During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Space Commie Tim Curry. Again.
Anyway, here's Luthor's write-up:
Kingdom Come: Even in old age, Lex Luthor is still as bad as ever. Taking advantage of the Justice League's disbanding and the rising conflicts between the new metahumans in their place, Lex formed the Mankind Liberation Front and had Captain Marvel mentally tortured with parasitic worms to turn him into his brainwashed stooge. When the League resurfed and built a gulag to contain the new metahumans, Lex sends Captain Marvel to attack the gulag and break them out in the hope that the resulting destruction would cause a catastrophic war between these superpowered individuals and the rest of humanity. During the Convergence event, Lex had long abandoned his desire to rule and any pretense of helping his fellow man. Instead, he happily assists the New Earth Suicide Squad in taking out his world's Green Lantern and even tries to beat him to death with his bare hands.
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
The Moron
No to Bolsa. Time or no, Breaking Bad's standard is massive and I can't see Bolsa meeting it. Hector orders him around for most of his actions and while the Tortuga bomb is brutal, it's far from the only mass murder attempt - Walt, Gus, Mike, and Lalo all gain huge body counts too in small amounts of time (and Lalo and Hector apparently once burned down a hotel). There's just so much going on that I can't even say Tortuga's enough.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 2:07:54 PM
RIP Toriyama
Honestly don't feel Bolsa myself, either. Gus, Jack Walker, the Cousins may have more episodes, but in resources Bolsa is way above them all except Gus, yet the rest are pretty damn worse than Bolsa by a large margin. The Cousins massacre an entire truck of people in their first episode, Jack kills plenty of people and subjects Jesse to vile torture before killing and threatening his loved ones, Gus is...Gus. Bolsa is very indirect in his evil and I can't say I see him all that worse than other villains.
Edited by Ravok on Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:56:09 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Yeah, to be honest, I kind of saw this coming. Was just curious if he has any chance.
Goku Black
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Bolsa
As much as I would've liked to say yes to Bolsa, he does flail in comparison to other characters. Unless he gets a big, massive, heinous act in the final season of Better Call Saul, I gotta say for now.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cherdenko. Bolsa.
No to bolsa, heinous standard is too high
Goku Black
Did we discuss Riverdale and Pokemon secrets of the jungle yet?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
also, I gave a little review and...oh, hell yes, we're good for this:
What's the work?
The Stepford Wives is a 1975 film based on the 1972 novel by Ira Levin starring Katharine Ross. Joanna is a wife and mom who with her husband Walter moves from the big city to the quaint little Connecticut town of Stepford...she befriends a woman named Bobbie there, but...Stepford can be a bit odd. The women there, some of them, are gorgeous, but...submissive, focused only on domesticity nd their husbands, who are members of the mysterious Men's Association.
And the man behind it? Dale "Diz" Koba.
Who is Dale Koba?
A bachelor who used to work at Disney where he gained a passion for robotics work, Dale put together the cult in Stepford where...well, some of the women were getting too educated, too outspoken, too independent...and Dale is a man who enjoys seeing ladies performing domestic chores, being demure and knowing their place. So he implemented a scheme. The big twist? The men of Stepford have been having their wives murdered and replaced by perfect robotic duplicates who are perfectly obedient, do everything expected, are sexually submissive and revolve around their husbands.
By the time the film starts...a large chunk of women in town have been replaced and Joanna's growing suspicions are not helped when Bobbie suddenly turns into a perfect little cookie-cutter Stepford Wife as well, signaling Dale has had her killed as well...now, the film's climax/ Joanna's frantic investigations lead her to Dale who reveals he wasn't quite so ready to replace her yet, but having lured her in with the kids, it's over...as he details his motives, declaring it "better for everyone," he mentions women would like the same if they could get away with it, wouldn't they? That Joanna would appreciate a "handsome stud" to wait on her hand and foot, to "caress your sagging flesh and tell you how beautiful you are."
Joanna tries to run, but only manages to find her own robot double...with black, lifeless, soulless eyes. Dale keeps her in the room, watching as the Robot Joanna advances with stocking in hand to strangle her...
And the final scene is "Joanna" pleasantly shopping, picked up by Walter and her kids...Stepford has won.
And yes, Dale gets away with all of it...
Mitigating issues?
Dale is the head of the Men's Association. He's a misogynist who dresses it in pretty language, how much he enjoys seeing women at their domestic place. He even tries to cover it with "Oh, look how much better it is for everyone." But...okay, he's having countless women murdered to be replaced with robots by their own husbands, after gaslighting them to hell and back.
Do I even need to say more on this as to what a sickening scumbag this guy is?
Conclusion?
And a yes.
Bolsa, jacked up heinousness standard there.
Space Tankie Tim Curry yet again
Koba
Blofeld
Edited by xie323 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 11:55:01 AM
Goku Black
Koba
Huh, we never discussed this guy.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Diz. Just gonna go out on a limb and say nobody from the remake counts?
Goku Black
Nope. Everything their is played for laughs.
Having unfortunately seen it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Koba.
So the trope-namers for Stepford Smiler are a bunch of robots? Okay.
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Dale. I was unaware there was just one guy behind it all.
Anyone count from the novel?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
To be quite honest, I haven't read it. There's the novel where I think Dale still exists there, and a made-for-TV sequel (where there's someone else involved). I can look eventually.
Dale
Bolsa
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, I'm busy tomorrow, so the Ghost Rider stuff will go with Halloween's batch (Lighty, any more coming from you?).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
It's weird we have examples up from most of Ira's film adapations but not the books themselves. I know their more famous.
But it does make you wonder on on the book versions of Joseph Mengele and Jonathan Corliss
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Gonna start with Evil Dead soon, but I have no further Ghost Riders at the moment.
Goku Black
Did Zarathos not pan out ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Sad nay there. Not bad enough, IMO, not in breaking Bad's dark, dark world.