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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11078: Apr 14th 2023 at 1:15:01 AM

[tup]Ryo

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TotemGenitor Bye Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bye
#11079: Apr 14th 2023 at 2:25:39 AM

[tup] Elesh Norn, Doctor J, Dogmatika Maximus, Don Thousand, Talonhoof, Elaine Callaghan, Marchion Ro, Dracula, Yog-Kothag, Richard Sackler, Muerte, Ryo Ogino

[tdown] Fumichika Nejima, The Narrator

My condolences, Geode

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11080: Apr 14th 2023 at 2:40:47 AM

Yes to Ryo.

EDIT: Also, this was in the YMMV. The entry was approved, but the writeup will need de-potholing:

  • Bleach: Ultimate Alien: Baraggan Luisenbairn is the former self-proclaimed God-King of Hueco Mundo, and ruled "his" kingdom with an iron fist until being deposed and enslaved by Sosuke Aizen. Having no loyalty to his boss, Baraggan dreams of killing Aizen and reclaiming his status, and later develops an equally intense grudge against Ben Tennyson. During the battle of Fake Karakura Town, Baraggan gains a new form and goes on a rampage, attempting to destroy the illusory city with one massive attack along with all the defenders. Becoming completely drunk on his new power, Baraggan slaughters the Alien-Hollow hybrids, even laughing at their attempts to protect one another as he does so, before declaring that, after Aizen wipes out the inhabitants of the real Karakura Town to create the Soul Key, he will kill Aizen, seize the Key, and conquer Soul Society before going to Ben's world and killing everyone the boy cares about just out of spite; then capture Harribel and her Fraccione, whom he shares a mutual antipathy with, and force them to serve his army as sex slaves. An omnicidal lunatic who reveled in the idea of inflicting horrible suffering and death upon anyone who damaged his massive and incredibly fragile ego, Baraggan pushed Ben to such a degree that the hero ultimately killed him without hesitation.

Edited by ACW on Apr 14th 2023 at 5:44:02 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. Since: Nov, 2010
Mr
#11081: Apr 14th 2023 at 2:52:48 AM

Can a villain be a complete monster if they are made of evil? I was thinking of suggesting Sonic The Comic Robotnik but wanted to check if being made of evil disqualifies him.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
KingofNightmares Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#11082: Apr 14th 2023 at 3:00:27 AM

Generally, Made of Evil villains can't count since it is in their nature to be evil and they can't be anything else. But creatures of evil can still count is nothing is explicitly saying they can only be evil (Mr. Dark and Trantor come to mind)

—signature not found—
AlicornGaia Adora, the High Priestess from Local sun temple Since: Sep, 2019 Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
Adora, the High Priestess
#11083: Apr 14th 2023 at 3:03:26 AM

Basically, can the Made of Evil character show they can change but then willingly stay evil?

I know for evil races, if enough of such members stop being evil, then yes, the evil race members can count.

"I just need one of you to come here to give your life to the sun god. It will be for the monkey city's glory."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#11085: Apr 14th 2023 at 3:34:51 AM

Dr. Eggman from Sonic the Comic doesn't keep, sadly, and I stand by that. When the Chaos Energy turning him into Robotnik is cleared, he instantly turns back into the good-hearted Dr. Ovi Kintober again, and only reverts when he's horribly corrupted by the Chaos Energy again.

Seriously, Chaos Energy screws up your agency bad in this continuity. If Robotnik counted here I would have done him years ago.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11086: Apr 14th 2023 at 3:43:16 AM

You know what? I've put this off long enough.

What is the work?

"Jersey Breakdown" is the 12th episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit's 15th season. Per the recap's description (which I wrote):

"A teenage girl is discovered to have been sexually abused when she is discovered under the Highline, leading to an investigation which uncovers a trail of corruption into New Jersey."

One of the key players in the corruption is none other than the Hudson County Prosecutor.

Who is Robert "Bobby" Masconi and what has he done?

At first glance a seemingly respectable (if pompous) county prosecutor, Masconi is in fact the shadow partner of nightclub entrepreneur and pimp Perry Cannavaro and the perpetrator of sexual assault against underage employee Claire Wilson.

When he discovers that Claire intends to testify against Perry, Masconi goes behind Perry's back to have Claire arrested for fraud, having her sent to Knollwood Juvenile Facility, an institution where inmates are routinely drugged, assaulted, neglected, and subject to inhumane conditions in the name of "discipline".

Upon further investigation by Sgt. Olivia Benson's SVU squad, Masconi is discovered to be connected to a publicity firm which supposedly caters to Knollwood as its sole client, which is, in fact, a means to launder money which Masconi receives in kickbacks from Knollwood, having extorted Judge Daniel Dolan into sending 90% of the juvenile offenders who come through the latter's chambers to said facility by having him engage with an underage prostitute, in addition to paying off Masconi's cronies. Masconi uses these funds to pay for multiple estates.

After Judge Dolan is confronted, and subsequently commits suicide, Perry decides to reveal the full extent of Masconi's corruption, with Perry noting that Masconi had bought off several judges in addition to Dolan.

Mitigating Factors?

Masconi seems to view his wife (a fellow attorney) as more of an asset than a romantic partner, and likewise uses his delirious mother-in-law to cover for his own illegal activities. He also prevents Claire from testifying against Perry to save his own skin. Otherwise, he's just a greedy, disgusting pervert with a law degree.

