, killing a few other people before delivering it to Nathaniel Malick.
Malick uses this future knowledge to recruit people destined to die at SHIELD's hands, raiding the Inhuman colony of Afterlife where he agonizingly steals their powers. Fast-forward to the finale, Sibyl and Malick are able to contact the rest of the Chronicom fleet and order an invasion, having them wipe out every major SHIELD base on the globe. It looks like they're on the cusp of victory...
Only for their stupidity to sabotage everything. The main SHIELD agents manage to contact their lost member, Fitz, who teleports the entire fleet back to the prime timeline. Malick remarks that she's a really shit oracle and goes to fight Daisy (called her Skye in the last post, whoops 
) while Sibyl recaptures Coulson, threatening to reprogram him into one of her Chronicoms.
She's immediately knocked out, Daisy kills Malick, and the entire fleet is used to reprogram the Chronicoms into being good before exploding with the Predictor still on board.
Mitigating Factors
None that come to mind. She wants to conquer Earth, and is willing to facilitate the deaths of millions through Insight alone to achieve this. While she supposedly is doing all this to save her species, her next words after revealing this to Coulson are part of a big speech on The Right of a Superior Species. That combined with the fact that she directly controls the other Chronicoms, said other Chronicoms are beaten by forcibly making them realize there’s a non-violent solution, and her willingness to sacrifice her troops speaks volumes about her "care." She doesn't have the sadistic flourishes that make Malick a slightly more interesting character, but still provides him with all the future tech he needs to actually accomplish said sadism.
Further things I thought of in 2023: Though her Hunters are beaten by being given empathy, Sibyl is explicitly framed as unique among the Chronicoms and shows more emotion than them (getting increasingly angered by SHIELD, acknowledging it "feels good" to take that anger out on Coulson, remarking that she "feels only hunger" after being reduced to code), which is enough for me to say she escapes those moral agency issues.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 17th 2023 at 1:23:39 PM
Yeah that tracks. to Sibyl. So that's Seasons 1, 2, 5 and 7 (and 3 and 5 by virtue of flashback) that each have a CM.
She's a slightly more interesting character than Nathaniel, but unlike him, an easy keep without any complications or one-line disqualifiers.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 1st 2021 at 4:22:04 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Sybil.
Feels good, don't it?
Goku Black
Sibyl
Professor Gigachad
Sibyl.
What was Nathaniel's one-line disqualifier? Wasn't there for that.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll read the EP, but I got a question: Pædo Hunt isn't just a pedophile, but more about when pedophilia's used for mass hysteria, right? Usually for pedophiles I use Would Hurt a Child.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He knocks out Deke—who killed his father—after torturing him for info and declares: "That was for my old man!" It's iron-clad. He's still hateful—and a weak villain—but not this.
I realize that's for the best though actually. It's in character with the intense guilt Gideon Malick felt in the other timeline for sacrificing Nathaniel to Hive in his place and Nathaniel feeling that betrayal himself through Hive. His relationship with Gideon is also therefore something not really subverted either.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 1st 2021 at 4:36:54 AM
to Sibyl
Lies and Violence!
- Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
- [Other two]
- Season 5: Taryan is a Kree noble and leading member of the Confederacy, a collection of various empires out to exploit planets for resources before Thanos completes the Infinity Gauntlet. After the newly-empowered Glenn Talbot takes over the Remorath, Taryan plays on his ego and growing insanity to convince him to cause chaos on Earth while the Remorath bring him the powerful Quake, whom he tries to break into a loyal disciple. In a Bad Future where Talbot destroyed the planet, Taryan set up a Kree outpost to farm the surviving humans for Inhumans, placing his son Kasius in command as punishment for retreating from a suicide mission. On this outpost, humans are forced to slaughter each other in regular purges; rebellious lawbreakers are sent to be eaten by Vrellnexians on the planet's surface; and Inhumans, even children, are forced to fight in death matches, with the victors auctioned off as soldiers.
- Season 7: Sibyl, the Chronicom Predictor, decides to destroy S.H.I.E.L.D. in the past to make a Chronicom invasion easier. Forming an alliance with HYDRA, Sibyl fast-tracks Project Insight to kill the Avengers while they're still children, having her Hunters kill and steal the faces of both loyal S.H.I.E.L.D. agents and Mack's parents. Sibyl survives an explosion that destroys her Hunters and convinces a lonely programmer to help construct crude replacements, killing him once they're complete and providing knowledge of the future to Nathaniel Malick. With her help, Malick recruits killers destined to die because of S.H.I.E.L.D. and sieges the Inhuman sanctuary of Afterlife, where he agonizingly steals its inhabitants' powers. Sibyl makes contact with the Chronicom fleet and orders them to obliterate every S.H.I.E.L.D. base on the planet, and upon being transported back to the primary timeline prepares to do so again.
Two issues I have with the current layout of the MCU page:
- Under the Netflix folder, should Kilgrave really only be labeled under Season 1? Sure, dude dies at the end, but he still has a massive impact on Jessica and her trauma for the rest of the series.
- Do we really need trees for the Thor and Captain America films? It just feels unnecessary, and honestly kind of hurts to look at.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 1st 2021 at 5:14:17 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Imperfect Disgrace
Satan, Mirror, and Sibyl.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Sibyl.
to Sibyl. I remember her being quite ruthless and apathetic to the fact she was killing a lot of people just to control the timestream.
Also, been watching the Psycho movies. Is Mrs. Bates still off the table even if her actions are still offscreen?
The MILF Virus
Sibyl, Mirror Demon, Satan
- Hard Edge:
- Miguel is the leader of a terrorist organization out to acquire a disc that would launch the Garland System Satellite upon the Earth. Hired by Professor Vault, he would later betray him by trapping him inside a computer, seeking to use the satellite to rule the world. Invading the Togusa building and allowing his men to murder everyone there, he lets Gasshu deploy a bomb set to destroy the entire building, murders Professor Howard in a hostage trade for the disc, and sets the satellite to blow up the entire town while he makes an escape.
- Professor Maverick Vault is a prideful scientist who cause the terrorist attack in Togusa Building after his ego was bruise when he was taken out of the Garland Satellite Project due to his bravado killing others. Out of spite, Vault hired Miguel to attack building and take the satellite, but when Miguel betrayed him, Vault decided to instead take control of the satellite himself by trying to trick the special forces to free him before taking Michelle hostage and if he succeed, Vault would rain destruction upon the world in a display of power to sate his pride.
The Draftsman of Doom
Does Norma even appear alive in those films?
Feels good, don't it?
In no sense does Norma Bates qualify for CM
Satan.
Mirror Spirit.
AOS candidates.
Edited by Beast on Dec 1st 2021 at 5:56:27 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Yes to Satan
I could have sworn there was more ambiguity as to the spirit being real or not. Then again it has been several years since my last viewing and I completely forgot that it has a history of killing families which I think is enough to say that it's real, yes there.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon