Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
ACW:
- Saw Klint Van Zieks killing a corrupt noble, and instead of reporting it, blackmailed him into killing 3 other nobles, including the previous Lord Chief of Justice.
- Dismissed Genshin's suspicion of Klint and causing him to investigate on his own, leading to their duel to the death.
- Manipulated Tobias Gregson and John Wilson into implanting false evidence on Klint's body to blame Genshin for Klint's crimes, saying that Klint was another victim of the professor.
- Planned to give Genshin a false execution only with the condition that he does fall for Klint's crimes and not revealing Klint's last note (because he wasn't able to find it himself).
- Convinced Seishiro Jigoku (Genshin's friend) into helping him by promising a position of power in Japan, and when Genshin was discovered by a student, coerced him into shooting him.
- Formed an organization with Tobias and Asa Shinn so that they would plan and murder anyone who escaped the guilty veredict. Eventually used it only on the cases that Barok Van Zieks prosecuted (16 kills aproximately).
- Wanted to erase evidence of his involvement with those cases so he planned an Assassin exchange, by blackmailing Seishiro in Japan, he would send Asa Shinn to kill John Wilson, and Seishiro would send Kazuma to kill Tobias.
- When he found Kazuma alive with amnesia, he left him with Barok so that he would be used in the assassination later.
- Asigned Kazuma for the prosecution of Tobias murder (with Barok being the accused) and assigned Maria Gorey so that he could have some control on the outcome of the trial.
- Assigned himself to be the judge without the jury later in the case.
- Manipulated the audiance so that they wouldn't punish him for his crimes, saying that the reaper was a positive change for the Judicial system, as well as saying that it would bring the country back to chaos if he revealed how many people of the Judicial system were involved in the crime.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Feb 13th 2023 at 1:30:53 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Mael literally says after his breakdown that he prefers “everything to run smoothly, in the exact manner that I prescribe. Like a well-oiled machine.” That does indicate his true movies is being a Control Freak, not a desire to make London better.
The main thing is whether the escapades are truly non-canon. Because he has what I remember is a pretty unambiguous Pet the Dog, so is there any evidence of the escapades being non-canon?
Edited by MasterN on Feb 13th 2023 at 1:35:28 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
I always thought the escapades were meant to be like the Asinine Attorneys in Spirit of Justice, funny, comedic non-Canon, what if, stuff. Phoenix meeting his ancestor makes no sense in canon for example.
Edited by Klavice on Feb 13th 2023 at 1:41:31 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll LEAN yes on Mael. Dude's definitely heinous enough if nothing else (I think of the current keepers, only phantom and Ga'ran probably have more).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright since he was proposed by a Ban Evader here's a relitigation for Octomus. Consider this one for Valentines Day. How does this guy link to that? Eh he's red and we love ban-evaders.
What is the work?
Power Rangers Mystic Force is well a series within the Power Rangers Franchise. Pitting 5 teenagers who end up discovering a hidden world beyond the human realm, they soon discover that the fate of both the human and magical realms are at risk of being overrun by the forces of the Underworld. Throwing away the alien gimmick, the Monsters of the Week are all based on mythological creatures. And who's our ultamite monster of the series? The true Big Bad Octomus The Master, who's based on the Eldritch Abomination of Lovecraft.
Who is Octomus and what has he done?
Octomus is the leader of the Underworld who 20 years ago prior to the story had lead his forces onto the magical realms to destroy them but was stopped by the ranger's predecessors. Being sealed away by the warrior Leanbow, Octomus corrupts him and twists the noble warrior into the dangerous foe Koragg. While the forces of the Underworld are trapped within it, Octomus is buried at the very bottom and can only communicate with his armies.
After briefly escaping the underworld at the end of the second arc, Koragg reseals him into the underworld where the last Arc Villain, The Ten Terror's aim to release him from his new prison, which is within Koragg himself. Sculpin, the leader of the Terrors releases Octomus from Koragg, in which his form is a blazing ball of energy in which Octomus chooses one of the Terrors, Matoombo to be his vessel for him to escape. Octomus ends up escaping by bursting out of Matoombo.
Free at last, Octomus really gets to showcase how nasty he really is. Octomus first corrupts the current Red Ranger, Nick Russel into a new version of Koragg and has him attack the magical settlement of Rootcore. While that's going on, Octomus also has the last 2 Terrors, Sculpin and Black Lance go on a destructive rampage within the human city of Briarwood to draw out the rangers while Octomus heads to the Mystic Palace and seemingly kills the Mystic Mother (who's Rita Repulsa?)