Regarding offscreen villainy, we see the traumatic effects of both sexual abuse and harsh imprisonment on Claire, and a brief glimpse of the mistreatment that the Knollwood inmates go through.

We don't get an exact amount of prostitutes, or how many kickbacks he has recieved, but he is stated to have recieved enough kickbacks to own a ski cottage, an estate in the Hamptons, and a condominium in Boca Raton where he keeps his mother-in-law as a patsy for his shady dealings.

Furthermore, we do see several Knollwood inmates, and it's strongly suggested that many of them are there because of Masconi.

As for Claire's experience, she is shown to have been traumatized from being sent to a cell without running water or anything to keep her warm. She mentions the other inmates being routinely drugged.

We also see a picture of a young girl servicing Judge Dolan, which establishes a pattern in addition to all the documentation of the atrocities.

Heinousness (or how bad is he)?

I'm not gonna pretend that Corrupt Bureaucrats, in particular Amoral Attorneys are uncommon in Law & Order. In fact, they are practically a demographic in the franchise. However, of these, only Judge Hilda Marsden has an even remotely comparable MO, inasmuch as she has juvenile offenders who commit minor acts of indecency charged with felonies and sent to facilities meant for sex-offenders who pay her off. Nonetheless, Judge Marsden doesn't facilitate underage prostitution in addition to the kickbacks, but Masconi does.

There are other villains involved in Human Trafficking, notably Tony Damon, who is involved in child pornography, child sex tourism, and false adoption; there is also Johnny Drake, who has his cargo gang-raped, among other atrocities. Masconi is the only candidate that I know of to have both underage prostitution and facilitation of prison abuse under his belt.

Verdict?

Worthy of discussion.


ETA: Updated information.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 14th 2023 at 7:11:32 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11087: Apr 14th 2023 at 3:56:54 AM

I'm inclined to vote yes, but...do we have any idea how many victims he has? The standard for SVU is SO freaking high.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11088: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:01:05 AM

We don't get an exact amount of prostitutes, or how many kickbacks he has recieved, but he is stated to have recieved enough kickbacks to own a ski cottage, an estate in the Hamptons, and a condominium in Boca Raton where he keeps his mother-in-law as a patsy for his shady dealings.

Furthermore, we do see several Knollwood inmates, and it's strongly suggested that many of them are there because of Masconi.

As for Claire's experience, she is shown to have been traumatized from being sent to a cell without running water or anything to keep her warm. She mentions the other inmates being routinely drugged.

[down][down] Oddly enough, nobody else in the episode is sufficiently heinous.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 14th 2023 at 7:08:45 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11089: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:01:49 AM

[tup]Masconi

I think the whole turn send kids to a Hell Hole Prison where he knows they'll get abused is more than enough. It's at least unique.

Edit: [up][up]I admit I'm more interested in the Knowlwood abuse stuff as that's unique for the show.

Edited by miraculous on Apr 14th 2023 at 4:02:53 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11090: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:04:26 AM

I'll...lean yes, cautiously.

So he has Marsden's crimes along with Human Trafficking? Yeesh, seems bad either way.

Do his partners count?

EDIT: Not even Cannavaro? Huh.

Edited by ACW on Apr 14th 2023 at 7:14:24 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11091: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:14:47 AM

I’ll say this much; Masconi has a lot of nerve to abuse his power as prosecutor to have a girl he raped sent to a prison he profits off of regularly.

[up] I kid you not, not even Cannavaro is sufficiently Heinous next to Masconi. I hate to say this, but compared to the likes of Tony Damon, Cannavaro is bog standard if we are talking about Human Trafficking.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 14th 2023 at 7:18:20 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11093: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:22:06 AM

Ah, so with Masconi it's the human trafficking AND the other stuff?

I'll stick with my yes, but VERY cautiously. And even that assumes Claire wasn't the only one Masconi sexually assaulted. If she was, I'm switching to a slight no.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11094: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:31:28 AM

Based on the end of the episode, Masconi's partnership with Cannavaro dates back twenty years, so I'll take that as an indication that Masconi has been predatory before.

"Perry had a lot to say. Turns out he and Masconi were silent partners for 20 years."

In Claire's own words…

"He raped me in the VIP room. It's like he thought I was part of the deal."

If you mean sending survivors of his abuse to prison, I don't know if he does that more than once.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 14th 2023 at 7:36:14 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
TotemGenitor Bye Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11096: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:37:33 AM

Okay, I'm a little unclear. So he has... let's assume several sexual assaults; and sends one of his victims to prison? That can't be it.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11098: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:42:58 AM

Claire is the only juvenile offender at Knollwood who is confirmed to have been victimized by Masconi while working for Perry before Masconi had her sent to Knollwood. Everyone else sent to Knollwood is there because Masconi wants to further line his pockets.

The only reason I thought he was worthy of discussion was the combination of human trafficking, and profiting off of inhumane imprisonment, including that of someone he had directly victimized.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 14th 2023 at 7:44:36 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11099: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:48:13 AM

Hmmm, I'm gonna switch to an abstain. There are worse human traffickers, and profiting off prison is something Hilda apparently also does; the fact that this guy does both, along with sending one of his own victims to prison, is the reason I'm only abstaining instead of downvoting.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11100: Apr 14th 2023 at 4:53:42 AM

I appreciate your position. Thank you for taking the time to vote.

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.

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