Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Manny, The Ripper
to the Ripper
Caesar
Yes to the Ripper and Sherman.
I don't think anyone behaved "angrily" or put anyone "on blast" in the discussion on Jack, opinions were calmly stated and debate had, and me simply pointing out the flaws in the meme video being used to debate a character's credentials I don't think constitutes "anger" or treating anyone something other than respectfully, myself. But I'mma just recuse myself from further talk on Jack since I've said my piece and would like to move on.
Edited by Ravok on Jan 23rd 2023 at 6:47:29 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Some time has passed and after counting the votes The Administrator is now done. Here is the first write-up I have made.It might not be good due to what I listed so yeah.
- The Administrator is the high-ranking member of MORBIUS as he is constantly shrouded in darkness with his mysterious motivations involved. He hired Ruvik to build the STEM system by turning his brain into a living core as a terminal Beacon from the mental hospital. He makes Juli Kidman follow his orders to capture Leslie as a replacement for Ruvik inside of STEM before deciding to kill her multiple times when she disobeys his commands. In the real world, he plans to control the world through Mobius by using Sebastian's daughter Lily as a core to the STEM program for infamous reasons. He then tries to kill him when his usefulness is outlived leading to dozens of MOBIUS employees dead with their heads exploding when he attempts to kill Kidman.
What do you all think?
Edited by Echidna on Jan 23rd 2023 at 10:23:02 AM
I must confess I don't think that writeup captures why he should be on the list....there's not much evil by way of deeds listed there.
Let me see if I can add or expand it more.
EDIT: It's expanded. Do hope I don't miss anything there.
Edited by Echidna on Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:57:43 AM
She/Her
Have some free time from college and looking at the whole discussion concerning Jack. As someone who's seen the film and having learned from experience after my first EP in the new thread, I'd give a weak to Jack. Mainly since the thing with the comedy is that we are laughing with him due to Black Comedy rather than at his expense, kinda like other Laughably Evil CMs, and he's still taken seriously by other characters.
I'll try to pop in and out due to a busier schedule but I'm happy to contribute.
Profile picture by @GCastelini on Twitter. Give her a follow!
Weak to jack.
As already mentioned the guy is a monster, but his lack of redeeming qualities is played for dark comedy, so he's a weak thumbs up.
Edited by LucienRen on Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:02:40 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright time for a reproposal (first half is copied by my original EP)
What is the Work
The Expendables is an action franchise which is a modernised version of 80s action flicks... so lot's of shooting, lot's of blood and very cheesy but ultimately harmless fun. being over the top, the villains are quite nasty as well (there's already a CM for the franchise.) The one I want to propose though is the main baddie from the second film Jean Vilain.
Who is the Jean Vilain and What have they Done?
Jean Vilain is the leader of the group called the Sangs, a gang of mercenaries that cause havoc in Albania and near by regions. Discovering an abandoned Russian mine that apparently has 6 tonnes of pure plutonium, Vilain uses his gang to kidnap men from surrounding villages and forced them to mine it to find the plutonium. When the men get weak or tired, he has them killed to rile fear into the other workers.
After Barney Ross and his crew obtained the map for the mines, Vilain ambushes them at gunpoint, using their new team member, Billy, as hostage. When Barney refuses to give up the map, Vilain has Billy slowly stabbed in front of him, causing Maggie, another member of the team to give it up. Before Vilain goes to leave, he fatally kick the knife into Billy, killing him.
Having the map and buyers willing to pay for the plutonium, Vilain wants to speed up the mining process so he orders his men to start going after the women and children of the surrounding villages. After Vilain gets the plutonium he orders the mine to be destroyed, sealing all the workers inside claiming "No witnesses" and starts to head off with all of the plutonium.
Ambushed at an airport, Vilain buys time by having his men fight Barney and his crew so he could get the plutonium on board the plane and distributed. After a climatic gun fight, Barney finally fights Vilain face to face, with Vilain mocking Billy's death. Barney ultimately wins the fight by stabbing Vilain and decapitating him as proof of his death.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None that I can pick out, Vilain is shamelessly aware of how evil he is, even making his gang's tattoo "the pet of Satan." While you could say he has a friendship with his right hand man Hector, it never leans into full Villainous Friendship. He doesn't seem to have any care for his members, so long as he's able to get the plutonium to sell.
His talk on "respect" just screams to be of A Real Man Is a Killer, so basically empty rhetoric.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Now the first film's CM, Munroe is a nasty bastard as he turned an island into a Banana Republic purely out of greed. Now compared to Vilain's resources of just a mercenary group, Munroe has the backings of The Generalissimo of the island and his military might.