When Leanbow and Daggeron investigate the carnage, Octomus kills them both and drops their bodies in front of the rangers. Octomus then warps the rangers to the future he creates with the planet left as a barren husk and with all life wiped out and the universe left in darkness. The rangers manage to revert the timeline and defeat the demonic bastard by overloading him with their magic which causes him to erupt and explode.
Mitigating Features or Freudian Excuse?
Freudian Excuse... no the power rangers version of Nyarlathotep doesn't have a Freudian Excuse.
Well might as well address the possible factors.
Octomus spares Koragg when he gets put on trial within the second arc. Not an issue since the guy who orchestrated it, Imperious, is an attempted Starscream and Octomus knows that because Koragg's under his thumb, his loyalty is there to release him. And when he gets released, he murders Koragg in his original uncorrupted form Leanbow. Pragmatic Villainy at the time since Octomus can't really do much at the moment.
His reaction to Sculpin's death. When informed that by the Terror Itassis, he exclaims "What?!"... and that's it.
Agency isn't an issue since monsters can be good and perform a Heel–Face Turn.
GDV? Haha no, Octomus runs on For the Evulz and is a bombastically hammy sadist.
Heinous Standard?
His warped future is a dead universe. Now do they imply life gets wiped out? Octomus says this when he warps the rangers to the dead future.
Xander (Green Ranger): "What could you possibly gain from destroying our world?"
Octomus: "Your world is now my world! Want to see what my world would look like?"
(The Master then warps the planet, wiping out all life, leaving it a barren husk)
Madison (Blue Ranger): "So dark..."
Octomus: "This is the future of your world. There is no purpose for your species. Once I eat your magic, you will become apart of the dust that I will walk upon. That will be your one and only purpose!"
Add onto leading the previous war, corruption and being a Hero Killer we've got one of the worst in the franchise.
Final Verdict?
Easy Keeper
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 13th 2023 at 9:51:23 AM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Not the Eye
Happy yes to Octomus.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Easy yes to Octomus.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Octomus.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
The escapade from where his Pet the Dog moment comes from is about Barok having a dream about Herlock being accused for a murder in a court, with Tobias being revealed of being the culprit of killing a bird accidently. He awakes and then has a discussion about the bird, revealing that the bird did have an accident but came out okay from it.
The reason why Stronghart asked for Tobias to take care of her is because he usually puts them in the background of his office to fly whenever he makes a grand statement to make it look dramatic.
Barok does imply that this is before having his first trial with Naruhodo, but i am still not sure. This all sounds silly, and the fact that it's not like an actual DLC case like for example the ones from Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice leads me to believe that it's too shaky to be considered. And even if it were true, it's a weird case where he cares for a bird to make him look more pompus and grandiose. It's an ambiguous situation at best for me.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Feb 13th 2023 at 2:09:46 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
Goku Black
Easy yes to Ocotomus. Probably the worst bad guy in the franchise television section in terms of scale.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 13th 2023 at 2:14:52 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Easy yes to Octomus.
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Easy yes to Octomus
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Kunpaetku, Stronghart, love, and Octomus
(Von Haynau anyone?)
Edited by OrrorSANESS on Feb 13th 2023 at 2:29:46 AM
Easy yes to Octomus
Yes to Trofim Sarkov and Octomus
Edited by Silverblade2 on Feb 13th 2023 at 11:36:06 AM
Caesar
Yes to Octomus
I have to abstain on Haynau, the heinous standard sounds very high.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Octomus
Yes to Octomus. No clue on Haynau.
Just call me Solemn.
And an Easy, Happy, Big, Hearty Yes to Octomus.
...Wait, that's not my usual formatting? Then to Octomus.
I can imagine a system where an "Easy yes" or "Happy yes" would be worth two upvotes, but I can see how easily (no pun intended) that could be abused.
Edited by ShootingStar7X on Feb 13th 2023 at 3:12:00 AM
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Octomus the Master.
Also, Orror, I respectfully suggest that you give a more detailed analysis on the villains and their actions, and which actions make your candidate unique.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 13th 2023 at 6:36:21 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Octomus.
to Octomus
Okay I finished watching the first five seasons of Castle (I intend to watch the rest of the series) and I may have found a candidate worth discussing so let us talk about it.
What’s The Work?
