During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gorospe and Friedkin.
Isabelo and Friedkin
Also:
1. Yes, Ziggy is most likely already heinous enough and has zero redeeming qualities for now (since even though he claims to support robot rights, he tries to kill Pino along with the others when Pino refuses to join his crew). Also, he killed my EZ waifu Witch, so screw him.
2. Another FT villain who doesn't count is Geoffrey, the villain from the (very well made) prequel: Fairy Tail Zero. He did burn down a town (and it was shown to kill all people), forcefully occupied and oppressed another town, and possibly has low enough resources to count (since the prequel establishes that there were far fewer magic users back then than in present-day FT), but the thing is that when he is fooled into thinking that the town he is oppressing is in flames, he's genuinely shocked/horrified and calls Mavis "scum", only calming down when he realizes it's an illusion.
Crimson King.
So I've been playing through Super Robot Wars X and I think there might be another possible CM along with Ende that Kazuya overlooked. Namely, their(SRW X's) take on Doakudar from Mashin Hero Wataru. Now I don't know about what he's like in his home series(through I suspect since said series screams Sugar Bowl there he's either the eviler-than-most-sugarbowl-villains a la Lavan and Tirek but misses the mark, or akin to the Dark Princess in that he does qualify in his home series too), but I highly doubt that his goal of "trying to break reality and summon the Anti-Spiral to wipe out all life on Al-Warth" is "too similar" to whatever he did in his home series. And we even see him attempting this goal happening onscreen.
So it might be worth looking into this, especially Ende has more resources than him for Ende to not be an issue HS-wise, Embryo is kinda toned down vs. his V incarnation and the other villains on his tier do not have similar omnicidal goals.
Overall we're looking at 10 entries on the SRW CM page if both this one and my planned SRW GC EP are upvoted.(Doakudar would hypothetically go below end, while the SRW GC character would be above Kaiser Ephes' entry since GC came first)
Also found a unauthorized pothole to CM on Super Robot Wars Z.
- Then there's Advent, whose appearance in the any of the final stages is usually synonymous with a massive nosedive in the writing, confusing and conflicting motivations, committing an exhaustive list of horrific atrocities and yet still getting to be on good terms with Hibiki in the end, and the Supreme God Z's design being unimpressive with only a single attack with proper animation.
I don't think Advent is a CM, he ends up as a graceful loser after the final battle and has regrets about his actions in 30. Going to change this to Moral Event Horizon.
Edited by xie323 on Nov 17th 2021 at 10:40:53 AM
Sure to Isabelo and Friedkin.
Showtime!
to gorospe and friedkin
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Isabelo Gorospe
Doctor Arthur Friedkin
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 17th 2021 at 1:58:11 PM
Watch me destroying my country
to Colonel Lane, Doctor Schreber, the Crimson King, Coach Isabelo Gorospe and Dr. Arthur Friedkin.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Psycho Psychologist and Creepy Gym Coach.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Welcome to the Dark Side, Misry.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 17th 2021 at 4:17:39 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Imperfect Disgrace
Crimson King.
Crimson King
Okay, long day on the road.
Coach Gorospe.
Doctor Friedkin.
An enthusiastic to the Crimson King.
for Dr. Bellows, Colonel Hades, Dr. Schreber, the Crimson King, Coach Gorospe, and Dr. Friedkin.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Somewhat quiet day. It's weird how some days we can get like 10-20 EP's, while others we MAY get 5 ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Also possible cut from Godzilla: Final Wars.
- Monster X, real name Keizer Ghidorah, is a fully sapient alien sent by X to help him with the human genocide, not even caring about X's hegemonic goals himself and only interested in killing. Battling Godzilla during their fight, Keizer pins him down just so that he could see Gigan slowly cut him with his chainsaw, fully aware of how cruel Gigan is and how painful it will be. Spending the rest of the battle enjoying the destruction, Keizer, after his superiors die, shows his sadism again by slowly sucking the life out of Godzilla, and intending on destroying the world after. While every other alien minion of X was brainwashed, Keizer did all this solely because it was fun, and proved a worthy successor to the previous Ghidorah incarnations.
So my issue with Final Wars Ghidroah ? He does fuck all in his screen time.
He only shows up at the last half hour to be the final boss of the movie, and that screentime is based solely around his fight with Godzilla. And most of the destruction caused by that fight is done in a seemingly lifeless wasteland, one Monster X didn't create. And while Monster X is incredibly sadistic and tortures Godzilla in their fight, again, it's solely directed to Godzilla himself.
While I see a few cases who make the cut with one or two incredibly heinous deeds, I doubt something like that can apply to a monster of Keizer Ghidorah's power ( or most signifcantly powerful villains who otherwise do nothing, which is why I didn't revisit Anton Bartok, but that's beside the point).
All and all, it feels like he only gets in here for mollywhopping the protagonist monster. They don't even expressly say if he wants to destroy the world on his own.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wait, it's not specifically stated he wants to destroy the Earth? That seems...problematic.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
Kaiser was first brought up here.
Edited by AustinDR on Nov 17th 2021 at 3:09:32 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"the implication is clear that if Godzilla dies, Kaiser Ghidorah will rampage through the rest of the world"
How clear is that implication?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'd give Kaiser Ghidorah a barely , just for how he's the cruelest of the antagonist monsters. His cruelty to me is just enough to let him count.
Not much; there's no visiual cues, none of the characters suggest it, the contextual suggestions are A He's a monster under the Xilians control and B, he's an incarnation of Ghidorah, and him being a world destroyer is supposed to be part of the characters gimmick. Even then, the whole entire screen time is focused solely on his fight with Godzilla, with nothing to indicate or imply any further or endgame goal(s).
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Imperfect Disgrace
Are his actions unique in the Millennium continuity?
Just an empty void…
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Controller X sounds like, way worse then him.
Cut away if this is all accurate
The First man
Professor Gigachad
I do wonder what Ambar would have to say. If this is true I guess cut.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 17th 2021 at 3:53:46 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Woagh
Chop away at Kaiser.
to the Crimson King.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Nov 17th 2021 at 3:51:45 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
The Draftsman of Doom
Leaning cut with the new information.
Also, I could have sworn that I have repeatedly mentioned the fact that I got my first thump over discussing the circumstances behind another troper's ban in a project thread, and that you have seen me say as much, Ordeaux. Believe me when I say discussing the suspensions of other tropers is off-topic and unnecessary.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 17th 2021 at 6:54:09 AM
Feels good, don't it?