Vilain's treatment of the workers? Nasty but Munroe had workers for his drug operation. Raiding the villages intending on using child and woman slaves? Very nasty as Munroe lacks child labour. Planning to commit mass murder to leave no witnesses? Munroe lacks that final flourish which helps Vilain stand out.
Conrad from the 3rd film is an global arms dealer but lacks any oomph behind those crimes. His two stand out crimes? He shoots non fatally Barney's ally Caesar to hurt him...Vilain murders Billy to teach "respect" so that means nothing and shoots about 10 of his own men in anger because they were proving incompetent. Funnily enough I could see him as a MB?
Final Verdict?
YMMV for a reason so you folks decide.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
No issue to Vilain. BUT
- The Administrator is the high-ranking member of MORBIUS as he is constantly shrouded in darkness with his mysterious motivations involved. He hired Ruvik to build the STEM system by turning his brain into a living core as a terminal Beacon from the mental hospital. He makes Juli Kidman follow his orders to capture Leslie as a replacement for Ruvik inside of STEM before deciding to kill her multiple times when she disobeys his commands. In the real world, he plans to control the world through Mobius by using Sebastian's daughter Lily as a core to the STEM program for infamous reasons. He then tries to kill him when his usefulness is outlived leading to dozens of MOBIUS employees dead with their heads exploding when he attempts to kill Kidman.
If this's all the Administrator does? I'm gonna have to lodge for a cut. Compare to Stefano Valentino:
- Stefano Valentini was a war photographer who became obsessed with capturing the moment of death in his art after photographing a person dying in an explosion. He became a Serial Killer who would mutilate fashion models and use their bodies as his canvas. After successfully tricking MOBIUS's psyche exams into passing him as sane, he was connected to the virtual STEM town of Union. There he continued his murders until Theodore Wallace contacted him with an offer to give him power in exchange for Stefano kidnapping Lily, who was the CORE of the town. After Lily was removed as the CORE, Union became a nightmare hellscape, and Stefano decided that he wanted to keep her for himself and use her power to help him create his art forever. When Sebastian is sent into Union, he finds that Stefano had been murdering MOBIUS operatives who were sent in before him and freezing them in time at the moment of death. Stefano repeatedly tries to kill Sebastian Castellanos, leading to a confrontation at a theater where Stefano detonates explosive collars on dozens of Union citizens, musing to himself that he doesn't know how he'll top this latest piece of art. A psychopath to the end, Stefano sees even his own death as just another masterpiece.
Killing dozens through exploding heads is replicated here, plus everything else.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Anyways I'll try to write up Song!Elliot Ludwig later sense he seemed to get enougn support.
In the mean time, a quick one that Star gave to me…
RWBY:Ice Queendom is a spinoff…ish of the popular webseries RWBY. It is 'canon adjacent', Wich means it might not be canon, but it's something that theoretically could have happened in between volumes 1 and 2. The closest comparison I can think of is those old DBZ flicks Wich aren't canon but are written so that could have happened at some point in the DB timeline, sans a Continuity error or 2.
Sense this is a series it starts with a recap / retelling of the tititular Team RWBY's origins and volume 1. It then veers into its own story involving the 'Nightmare Grimm', who posseses Weiss and forms the tititular 'Ice Queendom' in her mindscape world.
Jacques lacks the pattern he has in the original. And some of his crimes are actually downplayed in this version. In this version of the robot knight fight? Its made clear he was going to call it off once she was clearly losing. So she was in no danger of like, dying if she didn't either forfeit or win.
The Big Bad, the Nightmare has more personality than the average Grimm, but it's still a Grimm who are the definition of Always Chaotic Evil. Plus it's…pretty standard. It sets up a dictatorship in Weiss' mindscape but it's mostly just…having dream people work or locking them up. And not portrayed as horrible as it could be. Other then that it mostly just attacks the heroes and is trying to kill Weiss from within. Nasty but not up to standard, unless I missed something major.
Now…Who is worthy of talking about? Mostly from the 'retelling' part of the show…
Who is Adam Taurus?
Adam is a terrorist and a member of the White Fang organization, and the partner of Blake Belladonna. One day he and Blake were raiding an SDC train, destroying the robotic guards before getting to the cart where the dust was stored. Adam plans to crash the train. Blake points out there were human beings on the train, and Adam dismisses it, saying they were 'Just humans, not Faunus like us'. This finally provokes Blake to leave him, with her going to the next train cart and disconnecting it. Letting her escape to find her own path. When Adam's soldiers meet with him, they ask if they should pursue Blake. But he says not to bother, believing that after seeing the world more, she will see that the White Fang were right.
Even after she leaves him, however, Adam had an impact on her. During the mindscape adventure, Blake infects herself with a second Nightmare to be able to counteract Weiss. And it's shown that Adam was Blake's own 'nightmare'. As the Grimm manifests itself as him to hurt her.
Mitigating factors?
So…He's the most heinous character in IQ, despite his brief screentime. He tries to destroy a train with human workers onboard. And we are shown later that his actions traumatized Blake.
He gets Personality as well, getting plenty of dialogue and showing Fantastic Racism.
And while he let's Blake go? This is soley because he thinks Blake will be convinced Adam's philosophy is correct.
So the big thing I was thinking might be an issue…is how little different he is. As he did the train thing in his first appearance as well. This was the main thing I felt could be a scource of debate…but now that we have done away with the 'needs to be different' criteria for stuff like this? Adam should keep just fine. The write-up will look plenty different anyways. As it will emphasize the train thing specifically and mention a thing specific to this series showing how he traumatized Blake.
Final Verfict?
Its a minor keep, but he's there I think.
Edited by Snoketrope on Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:22:07 AM
The First man
Yes to Vilain, having thought this one through and I do apologize if you felt targeted there yourself Rav. I went by pap's comment and thought he was indicating he'd posted a video trying to help people understand his stance on a character and had gotten flak for it. On the flipside I'd also hate for you to feel you're being uncivil for debating a candidate bro!
The Emperor of Evil!
Now I finally finished this series I been meaning to do for a while, I got a rather nasty costumer. Finally my first proposal for this thread.
What's The Work?
Matt Hatter Chronicles is a British-Canadian-Indian animated series about the titular and his parents moving into his grandfather's movie theater, the Coronet. Unbeknownst to him, the Coronet is secretly a gateway to The Multiverse and his grandfather and his father before him were its guardians. Fighting off the forces of evil, villains from the Coronet that came from movies they were created in, using Life Cells to lock them up within a book called the Chronicles. Alfred went missing after his fight with the greatest villain in the multiverse, trapping each other in an unknown pocket dimension since then. However, it's now up to Matt to take the mantel as the next "Hatter Hero" with help from Roxanna Alexis (Roxie) the Tracker and Gomez, the last of The Keepers (basically holding Multiversal lore and objects).
The series lasted for 4 seasons and had a tv movie called The Rise of Primal. Also despite the Punny Name, neither the character nor the show have anything to do with the Alice in Wonderland.
Who Is Lord Tenoroc?
This weird looking barefooted Phantom of the Opera dressed dude is the most evil and greatest of all villains of the Multiverse, and the master of almost every baddy that the heroes faced. Tenoroc is the Big Bad of the whole series, using his Triple Sphere to summon villains by using the stolen Life Cells he took. Fortunately, Alfred locked him away in a unknown dimension, with the incompetent comic relief gargoyle Craw, but Tenoroc is not done with the multiverse. So he uses the Life Cells to summon villains to do his bidding and wreak havoc across several dimensions. He is also voiced by Kevin Eldon. Oh and his name is supposed to be "Coronet" spelled backwards.
What Has He Done?
In the past, he once became partners with the villain Primal, the first Coronet villain, in finding the Triple Sphere. Once they did, he betrays him and locks him away for countless years, but ends up scarring himself on one of his eyes. Tenoroc was also responsible for putting Carnival City, a dimension full of cyborg children, into a permanent blackout which put the denizens at risk of dying (since they rely on power and electricity to stay alive) and are forced to wear packs to survive. He was also responsible for turning Discordia, land part of the realm known as Harmonia, into a lifeless wasteland and forced the people into living into the Region of Ruins. One day, he stole all the life cells from Alfred Hatter and intends to use them to destroy the entire multiverse and remake it into his own image only to be stopped and locked away with Alfred (as part of his Heroic Sacrifice). Now Tenoroc wasn't done, now he uses villains within the Life Cells to carry out his dirty work all under his own orders unless they face his wrath.
In the start of the series, Tenoroc attempts to snuff all life off the Region of Ruin and every denizen by sending the Black Knight to steal a sacred chalice of light only to be foiled by Matt and his friends. In the second episode, he sends in the Mad Scientist Scorpiotron to drain all the water in the Sea of Sand so he could starve the denizens into submission. In another episode, he summons The Mummy to destroy the multiverse using The Eye of Ra to turn the multiverse into a wasteland. Another scheme of his was using a Graviton Sphere to open a portal and free himself, at the expense that the multiverse sucks within itself and be destroyed.
Yeah Tenoroc has a lot of widespread deeds, usually try to have everything in existence destroyed either by an army of fire breathing drakes, have Merlin enslave people from Harmonia to find a crystal to erase the multiverse and free himself, and tried to pollute the air across the multiverse with toxic gas so he can suffocate everyone to death. Now his other crimes that aren't just omnicidal, he at one point assigned a witch to drain the lifeforce of Alfred Hatter to become stronger. Then he sent Captain Lightning to absorb this Blue Lightning power to him, despite knowing it would kill Captain Lightning but doesn't care.
He also tried turn the rain into acid rain to not only destroy a mystical forest full of life (sapient or otherwise) but the multiverse too. He also tries to destroy the Region of Ruins and Sea of Sands (dimensions full of innocent people) through his minions, and later tried to flood all of Carnival City. He also tries to turn the multiverse into an ice age (starting with one dimension at a time) with his ice themed villainess Zarona. Then tries to once again destroy the mystical forest by killing the Amber Crest Dragon. I could go on and on, he's obviously a pretty bad dude. So that's al.
Mitigating Factors
He's a proud Card-Carrying Villain, a Bad Boss (just the way he treats Craw), with zero remorse or empathy, nor a Freudian Excuse (we don't even know what his backstory is). He does have some comedic moments, but this is not frequent and definitely not distracting as he and his crimes are taken very very seriously. Most of the comedic stems from his lackey, Craw, who's the comedic one. As for agency, no issues: While most of the villains are from movies, we don't know it's the case with Tenoroc due to his mysterious backstory (and it's well establish that some choose to be evil like Jekyll has, can be Affably Evil and some sense of honor). The one time he teams up with Matt against Primal, it's Pragmatic Villainy as Primal is a more powerful and a threat (in context, Primal tries to enter the prison dimension to destroy him). When he was taken cared of, he betrays Matt and tries to kill him.
Heinous Standards
Oh god yes, he's a blatant Omnicidal Maniac through and through, responsible for a lot of evil in the series. He's responsible for a lot of attempted mass murders and destruction of several realms within the multiverse. Most of the bad guys are generic and mostly follow his orders, and Primal (the bad guy of the TV Movie Rise of Primal) flunks the heinous standards to Tenoroc. And his crimes are explicit, mostly the constant attempt at mass omnicide being the most frequent with strong gravitas. There's also the fact he basically tried a citywide mass child murder at two point...
Final Verdict
In my opinion, I think he keeps, but what do you think?
Also to Vilain, I kinda think he has enough flourish and uniqueness to his crimes.
EDIT: You know what, slight to Taurus.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 10:22:51 AM
Professor Gigachad
I guess I will say Vilain in hindsight, but I swear I remember Conrad having stuff like pictures associated with his crimes.
Also Adam and Tenoroc
The Moron
Yes to Teneroc - still reading Vilain, and I don't know whether we should handle this here or on the other thread but yeah, with that all laid out, I don't think the Administrator is bad enough either.
I suppose I can give Adam a as well on technicality, but either way great job laying everything out Snoke!
Teneroc seems as easy and a weaker one to Vilain.
I'm really not seeing Adam at all. Trying to crash the train is so barebones and he even let's Blake go with no strings attached. I want far far more from Adam Taurus before I'm willing to up vote him, especially considering Roman is more destructive than that is the first season.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Teneroc and Vilain
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's more or less my problem as well, the train thing is really not that bad from what I'm reading.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
He didn't pursue her in canon at this point either. He only confronts her again in volume 3 after he was recruited to help with the fall of beacon. This series just expands more on why(He thought she would be back soon anyways) And Roman...stole dust, in the stuff this show adapts. This show does not get into any of Roman's nastier stuff in volume 2.
Edited by Snoketrope on Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:35:44 AM
The First man
to Teneroc, Vilain, and Adam
@Echidna: how many votes did The Administrator have? There should be 5 over ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for a candidate to be approved and I know Lore and I voted but I wonder who else have
Lord Tenoroc
Can we also bring the Admin back here, and go over that again? Likewise, leaning no on Adam. Waiting till he does more. Tenoroc seems an easy yes.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:33:04 AM
Professor Gigachad
Voting time has ended so it needs to go over to the Cleanup thread.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Jean as well.
I counted 4 yes, 2 no and 7 abstain votes after double checking.
Edited by Echidna on Jan 23rd 2023 at 10:41:00 AM
If I may drop my two cents I'm going to say I think people trying to be helpful and post videos so people can get a sense of the character is a kind, useful thing to try and do and there's no need to blast folks for just trying to assist non-viewers in getting a sense of the tone. It's something I've done before and I think we can all expect to be treated respectfully when we're trying to help the thread.