Castle is an American Crime Mystery show that stars Nathan Fillion as the titular crime novelist, Richard Castle where he works with NYPD homicide detective Kate Beckett in solving murders together.
This candidate shows up in the Season 5 episode, “Scared to Death”, where Castle and Beckett investigates a series of murders who where the victims were scared to death after watching an alleged haunted film. Now the film is revealed not to be haunted and someone was murdering these people, named Amanda, though she doesn’t count due to wanting to avenge her father’s death, but her predecessor is a different story, Nigel Malloy.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Nigel Malloy was a feared Serial Killer known as The Grim Reaper whose MO consists of finding women and torture them to death. Nigel’s favorite method of torturing his victims is branding their bodies with unusual symbols, and would constantly misled authorities pursuing him, causing them to “run in circles” deciding to arrest a mentally ill man named David Collier for Nigel’s first murder and coercing a group of people to declare Collier the killer.
Collier killed himself three days later because of Nigel’s action, though Nigel knew but didn’t care at all and go on to brand, torture, and murder five more women, while forcing and manipulating his mentally ill brother Leopold Malloy into helping him commit these horrific murders.
Nigel was eventually arrested and be given the death penalty for all of these murders while Leopold would have a mental breakdown be committed to a psychiatric ward, however before Nigel was executed a made a Dying Curse, saying that his death will not end his killing spree and will continue to kill in spirit and after his execution his body disappeared.
Nigel would be proven right in the end and two more people connected to Nigel’s killing spree would end up murdered, just as Nigel intended. The murder here turns out to be Amanda whose seeking revenge on the witnesses who accused her father David of Nigel’s murders which led to his suicide. Luckily Castle and Beckett were able to stop Amanda from killing the third witness thus ending Nigel’s legacy for good.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualties?
Nigel isn’t given a reason why he’s been torturing and mutilating women to death other than sadism and prove his superiority over the cops trying to arrest him, thus his victims bodies contained many unusual symbols that confused the cops and in the video shown in the episode before he was executed, he displays his personality of a sadistic murderer who show no remorse for all the women he killed claiming that his spirit will go on and more people will die because of his actions.
He also never showed any love or care for his brother Leopold only viewing him as a tool to help him commit his murders using Leopold’s mental illness to manipulate him into doing what he wanted and showed no concern that Leopold was committed to a mental asylum because of his actions. Hell knowing Leopold’s mental instability, Nigel probably expected Leopold to carry on his legacy of killing more people, basically viewed Leopold as nothing more than at a tool to murder people.
Heinousness
While he already have 4 approved CMs, one of whom includes a Serial Killer that like Nigel goes after women, I think Nigel is able to stand out in that unlike Van Holtzman whose been killing women for 30 years, Nigel has a much shorter timespan and isn’t a doctor and was killed before the start of this episode so he had less resources. Still with what Nigel had to work with in his limited screen time and resources, he was able to kill half a dozen women and would horrifically torture and brand them, and was intending for more people to die after he's been kill (though he expected his brother to kill, but Amanda worked just as well for Nigel).
Also Nigel took advantaged of people suffering from mental illness for his own benefit, such as letting a innocent man take the fall for his first murder which led to David killing himself and his daughter becoming a murderer of two people herself, and manipulating his mentally ill brother into becoming an accomplice to his murders before Leopold was committed. Altogether, Nigel was responsible for the deaths of nine people Altogether, Amanda becoming a murderer, and ruining the life of his own brother for Nigel's own selfish gain, so yeah I think he could stand out.
Final Verdict?
I’ll leave it to you guys to decide.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Castle is the name of the show. The name of my candidate is Nigel Malloy
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 13th 2023 at 6:52:32 AM
Castle, Nigel, and Malloy
Thank you SkyCat32 for helping me here!
Edited by OrrorSANESS on Feb 13th 2023 at 3:59:39 AM
I think Malloy probably does enough. I say .
I remember how Amanda was defeated in that episode, she's about to kill the third witness with the electrical device that'll essentially petrify him and Castle breaks some kind of glass bottle over her head. Haha. That made me laugh out loud when it happened. Also G (~Tropers/G-Editor), I've been through the show twice as is, so feel free to use me.
Last time I watched was Fall 2016 though I think.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah. Castle is the name of the show and main character.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 13th 2023 at 3:57:45 AM
Yes to Zamasu, Show!Verger and Sarkov.
Close enough for Dr. Balltaker: