Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Darn, I am NOT good at choosing candidates for CM. Two failures in a row so far. Third times the charm I guess.
Collector of Worlds
I hate to sound pushy or annoying, but how many votes does it take for a Complete Monster to be approved?
I will claim what is rightfully mine, and rebuild the Kryptonian Empire.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Jack Horner, Mick Scoresby, Bara Nightmare, Nur-Ab-Sal, Orchard
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
To Double & Turbo
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
5 more yes votes than no votes. Yes votes can include the proposer; abstains don't count as yes or no.
EDIT: Anyone count from the following? These are the only 2022 works remaining:
- Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities (I THINK Lighty's getting to this soon.)
- Marvel's Midnight Suns (What's the verdict on Crossbones I think it was?)
- Werewolf by Night (2022) (SumDumNerd)
- V/H/S/99 (Jackie)
- The Imperfects: (Mir/MGD)
- Andor Season 1
- Starfield: (DrUnknown)
- Bendy and the Dark Revival: (snoketrope)
- Evil West: (Tyk, you finished this yet?)
- Rick and Morty Season 6: (G-Editor/LoreDeluxe)
- The Dragon Prince (Season 4): (Lightysnake)
- Dragon Age: Absolution: (Mediawatcher)
Edited by ACW on Jan 25th 2023 at 7:16:38 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah. As far I can tell, Double's crimes are outdone by Dragoon's massacre of Sky Lagoon, so I say to Double.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Might wanna ping Sum, Unknown and Tyk I've not seen them since before the thread shutdowns.
Idk how to ping sorry.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I've exchanged PMs with Tyk.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Also IIRC Ravok was the one who reserved Andor for CM?
So idk why it's been reserved by "beneficii"
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I have to say to Double but a to Omen and Miriam.
Nobody counts for CM for Dragon Prince. Yes, we're getting to Cabinet soon. Just along with Willow and Hunters. THEN I can get to Critical Role
Yes to Scoresby, Bara Nightmare, Nur-Ab-Sal and Orchard
No to Double & Turbo
Edited by Overlord on Jan 25th 2023 at 6:02:56 AM
Not the Eye
Another one I had in pending.
What is the work?
Thor and the Amazon Women (le gladiatrici) is 1963 Italian/Yugoslavian So Bad, It's Good muscleman movie. A sequel to Taur to migthy, we follow thor and his sedikeck Ubaratu as they go agains tribe of amazons who have enslaved man of the land. And what do the tipes of movie love, well and evil Queen of course!
Who is the Black Queen?
The queen of amazons played by Janine Hendy. Fifteen years before the events of the movie she and her army attacked the Kingdom of Babylon massacred the royal family having king pulled by horses to death, with only survivors being his daughter Tamar and her baby brother Amouk. Men [1] including boys were enslaved in mines, starved and beaten for smalest infraction, while women are trained to be part of her army, spreading Terror and death across the land with their battle cry “Elp!elp!elp!”. Children were stolen with boys raised as slaves and girls as amazons. Any woman who protested were made glatiaticres forced to kill 20 aother glatiatrices to earn their freedom, with any who refuse exucuted on spot.
Oracle informs her the her Kingdom will fall to the “Man with a streng of 100”. Queen promises 100 male slaves to anybody who can provide information about such man. One of gladiatrices Ghebel Gor informs her about thor who lives in mountains ruled by shepard king (where Tamar and her brother live). She send her army to capture thor, thought they capture Tamar and Amouk instead. Tamar is made gladiarice while Amouk is send into mines. Captain of Queen’s guard learns of Tamar’s linneage and makes Heel–Face Turn for which queen has her pinfully exucuted.
Thor and Ubaratu venture into the kingdom of amazons to rescue Tamar (her brother escaped with the help of amazon girl). Ubaratu is captured and made into the Queen’s new husband while thor unsucefuly tries to prevent execution of the old one. Thor is forced into a tug of war with 101 amazons while Tamar and Ghebel Gor fight to the death while. Thor wins and succefuly rallies slaves into a rebellion and united Forces of other kingdoms come into rescue. Queen tries to run but Tamar has her impaled by spear ending her rein of terror.
Redeming quealities?
No. Unlike other evil man hating Queens she is never given a reason for hatred of men, has any woman who difies her forced to fight to the death or just executed, she kills her husbands when she gets bored of them. She does have blofeld’s cat, but she abbadons it with no thought when it gets dire.
Now it is stated that amazons don’t kill children, but this is only pragmatism. Children are easier to indoctorinate into an army or Break into a slaves after all.
Heinousness?
As stated this movie is sequel but i really doubt anybody in it is so bad to disqualify queen. She is slaver, torturer, butcher and serial Black Widow.
Verdict?
Pass. And as inhabitant of former Yugoslavia, I apologize for this movie.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Seems like a yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Omen.
Double. The only thing I can recall from him in terms of crime is the scene where he massacres a few of the Maverick Hunters, but compared to Sigma, it is not even close to heinous enough.
Yes to the Black Queen
Showtime!
to the Queen and Omen
to Double, and I'm probably going to say to Orchard too. They're just too offscreen for me compared to every other body horror villain in Worm/Ward
Messenger from another dimension.
Wow, this moves super fast! But definite yes to Scoresby! And yes to Black Queen too.
Edited by emperors on Jan 25th 2023 at 9:57:02 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Anyone know if Elliot Ludwig got enough votes?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Black Queen, not discussing Jack Horner to avoid spoilers
Alright third times the charm and this is my biggest (and hopefully best) proposal yet:
- What is the work?
Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope is the slightly Darker and Edgier 2022 sequel to the 2017 game Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle. The tone of the game is noticeably a bit more serious and has even more stakes than the first game. One of the biggest reasons why is because of the candidate I am going to be discussing.
- Who is Cursa? What has it done?
Cursa is an eldritch monstrous being who is also the reincarnation of the Megabug from the first game. After the defeat of the Megabug, the leftover fragment of the Megabug merged with stellar debris which caused it to mutate and then it slowly gained sentience as it fed upon the life energies of the galaxy which in turn transformed it into Cursa.
As Cursa was intrigued by the joy of the Lumas, it went to the Comet Observatory while masking it's presence so Rosalina could not sense it's arrival proving to already be intelligent enough to do so. As Cursa attempted to attack the Observatory and the Lumas, Rosalina protected the Lumas and in turn the Lumas became merged with Rabbids which created the Sparks and Cursa possessed Rosalina and took over her body. However, Cursa could feel Rosalina inside rebelling against the beast so in order to crush Rosalina's hope, will, and spirit once and for all, Cursa went off to gather and absorb the life energy of the Sparks which are basically star babies. In turn Cursa created it's own army so that it can consume the universe in darkness.
Cursa then polluted multiple different worlds with Darkmess which caused destruction and havoc across the multiple different worlds.
During Cursa's conquest, it arrived to the Mushroom Kingdom so that it could mind control all of Bowser's minions and use them as a part of it's army for universal destruction.
Cursa then created the Spark Hunters, rogue warriors that were made to hunt down all of the Sparks that were all across the universe so that it could feed upon them, and ordered them to track the remaining Sparks across the universe so that it could absorb more life energy from the Sparks.
After which once three of the remaining Spark Hunters returned, one of the Spark Hunters, Daphne, handed over the three Sparks that it captured to Cursa for it absorb the life energy out of. During the absorbtion process, Rosalina quick broke out of Cursa's possesion and realized what she was unwillingly doing to the Sparks meaning Rosalina is fully aware of her possession and what Cursa is doing while it is in possession of her meaning that this very likely is an And I Must Scream situation. As Cursa regained control over Rosalina, it continued to successfully absorb the life energy of the three Sparks. After noticing that the other two Spark Hunters didn't have any more Sparks to give, Cursa smashed them with it's fist showing how cruel of a boss it is.
Once Mario and friends defeated Daphne, Cursa arrived to kill all of them only for Rosalina to finally break free of Cursa's control so that she could save the heroes just in time only for Cursa to successfully possess Rosalina once again.
During the final battle, Rosalina breaks free of Cursa's control once again for good causing Cursa to take on a new form and attempt to kill Rosalina and her allies once and for all. During Cursa's defeat, it spits out all of the hundreds of dead Sparks that it absorbed the life energy as the Sparks then were resurrected and sacrificed themselves to stop Cursa as Mario and friends finally manage to destroy Cursa once and for all.
- Heinous Standard
Now in the same series, the Megabug attempted to destroy both the Mario universe and the Rabbids universe which is pretty damn bad, but not only is Cursa the reincarnation of the Megabug, but it is more personal to Rosalina as it possesses her twice so that it can absorb the life energy out of the Sparks, her own children basically, all across the universe so that it can spitefully crush Rosalina's spirit so that it could remain in control of her forever and it also wants to destroy the universe by consuming it in darkness. I think Cursa is definitely heinous enough.
- Mitigating Factors? Freudian Excuse?
Now let me get this out of the way first, no the Megabug and in turn Cursa does NOT have moral agency issues. I'm not even sure where this misconception even came from because at no point in either game does it state that the Megabug is a being that is Made of Evil.
Cursa is played DEAD seriously with absolutely zero comedic qualities or moments and is portrayed as a dead serious Knight of Cerebus in an otherwise comedic adventure from start to finish.
There's also the concern that some may have that Cursa doesn't have enough solid characterization as it only has one whole line of the dialogue throughout the entire game and never talks again. Ignoring the fact that we have approved purely silent villains as CM material like the Red Death from How to Train Your Dragon, I have some reassurance. Well for starters, no Cursa is not a GDV like the Megabug as unlike the Megabug, it very much has well-defined goals and motives by wanting to specifically target the Sparks and absorb the life energy out of every single one in the universe just to spite Rosalina by crushing her hope so that it gain full control over her body. The reason why the Megabug wasn't approved as CM material was mainly due to it being a GDV that is a mindless monster with no clear sentience or motives. Cursa has clear sapience and sentience after it absorbed the life energies of the galaxy as the game itself states and is clearly shown to be sadistic and spiteful towards Rosalina as it's whole goal is to absorb all of her own children so that it can take full control over her purely out of spite. So yeah I think Cursa has enough solid characterization to be a CM.
- Final Verdict
I say an absolute yes to it, but once again it's up to you guys to decide.
Edited by Fireball246 on Jan 25th 2023 at 8:36:57 AM
Easy to Cursa. I think you can also include Mega Bug's actions in the first game of trying to destroy two universes since Mega Bug and Cursa are more or less the same being, with Cursa being an incarnation of Mega Bug
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 25th 2023 at 10:24:16 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll give a tentative yes.
Please link to the work pages.
Also, for Mega Bug, you want [=MegaBug=]
Edited by ACW on Jan 25th 2023 at 10:28:58 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Cursa
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Yeesh, even if he's not a pedophile, there's still And I Must Scream it seems.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts